Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[dcontroversal]

Did you notice your analogy has a hole in it?

If you take teh mark of the beast, you are DOOMED, there is no repentance out of it. Its over.
But how come if you got the seal of God (like the people you mentioned in Rev) it can be gotten rid of?

It cannot be undone....we are sealed until when....

a. we sin
b. we have a moment of weakness and lose faith
c. we fail

NOPE....UNTIL the day of redemption...there is NOT ONE VERSE in context that states we are UNSEALED....and the gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE<---ALL of the salvation losers must toss this word into the trash with the promises of JESUS to teach or believe a salvation that can be lost

 

[preacher4truth]

Stop saying I am erecting a strawman when I am not.

You erected a straw man.

And you know it.

Jesus Himself says they really believe.

Nope, you're bearing false witness, he never said that. You're adding to Scripture.

You are the one eisegeting. You are denying what the Scripture says because it disproves Unconditional Election and you must deny it to preserve your system.

Now you're onto Unconditional Election? Did you elect yourself?

If you look at all 3 accounts in the synoptics about the parable of the sower it says "life springs up".

No, the text doesn't say "life springs up." You're saying that, not the text.

So if you keep misquoting me I will just quit talking to you. It is you who are denying what the Scripture says to try and preserve your Calvinism.

I've not misquoted you. You're still talking about Calvinism? Wow.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have misquoted NEITHER. You picked a translation that tries to fit your works doctrine. ALL these translations say NO ROOT. I will post Strong's Concordance as well, stating NO ROOT. But I'm glad you recognize that JESUS is the Root.

New International Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

English Standard Version
but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.

Berean Study Bible
But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Berean Literal Bible
And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.

New American Standard Bible
"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.

International Standard Version
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. Since they did not have any roots, they dried up.

New Heart English Bible
But when the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But when the sun rose, it became hot, and because there were no roots, it dried up

New American Standard 1977
“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Jubilee Bible 2000
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James 2000 Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American King James Version
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American Standard Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away.

Darby Bible Translation
but when the sun rose they were burned up, and because of not having [any] root were dried up;

English Revised Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had not root, they withered.

Weymouth New Testament
but when the sun is risen, it is scorched by the heat, and through having no root it withers up.

World English Bible
When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Young's Literal Translation
and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered,

SUCH are the ways of the workers for, sinless perfectionists and Cainologists.........very, very deceptive......

 

[Sketch]

… I’m writing this post because I am concerned about a dangerous and false doctrine that permeates the Christian church.

It is the doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” or “Eternal Security”. This doctrine teaches that once a person believes in Jesus, even if it is just for one moment in time, that person is saved forever. THIS IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY CONTINUE BELIEVING OR ARE REPENTANT.

I believe that the Bible does not teach this but most Christian churches are teaching this today. ...

Is this supposed to be news? Like a new discovery? This debate has been around for quite a while.
And frankly, I think there is error on both sides of the debate.

The term "OSAS" is a derogatory term used against those who believe we are secure in our salvation.
And I have never met anyone who believes that eternal security is a license to sin.

Those against the so-called "OSAS" make inaccurate statements/accusations against the other side.
Those who are supposedly "OSAS" don't call them selves that. So, how can there be any such "doctrine of OSAS"?
And some of those who are against "OSAS" don't even believe you can be saved in the here and now.
So, why should they be worried that someone loses something they claim cannot be had in the first place?

 

[preacher4truth]

I have misquoted NEITHER. You picked a translation that tries to fit your works doctrine. ALL these translations say NO ROOT. I will post Strong's Concordance as well, stating NO ROOT. But I'm glad you recognize that JESUS is the Root.

New International Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

English Standard Version
but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.

Berean Study Bible
But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Berean Literal Bible
And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.

New American Standard Bible
"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.

International Standard Version
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. Since they did not have any roots, they dried up.

New Heart English Bible
But when the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But when the sun rose, it became hot, and because there were no roots, it dried up

New American Standard 1977
“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Jubilee Bible 2000
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James 2000 Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American King James Version
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American Standard Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away.

