Speaking in tongues

[presidente]

God mocking them by speaking other languages other then Hebrew is because they refuse to repent.

In I Corinthians 15, Paul implies that bearing false witness of God is a bad thing. This passage does not say that God was mocking these people.

Not so they would repent. If they believe not prophecy than neither would they believe if one rises from the dead. like Jesus.

When you hear speaking in tongues, do you hear God or do you reject it like the unlearned or unbelieving person in the example?

Speaking in tongues is also good for the other things we learn about in this book. One who gives thanks in tongues gives thanks well. Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. If interpreted, the interpretation can edify the church.

 

[Dino246]

God mocking them by speaking other languages other then Hebrew is because they refuse to repent. Not so they would repent. If they believe not prophecy than neither would they believe if one rises from the dead. like Jesus.

They refused to hear God. Signs are against those that rebel it does not support them . Prophecy supports those who believe .

Tongues is prophecy spoken of in any language God choses to bring his word .Stammering lips or mocking lips is God speaking in other languages other than Hebrew yet for all that, they will not hear Me' is fulfilled in a way.

No sign gifts .Sign curses yes. Its an evil generation that seeks after one

For at least the tenth time, "tongues" is not "prophecy"; 1 Corinthians 14 makes that abundantly clear. I'm really beginning to wonder at your understanding of these issues.

 

[garee]

There is no sense trying to reason with garee as he obviously has a chip on his shoulder about this speaking in tongues. Well garee, I am sorry if someone in you past tried to force you into something that made you so hostile. You are trying to twist every other scripture into something to use against tongues. Just leave him be Dino, you are not going to put out this fire he has against Pentecostals.

LOL not a chip . I am trying to untwist what is easily seen . Tongues, God brining new prophecy before the close of all prophecy (the perfect) in all the languages of the world, mocked the Jew that refused to hear prophecy as a sign against them . Its the fire of the holy Spirit that judges those who refuse to walk by faith that alone comes from believing the scriptures. The same mentality of them fall back when other lay hands on them a sign against them. Like tongues they turn it upside down and make a sign to confirm they have the working of the Holy Spirit ..

No outward sign gifts.

 

[garee]

For at least the tenth time, "tongues" is not "prophecy"; 1 Corinthians 14 makes that abundantly clear. I'm really beginning to wonder at your understanding of these issues.

I am still waiting for these verses that you say prove tongues is not prophecy. If its God speaking.... it is prophecy, the revealed will.

What was he revealing to the ones that refuses to hear prophecy if not prophecy ? Was he just making a noise without meaning?

Back to the foundation.

For with stammering lips and another tongue (another language other than Hebrew alone ) will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord (prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord (prophecy) , ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Isaiah 28:11-14

 

[Dino246]

I am still waiting for these verses that you say prove tongues is not prophecy. If its God speaking.... it is prophecy, the revealed will.

...

smh.... Read the Scripture for yourself. 1 Corinthians 14.

 

[Noose]

A question is not evidence for an assertion.

No it's not but from the answer we can show how far removed from truth you are.

 

[Noose]

The reality is; currently, there's no genuine tongues/prophesies/miracles/healing that people claim here and there. I'm not saying that they ceased entirely but the spirit of God works within individuals and never for public show as was the case in 1st century.
Cessation is not just an assertion but a deeper understanding of times and seasons and the reason the manifestation of all these gifts had to change.

IMO, the root to cessation would be this prophesy:

Jer 31:
31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to d them, e ”
declares the Lord.
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”

As soon as the new covenant is ratified, there is no such thing as evangelists/apostles/ healers/prophets/miracle workers/tongue speakers. All these thing had their time which is now long gone but many will be disappointed. Now God works within our hearts individually- i can say i'm healed, i don't need people to lay hands on me/ i have understanding when i read the bible, i don't need a preacher to give me their version of understanding. This is how it is supposed to be in the new covenant.

Again, many will be disappointed. Many means many.

Matt 7: 21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[wolfwint]

I'm not sure of pre-1900 groups that taught that. I can think of maybe one may who might have held that view, based on a quote from him, but there is no evidence that he spoke in tongues himself, though he believed in it. But I already posted that I do not believe in the 'initial evidence doctrine.'

