Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[delirious]

Here is Strong's on Matthew 13:6

13:6 And 1161 when the sun 2246 was up 393 5660, they were scorched 2739 5681; and 2532 because 1223 they had 2192 5721 no 3361 root 4491, they withered away 35835681.


And here is the definition of word 3361 which is the word no here.
Word: mh

Pronounce: may

Strongs Number: G3361

Orig: a primary particle of qualified negation (whereas 3756 expresses an absolute denial); (adverb) not, (conjunction) lest; also (as an interrogative implying a negative answer (whereas 3756 expects an affirmative one)) whether:--any but (that), X forbear, + God forbid, + lack, lest, neither, never, no (X wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without. Often used in compounds in substantially the same relations. See also 3362, 3363, 3364, 3372, 3373, 3375, 3378. G3756 G3363 G3372 G3375

Use:

Heb Strong:

1. 1) no, not lest

So guess what? The word NO actually means NO!

The idea in the Greek is that there is no depth to the root/soil. Not that there is no root! You are just pulling Greek words from your concordance out of context and not capturing the idea. I know what the words by themselves mean but you are not taking the whole sentence at its idea.

The NASB translators got the translation correct. If you look at the parralels in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8 the idea is that the soil/root is shallow. Not that it is non-existant!!! It has no depth to the root. Any plant that wants to get moisture and live has to dig its roots down deep. Shallow/rocky soil has no firm/established roots. It still has a root! How did "life spring up" if it has no root?

You are still making the unwarranted assumption that Jesus is the root because that is just what comes to your mind. The parable makes no such distinction.

 

[delirious]

If you did trst God alone. You would trust him to keep his promises.

The fact you think you can lose your salvation proves you do nto trust Christ. Your trust is in your self and your ability to do whatever you think must be done to MAINTAIN your salvation.

Christ maintains me and does everything for me through my faith. I trust in Him alone and not myself. You are required to keep trusting Christ or He does not keep you He keeps you through your faith. The second soil in the parable of the sower shows this.

Requiring someone to keep believing is bibilcial. I can give you 80 passages that prove it. But we obviously disagree. It's all good.

 

[preacher4truth]

The idea in the Greek is that there is no depth to the root/soil. Not that there is no root! You are just pulling Greek words from your concordance out of context and not capturing the idea. I know what the words by themselves mean but you are not taking the whole sentence at its idea.

The NASB translators got the translation correct. If you look at the parralels in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8 the idea is that the soil/root is shallow. Not that it is non-existant!!! It has no depth to the root. Any plant that wants to get moisture and live has to dig its roots down deep. Shallow/rocky soil has no firm/established roots. It still has a root! How did "life spring up" if it has no root?

You are still making the unwarranted assumption that Jesus is the root because that is just what comes to your mind. The parable makes no such distinction.

Sigh...the word is what is taking root, or not, not the person, not their salvation. It cannot do so on rocky ground &c which is descriptive of the state of the person. In this instance it shows the person as unregenerate, but, it is a parable to make a point.

No one in these parables lost salvation, as bad as you want that to take place.

 

[theanointedsinner]

*snoring loudly* zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[delirious]

So, you do admit you do sin (WE ALL DO JUST SAYING)?

And when you do sin, you feel either bad, guilty, and subconsciously you want to be free of that feeling (this is the Holy Spirit within you working)?

But, if you came to a point in your life where you just stopped asking for forgiveness and kept sinning, does the promise God made concerning your ETERNAL SALVATION still stand?

No. Hebrews 10: 26 says, "if we go on sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins."

I have heard eternal security people try to come up with a cute explanation for this. They will say, "Everybody sins willfully! You did it because you wanted to." That is true as James 1: 12 points out but that is not what the author is saying in Hebrews 10: 26.

He is saying that if you turn away from Christ you will perish. He evens says in Hebrews 10:29 that this person was once sanctified. That means they could only have been a real believer. I have heard this verse also twisted by OSAS or Calvinists to say they weren't really saved but the verse tells you they were sanctified. This is a denial of what Scripture is saying by the OSAS/Calvinist.

To answer your question, I feel horrible when I sin. Only Christ's life in me can give me the victory. All true Christians feel this way when they sin. Yes, the Spirit is at work. Romans 8: 23 "we groan inwardly awaiting the redemption of our bodies" so we can be free from this body of death/flesh.

But the Spirit helps and gives life to our flesh as Romans 8 talks about.

 

[rlm68]

OK THEN!!


This is my conclusion to OSAS:


What I am getting at is the OSAS is based on a CONDITION.

That condition is YOU the BELIEVER keeps seeking forgiveness for all sins and wrongdoings to remain in that ETERNAL SALVATION PROMISE!!

So, it boils down to not what God is doing or promised, it boils down to you the believer must keep the faith and continually seek forgiveness if you sin until you die or are part of the second coming!!