Darby Bible Translation
but when the sun rose they were burned up, and because of not having [any] root were dried up;

English Revised Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had not root, they withered.

Weymouth New Testament
but when the sun is risen, it is scorched by the heat, and through having no root it withers up.

World English Bible
When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Young's Literal Translation
and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered,

You forgot one:

Delirious' Eisegetical Translation:

"They REALLY believed and LOST their SALVATION!!! AARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Evil Calvinists!!!"

 

[dcontroversal]

Is this supposed to be news? Like a new discovery? This debate has been around for quite a while.
And frankly, I think there is error on both sides of the debate.

The term "OSAS" is a derogatory term used against those who believe we are secure in our salvation.
And I have never met anyone who believes that eternal security is a license to sin.

Those against the so-called "OSAS" make inaccurate statements/accusations against the other side.
Those who are supposedly "OSAS" don't call them selves that. So, how can there be any such "doctrine of OSAS"?
And some of those who are against "OSAS" don't even believe you can be saved in the here and now.
So, why should they be worried that someone loses something they claim cannot be had in the first place?

PAUL had the same issues...read Romans 3:8..........concerning the bolded above....

 

[PennEd]

You have misquoted the passage about the second soil. It does not say in the original Greek that they have "no root" as you claim. The NASB translation gets it correct when it translates it properly by saying they have "no firm root".

The idea in the Greek is that there is no depth to the root. They have a root but because their heart is bad (rocky soil) it has no depth to their root. Their heart is shallow.

You are also misquoting 1 John 2: 19. That passage is about false teachers in the Christian church when you look at the context. You are trying to make that passage say that it is a reference to ALL people who leave the faith that they somehow were not real Christians after all.

SO THE SECOND SOIL DOES HAVE A ROOT just like it says in the Greek and you made the unwarranted assumption that Jesus was the root which the parable of the sower never says either.

Here is Strong's on Matthew 13:6

13:6 And 1161 when the sun 2246 was up 393 5660, they were scorched 2739 5681; and 2532 because 1223 they had 2192 5721 no 3361 root 4491, they withered away 35835681.


And here is the definition of word 3361 which is the word no here.
Word: mh

Pronounce: may

Strongs Number: G3361

Orig: a primary particle of qualified negation (whereas 3756 expresses an absolute denial); (adverb) not, (conjunction) lest; also (as an interrogative implying a negative answer (whereas 3756 expects an affirmative one)) whether:--any but (that), X forbear, + God forbid, + lack, lest, neither, never, no (X wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without. Often used in compounds in substantially the same relations. See also 3362, 3363, 3364, 3372, 3373, 3375, 3378. G3756 G3363 G3372 G3375

Use:

Heb Strong:

1. 1) no, not lest

So guess what? The word NO actually means NO!

 

[preacher4truth]

Here is Strong's on Matthew 13:6

13:6 And 1161 when the sun 2246 was up 393 5660, they were scorched 2739 5681; and 2532 because 1223 they had 2192 5721 no 3361 root 4491, they withered away 35835681.


And here is the definition of word 3361 which is the word no here.
Word: mh

Pronounce: may

Strongs Number: G3361

Orig: a primary particle of qualified negation (whereas 3756 expresses an absolute denial); (adverb) not, (conjunction) lest; also (as an interrogative implying a negative answer (whereas 3756 expects an affirmative one)) whether:--any but (that), X forbear, + God forbid, + lack, lest, neither, never, no (X wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without. Often used in compounds in substantially the same relations. See also 3362, 3363, 3364, 3372, 3373, 3375, 3378. G3756 G3363 G3372 G3375

Use:

Heb Strong:

1. 1) no, not lest

So guess what? The word NO actually means NO!

I mean, enough with the pesky facts, OK?

 

[PennEd]

I mean, enough with the pesky facts, OK?

This guys 1000s of hours of study is crashing to pieces! I'd be upset if I were him too.