FF Bosworth was an early Pentecostal who did not believe that tongues was the exclusive sign of baptism with the Holy Ghost. He left the Assemblies of God over it, went back to the Christian and Missionary Alliance, and continued healing ministry. There are probably plenty of congregations in the prophetic movement and similar movements taht believe in gifts of the Spirit but don't teach 'initial evidence.' I don't think the Vineyard taught initial evidence like that in the '80's when Wimber was doing signs and wonders seminars.

No, there was non group before 1901 which taught that. But from this Time on was taught to receive the Holy Spirit a Second Time. And this means before 1901 christians did not know that this is even possible - People who had already baptised with the Holy Spirit again got baptised. This is not what Bible teaches.

 

[garee]

In I Corinthians 15, Paul implies that bearing false witness of God is a bad thing. This passage does not say that God was mocking these people.


When you hear speaking in tongues, do you hear God or do you reject it like the unlearned or unbelieving person in the example?

Speaking in tongues is also good for the other things we learn about in this book. One who gives thanks in tongues gives thanks well. Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. If interpreted, the interpretation can edify the church.

The reference of God mocking the Jews who mocked Him because they refused to hear prophecy is not in respect to I Corinthians 15, where Paul implies that bearing false witness of God is a bad thing.

If I would hear a person making noises and they said it was God speaking I would reject it was God speaking .God is no longer bring any new revelations in any manner to include tongues.

Why desire to go above that which is written .Is there a law missing by which we could know God more adequately . I would suggest by faith heed the warning not to add to His perfect word.

Again tongues (past tense) was simply God brining his interpretation in any language as a sign against the Jew who refused to hear God. Previously he only spoke in Hebrew. This mocked the Jews who mocked him through the oral traditions of the fathers who made the word of God Prophecy without effect. Sola scriptura made their oral tradition to no effect seeing no man can serve two teaching masters.(1) The unseen things of God called faith and (2) those of men that walk by sight "no faith"

I can give thanks to God in my heart without making a noise to edify Him. He know my thoughts and intent long before they could reach my lips. It is he who brings to our minds the things he has taught us

Tongue like any gift that a person tries to turn into evidence called sign gifts that they say proves they have the Holy Spirit only shows they are not walking by faith the unseen eternal .

Natural unconverted man called a evil generation does seek after sign and wonders gospel called walking by sight according to the example below

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

The unbelieving Jewish disciples who refused to hear prophecy when given a answer to the above murmured against Christ and walked away in unbelief (no faith).

 

[garee]

The reality is; currently, there's no genuine tongues/prophesies/miracles/healing that people claim here and there. I'm not saying that they ceased entirely but the spirit of God works within individuals and never for public show as was the case in 1st century.
Cessation is not just an assertion but a deeper understanding of times and seasons and the reason the manifestation of all these gifts had to change.

IMO, the root to cessation would be this prophesy:

Jer 31:
31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to d them, e ”
declares the Lord.
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”

As soon as the new covenant is ratified, there is no such thing as evangelists/apostles/ healers/prophets/miracle workers/tongue speakers. All these thing had their time which is now long gone but many will be disappointed. Now God works within our hearts individually- i can say i'm healed, i don't need people to lay hands on me/ i have understanding when i read the bible, i don't need a preacher to give me their version of understanding. This is how it is supposed to be in the new covenant.

Again, many will be disappointed. Many means many.

Matt 7: 21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Tongues today now that God is no longer brining any new revelations, seeing we have the perfect without any words missing can be compared to the four hundred silent period between the testaments when all kinds of secret book s were developed as not part of Cannon .

 

[Dino246]

No it's not but from the answer we can show how far removed from truth you are.

Personal insults instead of evidence? That demonstrates your character and says nothing about me.

 

[Dino246]

Tongues today now that God is no longer brining any new revelations, seeing we have the perfect without any words missing can be compared to the four hundred silent period between the testaments when all kinds of secret book s were developed as not part of Cannon .

God hasn't done any "brining" for about 4500 years. That was the last time He flooded the earth.

The word is "bringing", not "brining".

 

[garee]

God hasn't done any "brining" for about 4500 years. That was the last time He flooded the earth.

The word is "bringing", not "brining".

Thanks .

So then how was the word of God, prophecy brought up until two thousands years ago ? Residue flood water?

Revelation is still the last book in my Bible. Did you have something to add to it?

 

[Dino246]

Revelation is still the last book in my Bible. Did you have something to add to it?

