If you’re planning to go on a date with someone special, who should pay for it?

[RickDeckard]

I agree that women are repulsed by perusing men. Women want strong men, but pursuit is weakness. If you pursue a woman, you devalue yourself in her eyes. And, if the woman doesn't find you attractive, pursuing her and then asking her out is not going to end well.

I don't think asking a woman out equals pursuit, at least not in a significant way. Let her she pursue you, and then you seal the deal.

And therein lies the rub; too many Christian women KNOW IN THEIR GUT that it is their role to pursue men, yet they won’t do it. Because they were raised on Disney and told by false Christians that it’s against the Bible.

Meanwhile, strong men go through life believing that women aren’t interested ... only for her to confess her interest YEARS after it is too late.

I pray that the church wakes up to what is happening here. They need to stop harping on men to pursue and instead start preaching for women to stop being passive and to embrace their true, feminine calling.

 

[maxwel]

Observation. I have some homework for you. What is your favorite James Bond movie? Which ever it is, watch it as soon as you can. WHOM makes the first move, Bond or the Bond girl? I think you'll be shocked to realized that in all of the ACTUAL Bond movies (screw you, Daniel Craig), the bond girl is the first to make a move. Every time.

The concept of a man "pursuing" is quite recent. In fact, we all of the image in our minds of a bombshell locking eyes across the room, smiling, and imploring you to "approach". Because women are in constant competition with other women, they want to "feel" like they have "won" a man away from all of the other women. Millennial women are repulsed by pursuing men, because a man who pursues instantly removes the woman's desire to work for his affections. Now? Women huddle with their friends, they swipe left or right, and don't dare smile at a guy, let alone look at them. And then they wonder why we don't "approach". They bought into the feminist LIE that "hard-to-get" works. No self-respecting man would "pursue" such a woman.

We men are different; we hate pursuing. We understand that love is to be given freely and that it isn't some "transaction". We also enjoy equal effort. This is why we almost always feel guilty after rejecting a woman; because opportunities for us are slim to none compared to women, and we miss the attention.

The more a man focuses on his life's purpose, the more women become interested in him. The more he focuses on her, the less interested she is in him.

Ruth pursued Boaz.
Rebekah had to convince Isaac.
Potipher's Wife tried to rape Joseph.
Bathsehba seduced David.
Rachael presented herself to Jacob.
Abigail presented herself to David.
Eve was given to Adam.

There are countless upon countless examples in the Bible of women pursuing men ... and I've yet to find a single example of men pursuing women.

Men just are not nearly as sexual as women are either, so it makes little logical sense for men to be pursuing what women absolutely crave more than we do anyways.

I understand that many Christian women have been BRAINWASHED by church "leader" in waiting for men to ask them out. They do so at their own peril, mainly because Millennial men are often way to busy to even consider a woman who doesn't show her interest as potential. We just are not designed to go through life trying to convince women to like us; either she is interested from the get-go, or nothing develops. And if she is interested, she needs to SAY IT.

So Biblically, women should make the first move?


Let's take a look at your Biblical evidence for WHY GIRLS SHOULD MAKE THE FIRST MOVE:

Ruth pursued Boaz.
- From a romantic point of view it is all extremely nuanced and debatable; not to mention there is an entire legal point of view which dealt with legal obligations specific only to that culture. This is an extremely complex cultural and legal situation; very tricky to try and parse it for some kind of "modern dating principle."
Rebekah had to convince Isaac.
- I don't even know where you got that; that's not what happened at all... his family PURSUED HER, and when he met her, he fell instantly in love with her.
Potipher's Wife tried to rape Joseph.
- This has nothing to do with dating... so it's irrelevant unless you're waiting for pagan women to rape you.
Bathsehba seduced David.
- I don't think the historical or cultural context supports that at all... that's a serious presumption. And even if you WERE right, it's irrelevant to Christian dating unless you're waiting for a married woman to seduce you so you can kill her husband.
Rachael presented herself to Jacob.
- This statement is just nonsensical and has nothing to do with the story at all... Jacob was all over her, proactively all over her, from the moment they met, and virtually the first thing he said to Laban was "I want to buy your daughter."
Abigail presented herself to David.
- Another nonsense statement. Abigail did not make ANY move toward David except to plead with him not to kill her husband... she was only talking to David to protect her husband. And when her husband died, David proactively SENT FOR HER and PROPOSED MARRIAGE TO HER. David made all the moves.
Eve was given to Adam.
- This has nothing to do with dating, or with women making the first moves on men... this is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with your point.


