A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM
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You are to pray even for your enemies. By you not praying for someone who does not believe as you do is anti-biblical.
Luke 6
27-30 “To you who are ready for the truth, I say this: Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.”
These birds aren't my enemies . . . they have a free will to reject God's Word. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will convict them one day - but I'm sure He is not going to convince a man against his will. I must say that the 'doctrine of grace' is not very graceful at all.
Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 clearly show Paul was writing about a Sovereign God who has elected and predestined those who are to be saved. Romans 6 shows Paul who does not hold to the free will of man.
From Ephesians 1
3-6 How blessed is God! And what a blessing he is! He’s the Father of our Master, Jesus Christ, and takes us to the high places of blessing in him. Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love. Long, long ago he decided to adopt us into his family through Jesus Christ. (What pleasure he took in planning this!) He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son.
7-10 Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we’re a free people—free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds. And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free! He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.
11-12 It’s in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone.
Election took place before He laid down earth’s foundation.
Is that supposed to be from the Bible?
You wanna talk about a trainwreck of a translation there? Oy vey!
U
UnderGrace
Guest
And most of them don't even believe they have the pure words of God, but that's another topic.
And the mechanism for receiving Salvation is the Faith we have been given as a gift from God, put into action from hearing the Gospel.
If we reject that God is the One who gives us the Faith, then where do we get it from?
This has been answered many times.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
No, hearing does not produce faith, hearing is only needed for the faith. Water is needed for a tea, but water does not produce the tea.
"But I ask, did they not hear?...But I ask, did Israel not know?..."
R 10:18,19
And if you read the next text, you will get to what is the thing:
"I have left to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal...So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace."
R 11:4,5
If it don’t say what they want it to say they will keep looking until they find one that do
I just read the OP and a bit of first page. Well, the posts that the OP didn't post, because I do not have time to read raving, garrulous posts ever.
One thing I did read in the very first post was this:
"All the seminaries are teaching Calvinism." Or something similar.
So, from one point of view, I would hope you are right. To be truly educated, we do need to know the different points of view. So, in my theology class, we took a few pages on Calvinism, a few on Arminianism, a few more on other viewpoints, and then we moved on. I confess, other than learning what TULIP and supralaparianism means, it didn't stick. At that time, anyway.
Our professor told us we need to read for ourselves, first the Bible, then study soteriology some more, then really compare it to the Bible and come up with what we believe. Of course, what we believe meant from the Bible. We had Calvinist and Mennonites and baptists of all sort, some Lutherans, charismatics and some Reformed Baptist. We had talks about these viewpoints, no one convinced anyone else. Everyone basically went back to their respective denominations, and preached what God told them, I would assume.
So no, most seminaries to not 'TEACH YOU TO BE CALVINIST," which is what I think you meant. If you went to a Presbyterian or Reformed seminary, they would emphasize it, sure. But, most seminaries feel they need to teach you to learn to properly read the Bible, you know exegesis, hermeneutics, original languages and you decide what you believe.
I will say, I have read a lot on the Reformed view, and I have definitely moved much closer to it. I went to Arminian churches the first 15 years I was saved. I thought it was a horrible doctrine. I know people who could not feel that they were ever good enough to be saved, or stay saved. What a terrible way to leave people.
Eternal security of the believer is so important to our walk with God. Or, "perseverance of the saints." And if people say they are saved and then willfully commit sin, I have no problem saying, "they never were with us."
"Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. 4 The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person. 5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him. 6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked." 1 John 2:3-6 NET
I hope you agree with this statement. Speaking to everyone! Probably it would be more profitable to discuss something we can actually act upon, like "obeying God." Rather than worrying about HOW people are saved (I believe salvation is monergist, and is totally of God. That was my experience and that is what the Bible says, over and over), why don't we spend some time talking about the ways we can obey God. Especially with things that aren't literally mentioned in the Bible, such as sending pipe bombs to people we don't like, or voting a certain way, and saying it is "Christian!"
Oops, I didn't mean to get really controversial. How about the immutability of God? I noticed people talked about this in earlier pages. Does God change or not? Is God passible or impassible? That's a good topic! Does God have emotions or not?
One thing I did read in the very first post was this:
"All the seminaries are teaching Calvinism." Or something similar.
So, from one point of view, I would hope you are right. To be truly educated, we do need to know the different points of view. So, in my theology class, we took a few pages on Calvinism, a few on Arminianism, a few more on other viewpoints, and then we moved on. I confess, other than learning what TULIP and supralaparianism means, it didn't stick. At that time, anyway.
Our professor told us we need to read for ourselves, first the Bible, then study soteriology some more, then really compare it to the Bible and come up with what we believe. Of course, what we believe meant from the Bible. We had Calvinist and Mennonites and baptists of all sort, some Lutherans, charismatics and some Reformed Baptist. We had talks about these viewpoints, no one convinced anyone else. Everyone basically went back to their respective denominations, and preached what God told them, I would assume.
So no, most seminaries to not 'TEACH YOU TO BE CALVINIST," which is what I think you meant. If you went to a Presbyterian or Reformed seminary, they would emphasize it, sure. But, most seminaries feel they need to teach you to learn to properly read the Bible, you know exegesis, hermeneutics, original languages and you decide what you believe.
I will say, I have read a lot on the Reformed view, and I have definitely moved much closer to it. I went to Arminian churches the first 15 years I was saved. I thought it was a horrible doctrine. I know people who could not feel that they were ever good enough to be saved, or stay saved. What a terrible way to leave people.
Eternal security of the believer is so important to our walk with God. Or, "perseverance of the saints." And if people say they are saved and then willfully commit sin, I have no problem saying, "they never were with us."
"Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. 4 The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person. 5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him. 6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked." 1 John 2:3-6 NET
I hope you agree with this statement. Speaking to everyone! Probably it would be more profitable to discuss something we can actually act upon, like "obeying God." Rather than worrying about HOW people are saved (I believe salvation is monergist, and is totally of God. That was my experience and that is what the Bible says, over and over), why don't we spend some time talking about the ways we can obey God. Especially with things that aren't literally mentioned in the Bible, such as sending pipe bombs to people we don't like, or voting a certain way, and saying it is "Christian!"
Oops, I didn't mean to get really controversial. How about the immutability of God? I noticed people talked about this in earlier pages. Does God change or not? Is God passible or impassible? That's a good topic! Does God have emotions or not?
The problem with about 99% of sin is that it is all willful. If someone were to lose their salvation they can't be saved again.
P
pottersclay
Guest
No such thing as a unsaved Christian?????are you for real??? How small is your world???? I suppose we get to spend eternity with mormens, J.Ws, morally good people that believe in God and his son, Catholics, ect..ect.. in the world's view there Christian since the world gave them that title.
Now instead of throwing stones why not try to teach one what and why you believe by answering my question???
How does God judge one that never had the hope or chance to know him?.
Why would he give a person a soul to be tormented for ever.
Your turn friend
I do not believe that they are interested in answering any questions, their only purpose being on this thread is to throw barbs and tell us how hateful and mean we are. None of them have even read the OP--they don't care--their mind is made up and they are here to make sure that no one else has a change to make their minds up. The more they insist we are wrong the more they hope to influence someone else to agree with them.
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost" (I Thessalonians 2:13-16).
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost" (I Thessalonians 2:13-16).