You hold the view that if God speaks in any way at all, that it is (or should be part of) Scripture. I don’t agree.

I am absolutely certain that God speaks to individuals outside of Scripture, but it is logically impossible to prove that from Scripture. All I can point to is the last verse in John’s gospel; not everything is written down.

What I firmly disavow is any claim that such extra-biblical communication can add to, supersede or contradict Scripture.

 

[garee]

You hold the view that if God speaks in any way at all, that it is (or should be part of) Scripture. I don’t agree.

I am absolutely certain that God speaks to individuals outside of Scripture, but it is logically impossible to prove that from Scripture. All I can point to is the last verse in John’s gospel; not everything is written down.

What I firmly disavow is any claim that such extra-biblical communication can add to, supersede or contradict Scripture.

Its not a matter of contradicting Scripture but adding to it with the oral traditions of men as a private interpretation or personal commentaries of what each individual thinks God is teaching they as do seek His approval. Every man has a private interpretation or heresy (opinion) that can differ much or a little like fingerprints.

So then I would offer not any way at all . Just new revelations. Why add to the gospel? Is there a law missing by which we could know him more adequately?

Is there a law that says if we do something outwardly we have proof or evidence of the Holy Spirit is working in us .Or do we walk by faith in respect to that not seen according to the prescription needed to rightly divide His Spiritual truths ?

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

 

[Dino246]

Its not a matter of contradicting Scripture but adding to it with the oral traditions of men as a private interpretation or personal commentaries of what each individual thinks God is teaching they as do seek His approval. Every man has a private interpretation or heresy (opinion) that can differ much or a little like fingerprints.

So then I would offer not any way at all . Just new revelations. Why add to the gospel? Is there a law missing by which we could know him more adequately?

Is there a law that says if we do something outwardly we have proof or evidence of the Holy Spirit is working in us .Or do we walk by faith in respect to that not seen according to the prescription needed to rightly divide His Spiritual truths ?

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

There is so much in this post that I have addressed repeatedly. You aren't paying any attention to what I write, but only repeating the same tired catch phrases, misinterpreted verses, and mis-spelled words. I trust you find it entertaining, because you certainly aren't learning anything.

 

[garee]

There is so much in this post that I have addressed repeatedly. You aren't paying any attention to what I write, but only repeating the same tired catch phrases, misinterpreted verses, and mis-spelled words. I trust you find it entertaining, because you certainly aren't learning anything.

I am paying attention. Much that you have ignored. Like tongues is prophecy, God speaking.

Here is a question is God still brining new prophecy as a revelation?

 

[Dino246]

I am paying attention. Much that you have ignored. Like tongues is prophecy, God speaking.

Here is a question is God still brining new prophecy as a revelation?

I ignore assertions that I have already refuted.

No, God is not BRINING anything at all. Seriously, man, proofread your posts. Your question is sufficient evidence that you aren't reading my posts, because I answered it clearly two posts back.

 

[garee]

I ignore assertions that I have already refuted.

No, God is not BRINING anything at all. Seriously, man, proofread your posts. Your question is sufficient evidence that you aren't reading my posts, because I answered it clearly two posts back.

With all due respect. I read everyone of them. Just because I do not agree does not mean I have not read them and come to a conclusion. Different than your opinion.... yes.

You have not refuted anything .Corrected my terrible spelling, yes (thanks)

A person would to know the meaning a word first before they could find the doctrine . It seem you are confused to what a Prophet it .What prophecy is, and what it mean to prophesy.?

I find many who are confused in that way. Most believe prophecy is telling the future and that's it. like a fortune teller.

I would think if we do not have the proper understanding of one word as the author intended how could we rightfully divide his word in order to seek his approval ?

Change the meaning of one word it destroys the integrity of the author and finisher of our faith

 

[Dino246]

I find many who are confused in that way. Most believe prophecy is telling the future and that's it. like a fortune teller.

I'm neither "many" nor "most" and I certainly don't believe that. Prophecy is clearly explained in 1 Corinthians 14:3 "But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort" (NIV). While foretelling is not ruled out, it is not specified either.

Change the meaning of one word it destroys the integrity of the author and finisher of our faith

Destroys? No; God's integrity is unaffected by our beliefs. The coherence of our views might be compromised though. Given your assertion, it amazes me that you continually conflate tongues and prophecy when Scripture clearly distinguishes them.