Do you believe in this?
- Thread starter JackMack
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God wants all people to be saved.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
If a person hates sin, and does not want sin, they can abstain from sin by the Spirit, and if we sin we should have the proper understanding of truth to get rid of the sin and keep moving forward led by the Spirit.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
But some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them, for they want the flesh to lead them so they can enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, and then believe they are still right with God, which they are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Which the Bible says from such people turn away for they give offense to the ministry because of their hypocrisy, which the Bible says give offense in nothing that the ministry be not blamed.
We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth seeing no other alternative.
If a person programs their computer to say I love you, does the computer love the person, and is it true love, and if they program their computer to say I hate you will they get mad at their computer and smash it.
The OSAS people say they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, which means they hold unto sin for they cannot abstain from sins, and if that is the case then they fall victim to having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
All the while they say we are chosen and cannot fall which does not make sense.
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God wants all people to be saved.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
If a person hates sin, and does not want sin, they can abstain from sin by the Spirit, and if we sin we should have the proper understanding of truth to get rid of the sin and keep moving forward led by the Spirit.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
But some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them, for they want the flesh to lead them so they can enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, and then believe they are still right with God, which they are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Which the Bible says from such people turn away for they give offense to the ministry because of their hypocrisy, which the Bible says give offense in nothing that the ministry be not blamed.
We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth seeing no other alternative.
If a person programs their computer to say I love you, does the computer love the person, and is it true love, and if they program their computer to say I hate you will they get mad at their computer and smash it.
The OSAS people say they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, which means they hold unto sin for they cannot abstain from sins, and if that is the case then they fall victim to having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
All the while they say we are chosen and cannot fall which does not make sense.
-
1
- Show all
P
The problem with the " once saved , always saved " theology is that everyone is focused on the wrong half of the doctrine .
When the focus should be on the "once saved " half of , the equation , it's not , it's on the " always saved " half . I
The question shouldn't be is someone always saved , but whether they are saved at all .
When the focus should be on the "once saved " half of , the equation , it's not , it's on the " always saved " half . I
The question shouldn't be is someone always saved , but whether they are saved at all .
-
2
-
1
- Show all
E
1 John 5: 13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
It seems John is saying the most important aspect of continuing to have faith in Christ is KNOWING we have eternal life. Ie, Knowing we are eternally secure is the key to continued faith
When someone focuses on the first part. And ingores the second part. I must ask what their faith is in. Because if can not be in God. The root foundation of their faith is missing,
It seems John is saying the most important aspect of continuing to have faith in Christ is KNOWING we have eternal life. Ie, Knowing we are eternally secure is the key to continued faith
When someone focuses on the first part. And ingores the second part. I must ask what their faith is in. Because if can not be in God. The root foundation of their faith is missing,
-
1
- Show all
E
I can read the word of God. Can’t you?
1 John 5: 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Again, Scripture would be your friend. The same person who told us that we HAVE ETERNAL life, and knowing this will help us continue to have faith. Said it is the same faith that helps us overcome the world.
1 John 5: 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Again, Scripture would be your friend. The same person who told us that we HAVE ETERNAL life, and knowing this will help us continue to have faith. Said it is the same faith that helps us overcome the world.
This is a sophism:
"If God predetermined the end, I can do whatever and still the predetermined end will come. If God predetermined that I will die in a sea tomorrow, it will happen even if I will stay shoot myself right now."
This view has its origin in islam and has been brought to Europe during wars with Turkey.
But its only a sophism. The true is that when God predetermines the end, He also predetermines instruments, ways to the end. It will not happen no matter what you will do. It will happen because you will do what leads to it.
When we correct our thinking in this, there is no problem with "if I was promised the eternal life, why there are some warnings, instructions etc for me how to keep it."
"If God predetermined the end, I can do whatever and still the predetermined end will come. If God predetermined that I will die in a sea tomorrow, it will happen even if I will stay shoot myself right now."
This view has its origin in islam and has been brought to Europe during wars with Turkey.
But its only a sophism. The true is that when God predetermines the end, He also predetermines instruments, ways to the end. It will not happen no matter what you will do. It will happen because you will do what leads to it.
When we correct our thinking in this, there is no problem with "if I was promised the eternal life, why there are some warnings, instructions etc for me how to keep it."
"Now this is the will of the One having sent Me, that all that He has given Me, I should lose none of it, but will raise it up in the last day."
J 6:39
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
J 10:27
"You were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance"
Eph 1:13
"You are being guarded by the power of God through faith, for the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time"
1Pt 1:5
"Father, those whom You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory"
J 17:24 (do you believe that Father gives to Christ something He will take away from Him, later?)
"Those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined, these also He called; and whom He called, these also He justified; and whom He justified, these also He glorified."
R 8:29 (How can you lose God's predestination and foreknowledge?)
"I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come [i.e. future], nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
R 8:38
-----
I hope at least some verse will convince you that if you are truly in Him, if you truly believe in Jesus Christ, if have the Holy spirit in you, you will not loose the salvation, ever.