Conclusion:
1. I went through every single point, and every single point was nonsense.
2. I'm not sure who taught you this stuff... but you need to return the book, and get your money back.
3. You have liberty in Christ to handle dating however you please, as long as you maintain your Christian testimony... however, it would be an error to tell people your philosophy is mandated by scripture.




...

 

[maxwel]

My Philosophy on who should make the first move.

1. I don't care, and I can't really see from scripture that God cares either.

2. It's a little silly to search too deeply for "dating rules" in an ancient text where NOBODY WAS DATING.

3. The most Biblical solution I can see is to APPLY GENERAL CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES to dating, just like we do with everything else.
Be right with God, pray for your needs, put your relationship with God above all things, make your requests known to God, serve God as he leads you... and don't be afraid to throw in some "seeking" if you feel led, that's perfectly Biblical.

4. Full disclosure: I don't chase women.
- By that I mean I don't chase them about like a desperate dog in heat that can't get a date... it seems kinda uncool, lol.
- But I certainly do talk to them, or make the first move, if I feel like doing that.
- I HONESTLY JUST DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!!!!

Relax people... God doesn't explain this too much in scripture because it's not mysterious!
Guys and girls have been getting together for thousands of years!
It's not a mystery!




...

 

[RickDeckard]

@maxwel

You must be a replicant.

 

[YHello]

wait but the real question should be are we just going to pursue anyone?

 

[toinena]

Dating is a new thing historically.
Most marriages of importance were arranged between families or on a rare occasion pursued by the man.

If a woman pursued or seduced she was labelled loose.
Don't use the Bible to make a non existing point!

 

[RickDeckard]

Dating is a new thing historically.
Most marriages of importance were arranged between families or on a rare occasion pursued by the man.

If a woman pursued or seduced she was labelled loose.
Don't use the Bible to make a non existing point!

WRONG.

Marriage WAS NOT "pursued" by the man.

If you like me, and want to play "hard-to-get" and give me absolutely no insight into who you are or what kind of character you have, then I as a man will never be interested in you.

Women initiate, men respond.

 

[maxwel]

WRONG.

Marriage WAS NOT "pursued" by the man.

If you like me, and want to play "hard-to-get" and give me absolutely no insight into who you are or what kind of character you have, then I as a man will never be interested in you.

Women initiate, men respond.

Silly and Unbiblical

This is silly, and I already rebutted all your terrible theology in post#202 above.

I don't care what views you hold about dating.
I honestly don't care.
However, I do care when you try to foist them on the whole forum,
and claim they're scriptural.

PDF
FYI: I'm not going to respond to a PDF attachment.
If you want to debate me, put your arguments right in the forum, in plain text, so everyone can see them.


...

 

[maxwel]

RickDeckard, in your defense,

You surely got your "list of evidence" in post#202 from some other source.
It doesn't sound like something you've dreamed up on your own.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just write this off to you having some really bad teachers.

I'm sorry you've had bad teachers.
But... they're really bad.


...

 

[RickDeckard]

Silly and Unbiblical

This is silly, and I already rebutted all your terrible theology in post#202 above.

I don't care what views you hold about dating.
I honestly don't care.
However, I do care when you try to foist them on the whole forum,
and claim they're scriptural.

PDF
FYI: I'm not going to respond to a PDF attachment.
If you want to debate me, put your arguments right in the forum, in plain text, so everyone can see them.


...

There was much to say about your heretical, Satanic doctrine; the forum wouldn't let me post it in full. The PDF proves you wrong, but you're just too lazy to even read it.

 

[toinena]

WRONG.

Marriage WAS NOT "pursued" by the man.

If you like me, and want to play "hard-to-get" and give me absolutely no insight into who you are or what kind of character you have, then I as a man will never be interested in you.

Women initiate, men respond.

Man is the one shall ask the woman to marry. What happens before that is not really relevant. For us as Christians we should act when prompted to by the Spirit. In my case, I did some kind of initiative, but he brought up the marriage question. For us it is also a question of being obedient to what God has planned for us.

I don't care who pays for the date, but if the man asks, he pays. If the woman asks, she pays. If a date comes from a discussion and an agreement, split the bill.

My biggest concern here is keep the Bible out of it, because it is just a constructed argument that falls on historical facts

 

[RickDeckard]

Man is the one shall ask the woman to marry. What happens before that is not really relevant. For us as Christians we should act when prompted to by the Spirit. In my case, I did some kind of initiative, but he brought up the marriage question. For us it is also a question of being obedient to what God has planned for us.

I don't care who pays for the date, but if the man asks, he pays. If the woman asks, she pays. If a date comes from a discussion and an agreement, split the bill.

My biggest concern here is keep the Bible out of it, because it is just a constructed argument that falls on historical facts

The historical and Biblical facts are that a woman shows romantic/sexual desire for a man, AND THEN he decides to consider her as a partner ...