But I truly hope after the dust settles the Lord will reveal his error and he would believe.

 

[preacher4truth]

This guys 1000s of hours of study is crashing to pieces! I'd be upset if I were him too.

But I truly hope after the dust settles the Lord will reveal his error and he would believe.

Yes, I hope so too.

Good checks and balances are needed, not just me and my Bible all alone "doctrines."

 

[delirious]

Context and not one states you will lose salvation......but hey....I fully expect you to ride your religion all the way to the plenteous in number group....

I trust in Christ alone to save me. He is my righteousness, my salvation, my propitiation, my life. That statement alone is evidence of my Faith in Him alone.

You offered no argumentation about the 80 passages I mentioned because you don't have any. The Scripture says explicitly you must keep trusting Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

I trust in Christ alone to save me. He is my righteousness, my salvation, my propitiation, my life. That statement alone is evidence of my Faith in Him alone.

You offered no argumentation about the 80 passages I mentioned because you don't have any. The Scripture says explicitly you must keep trusting Christ.

So, Jesus gave you a chance to be saved, or he saved you, and the rest is up to you? You conflate descriptive texts with prescriptive texts. All the elect keep trusting Christ bro. Sorry if using the word elect offends you, it's not Calvinism, it's Bible.

 

[rlm68]

Let me help

I believe when god says I HAVE eternal life, he meant it, he is trustworthy in this statement

I believe when gid said i will never hunger, never thirst, never die, live forever, be risen by him, and as long as he lives, i willlive also, and he is trustworthy to keep this promise

I believe when paul said christ took what was contrary to me, against me, and took it out of the way nailing it to cross.

I believe all these promises and many more

If you want to call it eternal security or OSAS, feel free, but know, i just believe what god said as truthn and as john said, the knowledhe i HAVE eternal life, is the basis for my faith to continue to be

Very Good response!!

Now within your security of eternal life because God promised us that, do you feel you can sin and need no reason to ask God for forgiveness even if it caused another believer to question God or to bring doubt concerning God, by forgetting the fact that sin is against God even through GRACE?

If you knowingly sin, based upon your walk in God while being full of God's Holy Spirit, do you feel it necessary to ask God to forgive you of your sins?

And if so, is it due to the need because consciously you want to be pure before God, or because you know sin separates us from God which can lead to eventual eternal damnation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have noticed how every single person that has responded to this thread so far has either:

1) Tried to hijack the thread to another topic
2) Offered no argumentation from Scripture to refute the claims of my post where I used Scripture. This is what you did in your response and is purely an emotional argument that has no validity because it is not based on any argumentation from Scripture. Just your opinions.
3) Misquoted Scripture
4) Hit the thumbs down or X for disagree without any argumentation from Scripture. More proof of an emotional reaction when a person has no argument.

And to answer your assumption in your quote, it is not "earning your salvation" to require someone to continue to believe in Christ. That is bad logic.

Dude, The topic is over done. You want answers and scripture to prove you wrong? Look at the “not by works” thread and many other threads which are already opened.

As I said, you want to try t earn your salvation. good luck. You will not be happy when you find out you failed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I trust in Christ alone to save me. He is my righteousness, my salvation, my propitiation, my life. That statement alone is evidence of my Faith in Him alone.

You offered no argumentation about the 80 passages I mentioned because you don't have any. The Scripture says explicitly you must keep trusting Christ.

If you did trst God alone. You would trust him to keep his promises.

The fact you think you can lose your salvation proves you do nto trust Christ. Your trust is in your self and your ability to do whatever you think must be done to MAINTAIN your salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Very Good response!!

Now within your security of eternal life because God promised us that, do you feel you can sin and need no reason to ask God for forgiveness even if it caused another believer to question God or to bring doubt concerning God, by forgetting the fact that sin is against God even through GRACE?

If you knowingly sin, based upon your walk in God while being full of God's Holy Spirit, do you feel it necessary to ask God to forgive you of your sins?