So in theory, until people actually understand this loose term OSAS and the actual condition to it, it is NONSENSE TERM!!

Basically,

WHEN WE SIN, WHY DO WE THEN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS?

To remain in the CONDITION of ETERNAL SALVATION.

So, we do believe our sins we commit and do not ask forgiveness for WILL KNOCK US OUT OF THIS CONDITION.

This is why we ask for FORGIVENESS when we sin!!

So, OSAS is a really stupid and bad choice of a term concerning salvation.

WHY?

It has a CONDITION TO IT!!

And you the believer ARE THE CONDITION to it.

Your OBEDIENCE to seek forgiveness is the condition.

And why do we ask for forgiveness?

TO REMAIN SAVED!!


ONCE SAVED means you only do it ONCE!!
Seeking forgiveness can be 100 times per day (just tossing a number here).
THIS MEANS 100 TIMES you renewed YOUR ONCE SAVED CONDITION.

So the term is idiotic ONCE SAVED when we still have to ask for forgiveness daily.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK THEN!!


This is my conclusion to OSAS:


What I am getting at is the OSAS is based on a CONDITION.

That condition is YOU the BELIEVER keeps seeking forgiveness for all sins and wrongdoings to remain in that ETERNAL SALVATION PROMISE!!

So, it boils down to not what God is doing or promised, it boils down to you the believer must keep the faith and continually seek forgiveness if you sin until you die or are part of the second coming!!


So in theory, until people actually understand this loose term OSAS and the actual condition to it, it is NONSENSE TERM!!

I have a Gods promise

OSAS is based on Gods promises. It is a condition, not a belief. People make it a belief only because they do not want to believe it.

1. I give you eternal life, and you will never perish
2. You will never hinger or thirst, Live forever, Never die, and I will raise you on the last day, oh, and I will never lose anyone
3. Whever believes is not condemned
4. The saved are justified or made righteous. And this justification is by grace (free)
5. We HAVE eternal life, and and John wrote us a whole book so we KNOW WE HAVE IT
6. We have the seal of the spirit as a pledge, given the moment our belief turns to faith.
7. Whoever calls out on the name of Christ is saved.

I can go on and on and on.

Saying OSAS is a lose term is honestly quite sad in my view,

 

[theanointedsinner]

the death of self-righteousness
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-death-of-self-righteousness.180470/

 

[UnderGrace]

This sounds all tooo familiar

Christ maintains me and does everything for me through my faith. I trust in Him alone and not myself. You are required to keep trusting Christ or He does not keep you He keeps you through your faith. The second soil in the parable of the sower shows this.

Requiring someone to keep believing is bibilcial. I can give you 80 passages that prove it. But we obviously disagree. It's all good.

 

[theanointedsinner]

This sounds all tooo familiar

hi grace

 

[preacher4truth]

No. Hebrews 10: 26 says, "if we go on sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins."

By your misinterpretation of the text everyone is going to hell.

What do you think "no more sacrifice for sins" means bro? It isn't speaking of Christ, they cannot return to offering up sacrifices as Christ is the eternal one time sacrifice.

Man, you're on a rampage to distort all Scripture, yes?

 

[rlm68]

I have a Gods promise

OSAS is based on Gods promises. It is a condition, not a belief. People make it a belief only because they do not want to believe it.

1. I give you eternal life, and you will never perish
2. You will never hinger or thirst, Live forever, Never die, and I will raise you on the last day, oh, and I will never lose anyone
3. Whever believes is not condemned
4. The saved are justified or made righteous. And this justification is by grace (free)
5. We HAVE eternal life, and and John wrote us a whole book so we KNOW WE HAVE IT
6. We have the seal of the spirit as a pledge, given the moment our belief turns to faith.
7. Whoever calls out on the name of Christ is saved.

I can go on and on and on.

Saying OSAS is a lose term is honestly quite sad in my view,

I HAVE GOD'S PROMISE AS WELL.

But if I do not ask for forgiveness when I SIN, it doesn't matter what God promised.

 

[preacher4truth]

Christ maintains me and does everything for me through my faith. I trust in Him alone and not myself. You are required to keep trusting Christ or He does not keep you He keeps you through your faith. The second soil in the parable of the sower shows this.

Requiring someone to keep believing is bibilcial. I can give you 80 passages that prove it. But we obviously disagree. It's all good.

Ralph~ ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ maintains me and does everything for me through my faith. I trust in Him alone and not myself. You are required to keep trusting Christ or He does not keep you He keeps you through your faith. The second soil in the parable of the sower shows this.

Requiring someone to keep believing is bibilcial. I can give you 80 passages that prove it. But we obviously disagree. It's all good.