 

[toinena]

The historical and Biblical facts are that a woman shows romantic/sexual desire for a man, AND THEN he decides to consider her as a partner ...

Now. I didn't want to go there.... but. Some historians have said Mary's age was around 13 when she became pregnant with Jesus. Don't tell me she was playing sexually attractive to Joseph! To claim you have Biblical proof for your statements are just beyond reason

 

[RickDeckard]

Now. I didn't want to go there.... but. Some historians have said Mary's age was around 13 when she became pregnant with Jesus. Don't tell me she was playing sexually attractive to Joseph! To claim you have Biblical proof for your statements are just beyond reason

Wrong again!

Those historians are SICK and tying to sell the awful sin of “age gap relationships”.

We know by the Bible and by historical record that a person wasn’t considered an adult until 20, and thus, Mary was at least 20 and likely older.

 

[Pipp]

The original post in this thread is a sample of issues I have dating Christian millennial women. American women, in general, are probably among the most obnoxious in the world. What kind of crazy world do we live in when women march down the street wearing hats designed to look like their genitalia, apparently with the blessing of a small majority of women?

Just look at the hysterical replies to my post. Nothing lady-like in a number of them. If a woman posted opinions something like I posted, men wouldn't respond in such a nasty way.

As an American woman... I have never personally met one other female that's done the marching through the street with a hooha hat on her head. Just cause you see something on social media doesn't mean it is true of most people. I live in the south.... most women aren't snowflakes around here. Black, White , Hispanic , Asian and everyone else alike are usually strong , caring , sweet people.... don't get me wrong , I've met a few crazies along the way , but they were the exception to the rule. Anyway... I can be silly at times, but I don't think I'd qualify as obnoxious.

 

[LittleMermaid]

Have you MET Millennial women???

 

[Jennie-Mae]

Is it possible that you, Mr Rick, so far hasn’t been able to establish contact with a truly graceful lady, and that’s what causing you to express yourself a little injudiciously?

Mr Rick! I’ve been reading some of the back and forth in this thread, and it seems to me, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that you still need to do some working on your ability to be comprehending the unspoken language of the ladies you are meeting.

Now, us ladies, we’re not so mysterious, quite the contrary I’d say, but you need to understand one thing. A real important thing. At least where I’m from.

A girl don’t ask a guy for a date. A girl cannot afford the social costs of a guy turning her down. That’s part of the reason why we will be encouraging you by using subtle hints. That will make you know when to ask and when not to ask.

If she’s laughing when you’re telling bad jokes, that might could be a sign. Or if she’s trying to get your attention by dropping something on the ground.

Pretending her leg is hurting and that she needs help.

Telling you, in the middle of a crowd of people y’all both know, that she is cold (I did that).

 

[Daz]

Scenario: you are going on a date with someone that you are very interested and invested in. You’ve known them for a while now, say 2-3 months, and you both finally agree to go on this special date.

In terms of expenses (travel, food, venue, etc) who should pay for the date? Her? Him? Both?

Myth: there’s always been that myth that ‘men should pay’ as it’s a gentlemen’s approach or tradition. Do you agree?

Real life experiences: feel free to share any real life experiences that you’ve had in this area that might be of good advice for those who haven’t experienced this area yet.

Overall, I’m interested to see some answers and/or experiences. View attachment 185183

Depends on discussion and agreement of both parties - if I spend more on travel I don't think it wrong to accept an offer to pay for the food

 

[LittleMermaid]

I thought I would share this awesome video for the ladies here. Girls, remember, pursuing a guy makes us feel terrible. It's not Biblical.

 

[VincentG]

My Philosophy on who should make the first move.

1. I don't care, and I can't really see from scripture that God cares either.

2. It's a little silly to search too deeply for "dating rules" in an ancient text where NOBODY WAS DATING.

3. The most Biblical solution I can see is to APPLY GENERAL CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES to dating, just like we do with everything else.
Be right with God, pray for your needs, put your relationship with God above all things, make your requests known to God, serve God as he leads you... and don't be afraid to throw in some "seeking" if you feel led, that's perfectly Biblical.

4. Full disclosure: I don't chase women.
- By that I mean I don't chase them about like a desperate dog in heat that can't get a date... it seems kinda uncool, lol.
- But I certainly do talk to them, or make the first move, if I feel like doing that.
- I HONESTLY JUST DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!!!!

Relax people... God doesn't explain this too much in scripture because it's not mysterious!
Guys and girls have been getting together for thousands of years!
It's not a mystery!




...

Ok then..ever since the caveman days who way carrying the club and who had who by the hair..HUH?