And if so, is it due to the need because consciously you want to be pure before God, or because you know sin separates us from God which can lead to eventual eternal damnation?

Excuse me, But I do not excuse my sins when I sin, I do not act all proud and say I did not knowingly sin, I take credit for it. I confess it, and I praise God for putting up with a wretched souls as myself.

If you feel you sin on accident, or just have oopsies.. Somethign is wrong.

I Am born again, I have been adopted. And God did this KNOWING every sin I would commit the rest of my life.

When are you going to trust God. And not your ability to be good?

 

[delirious]

Did you notice your analogy has a hole in it?

If you take teh mark of the beast, you are DOOMED, there is no repentance out of it. Its over.
But how come if you got the seal of God (like the people you mentioned in Rev) it can be gotten rid of?

I apologize. I did not cover that section clearly enough in my post. The part that talks about people who take the mark is in Revelation 14: 9-12. It doesn't say that it is not reversible. It says whoever takes the mark of the beast will be tormented forever.

The mark of the beast is a sign/seal of ownership. It just means you are an unbeliever. You receive the mark by staying an unbeliever your whole life. This is why the following verses in Rev 14: 9-12 talk about torment in fire and brimstone forever and ever. That does not happen on earth. It happens at the end of your life.

What happens to the sealing of the 144,000 in Rev 7? After they are sealed there is a great multitude in heaven praising God. It's not on earth.

A person can come to faith in Christ and receive the "seal of the Holy Spirit". It is a mark of ownership and allegiance to God. That's why they are called servants.

 

[rlm68]

Excuse me, But I do not excuse my sins when I sin, I do not act all proud and say I did not knowingly sin, I take credit for it. I confess it, and I praise God for putting up with a wretched souls as myself.

If you feel you sin on accident, or just have oopsies.. Somethign is wrong.

I Am born again, I have been adopted. And God did this KNOWING every sin I would commit the rest of my life.

When are you going to trust God. And not your ability to be good?

So, you do admit you do sin (WE ALL DO JUST SAYING)?

And when you do sin, you feel either bad, guilty, and subconsciously you want to be free of that feeling (this is the Holy Spirit within you working)?

But, if you came to a point in your life where you just stopped asking for forgiveness and kept sinning, does the promise God made concerning your ETERNAL SALVATION still stand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, you do admit you do sin (WE ALL DO JUST SAYING)?

And when you do sin, you feel either bad, guilty, and subconsciously you want to be free of that feeling (this is the Holy Spirit within you working)?

But, if you came to a point in your life where you just stopped asking for forgiveness and kept sinning, does the promise God made concerning your ETERNAL SALVATION still stand?

I believe what John said.

A child of God can not continue in sin, because he has been born of God. Whoever sins has never seen God or known him.

We know he is talkng about a life of sin, Because everyone still sins.

And as Paul said, We all are chastened by God who can withstand Gods chastening.

God said I have eternal life. He did not call it conditional life. Why is it people want to make Gods promise to no affect? Either God promised it and he keeps his promise. Or God lied. Which is it?

 

[rlm68]

I believe what John said.

A child of God can not continue in sin, because he has been born of God. Whoever sins has never seen God or known him.

We know he is talkng about a life of sin, Because everyone still sins.

And as Paul said, We all are chastened by God who can withstand Gods chastening.

God said I have eternal life. He did not call it conditional life. Why is it people want to make Gods promise to no affect? Either God promised it and he keeps his promise. Or God lied. Which is it?

OK THEN!!


This is my conclusion to OSAS:


What I am getting at is the OSAS is based on a CONDITION.

That condition is YOU the BELIEVER keeps seeking forgiveness for all sins and wrongdoings to remain in that ETERNAL SALVATION PROMISE!!

So, it boils down to not what God is doing or promised, it boils down to you the believer must keep the faith and continually seek forgiveness if you sin until you die or are part of the second coming!!


So in theory, until people actually understand this loose term OSAS and the actual condition to it, it is NONSENSE TERM!!