J 6:39
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
J 10:27
"You were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance"
Eph 1:13
"You are being guarded by the power of God through faith, for the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time"
1Pt 1:5
"Father, those whom You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory"
J 17:24 (do you believe that Father gives to Christ something He will take away from Him, later?)
"Those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined, these also He called; and whom He called, these also He justified; and whom He justified, these also He glorified."
R 8:29 (How can you lose God's predestination and foreknowledge?)
"I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come [i.e. future], nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
R 8:38
-----
I hope at least some verse will convince you that if you are truly in Him, if you truly believe in Jesus Christ, if have the Holy spirit in you, you will not loose the salvation, ever.
-
2
- Show all
What part does darkness have with light? As for the sins that could hinder us, in what way? We repent of such sins because they act as a hindrance to our walk, our destiny.
The path of righteousness, as you put it, is God's process of sanctification. A surrendering of our will, and our approaching the throne of grace in time of need (as temptation comes). It begins the moment of conception, as we are born-again, made new creations.
If OSAS wasn't true, then the battle for our souls does not rest in the hand of God (as scripture presents) but the will of men. Our security not found in the faithfulness of our Mediator (Christ), but the frailty of our flesh. Due to our inability to sustain our own righteousness, God has given us a propitiation, an appeasement, through the blood of Christ for our sins, and has, in effect, justified us forever (as Christ lives forever, with an eternal priesthood ever interceding on our behalf).
The foundation is Christ and Him crucified.
The path of righteousness, as you put it, is God's process of sanctification. A surrendering of our will, and our approaching the throne of grace in time of need (as temptation comes). It begins the moment of conception, as we are born-again, made new creations.
If OSAS wasn't true, then the battle for our souls does not rest in the hand of God (as scripture presents) but the will of men. Our security not found in the faithfulness of our Mediator (Christ), but the frailty of our flesh. Due to our inability to sustain our own righteousness, God has given us a propitiation, an appeasement, through the blood of Christ for our sins, and has, in effect, justified us forever (as Christ lives forever, with an eternal priesthood ever interceding on our behalf).
The foundation is Christ and Him crucified.
-
1
- Show all
HEY! Jack... PTL!
1 Jn 3:19-23 "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence before God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, that we believe upon the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
2 Pet 2:20, 21 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
How can anyone make it any clearer than it has been made in the above passages! We are to maintain our faith unto the end and sadly, turning again to sin is to stumble and if one is overcome; then they fall away from their faith: it is impossible to renew then again unto repentance, seeing that they crucify afresh the Son of God.
For example: Let's take the brother in 1 Cor 5 and call him strong in faith. We see that even though he was having his father's wife and the local church was told by Paul to shun him, but not to count his as an unbeliever. Then after stumbling for some time, he repented and was welcomed back into fellowship with the brethren; rather than being overcome with guilt and falling away and becoming one of whom, it would have been better to not have known the way of righteousness in the first place.
On the other hand: 1 Cor 8:6-12 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ."
Rom 14:15 "But if they brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died."
Maranatha!
1 Jn 3:19-23 "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence before God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, that we believe upon the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
2 Pet 2:20, 21 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
How can anyone make it any clearer than it has been made in the above passages! We are to maintain our faith unto the end and sadly, turning again to sin is to stumble and if one is overcome; then they fall away from their faith: it is impossible to renew then again unto repentance, seeing that they crucify afresh the Son of God.
For example: Let's take the brother in 1 Cor 5 and call him strong in faith. We see that even though he was having his father's wife and the local church was told by Paul to shun him, but not to count his as an unbeliever. Then after stumbling for some time, he repented and was welcomed back into fellowship with the brethren; rather than being overcome with guilt and falling away and becoming one of whom, it would have been better to not have known the way of righteousness in the first place.
On the other hand: 1 Cor 8:6-12 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ."
Rom 14:15 "But if they brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died."
Maranatha!
I am not a fan of the idealism of once saved always saved. But with that much in mind, once we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit, God NEVER LEAVES US!! So, from the side of GOD, He is there knocking on our door to keep us close to Him.
Where I disagree with this notion due to the false belief in GRACE, is that Grace is here only because God had MERCY!!
And since God cannot make us do anything, WE CAN WALK AWAY FROM GOD!!
So that leaves the question then:
If God never leaves us once we accept Him as our God, how can we not always be saved?
BECAUSE, we can LEAVE GOD!!
And if we choose to leave God, He will honor our decision. Therefore, a person who leaves God IS NO LONGER SAVED!!
Where I disagree with this notion due to the false belief in GRACE, is that Grace is here only because God had MERCY!!
And since God cannot make us do anything, WE CAN WALK AWAY FROM GOD!!
So that leaves the question then:
If God never leaves us once we accept Him as our God, how can we not always be saved?
BECAUSE, we can LEAVE GOD!!
And if we choose to leave God, He will honor our decision. Therefore, a person who leaves God IS NO LONGER SAVED!!