Give me one reason one would fail to continue trusting in Christ. And go back to the way they were pre salvation, before they humbled themselves at the point of the cross. Because GOD convincted them of their sin, Their condemnation, and their just punishment, and showed them he was th ONLY WAY, and they were completely convinced.

THEN God not only saved them, But gave them his spirit. Who began a good work in them. And started that great work, which changed many things, including the way they think, their sins all of a sudden because no fun. And their eyes were opened to many truths about god. To all of a sudden go back.

How do you go from being completely convinced to again outright rejecting completely when God proved himself to be true? And you recieved him in that truth

And give examples. And show in these examples how someone when from pure faith to unbelief. (

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I HAVE GOD'S PROMISE AS WELL.

But if I do not ask for forgiveness when I SIN, it doesn't matter what God promised.

So you have to do the work of asking forgiveness, even though it is not possible to do this for every sin, or you lost the right to be saved?

Ie, so grace is out the door. We are saved by works?

 

[Sketch]

The bible is clear on salvation.....it is spoken of in all three tenses....and the PERFECT/AORIST tense verbs applied = a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION

John said these things are written that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

and notice the verb tenses of the following...

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE (PAST TENSE) but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US (PAST TENSE)

Salvation/ETERNAL LIFE is current POSSESSION of all who have

a. BELIEVED the CORRECT message of salvation
b. CONFESSED said belief into the correct message of salvation

Amen to that. Thanks.

So, is there any way that we can undo what only God can do in the first place? (beware: trick question)

 

[Sketch]

PAUL had the same issues...read Romans 3:8..........concerning the bolded above....

That's good. I'll post that so readers don't have to look it up.

Romans 3:8
Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—
“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

 

[rlm68]

So you have to do the work of asking forgiveness, even though it is not possible to do this for every sin, or you lost the right to be saved?

Ie, so grace is out the door. We are saved by works?

Do you know why there even is a term called GRACE?
Because God had MERCY!!
Which means, GRACE is a temporary condition until Christ returns which is for WAR!!

God ain't letting us get by with anything, He just AIN'T KILLING us like He did the Hebrews and brought suffering upon the Jews. We STILL need to be SINLESS.

You can't be full of sin and still have the Holy Spirit of Yahweh in you!!
The only way the Holy Spirit remains in you is by you ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS to remain SINLESS!!
The reason you know your sin is GUILTY, because the Holy Spirit speaks to your CONSCIOUSNESS and makes you aware that GOD's Spirit and your sin CANNOT ABIDE TOGETHER!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. Hebrews 10: 26 says, "if we go on sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins."

I have heard eternal security people try to come up with a cute explanation for this. They will say, "Everybody sins willfully! You did it because you wanted to." That is true as James 1: 12 points out but that is not what the author is saying in Hebrews 10: 26.

He is saying that if you turn away from Christ you will perish. He evens says in Hebrews 10:29 that this person was once sanctified. That means they could only have been a real believer. I have heard this verse also twisted by OSAS or Calvinists to say they weren't really saved but the verse tells you they were sanctified. This is a denial of what Scripture is saying by the OSAS/Calvinist.

To answer your question, I feel horrible when I sin. Only Christ's life in me can give me the victory. All true Christians feel this way when they sin. Yes, the Spirit is at work. Romans 8: 23 "we groan inwardly awaiting the redemption of our bodies" so we can be free from this body of death/flesh.

But the Spirit helps and gives life to our flesh as Romans 8 talks about.

1 John 3: Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

One should determine when studying scripture when fake believers are spoken of, and when true children of God are spoken of.

Hebrews is written concerning jews attacking new believers, and trying to install law to grace.

Willful sin is ongoing lifestyl of sin, which as john said, is IMPOSSIBLE for a true believer to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you know why there even is a term called GRACE?
Because God had MERCY!!
Which means, GRACE is a temporary condition until Christ returns which is for WAR!!

God ain't letting us get by with anything, He just AIN'T KILLING us like He did the Hebrews and brought suffering upon the Jews. We STILL need to be SINLESS.

You can't be full of sin and still have the Holy Spirit of Yahweh in you!!
The only way the Holy Spirit remains in you is by you ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS to remain SINLESS!!
The reason you know your sin is GUILTY, because the Holy Spirit speaks to your CONSCIOUSNESS and makes you aware that GOD's Spirit and your sin CANNOT ABIDE TOGETHER!!

Grace means something is given to people who do not earn it. It means, I give you this gift out of mercy or because I love you.

It can not be earned,
If one has to do work in order to recieve something, it is NOT OF GRACE.

A child of God can not be ful of sin. John already showed that.

It appears to me you need to study the books of john, I would suggest start wiht the gospel. And then move to his three epistles.

God can not say I give you this gift, I paid for it wiht my own blood. And there is no way you coudl ever earn it to begin with, Then tell you you have to earn it by doing something to keep it.

Thats not grace.