Speaking in tongues

[garee]

The Bible does not teach this. Sergius Paulus believed after he saw Saul/Paul declare Elymas blind, and the man go away blind. Was he an atheist after he believed? Did he have no faith? Jesus said, before healing a man, 'Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.'

He also showed Thomas evidence of the resurrection, telling him, 'be not faithless, but believing.'

No such thing as a outward sign gift .We walk by the faith of God, the unseen.

Remember God is no longer bringing any new revelations after any manner to include tongues .

When Christ said 'Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. 'Was he commending him as a blessing or saying he has no faith as a curse ? The same with faithless Thomas ?

It boils down to are signs to be desired and sought after and prophecy ignored ?

IF you consider these scriptures, the book of John and the book of Acts, to be prophecies, why do you reject the teachings of these prophecies, and year after year spew out these confusing misinterpretations of I Corinthians? How do you remain in this confusion? Can you not see the scriptures and other words that are typed on your screen, or does the inability to comprehend occur in your mind somehow?

Also, Paul says 'forbid not to speak with tongues.' Do you not reject speaking in tongues? Of the posters here, who is the one who refuses to 'hear' God through speaking in tongues?

We hear God through the language we are familiar with called tongues. God does all the interpreting . He does not say ask the other guy.


I know what it reads. Sign are for those who believe not prophecy. Which is God brining his interpretation in all the languages of the word and not just the Hebrew. He mocked the unbelievers with stammering lips. Why do you think he was mocking the unbelieving Jew ?



The Bible does not teach this. Sergius Paulus believed after he saw Saul/Paul declare Elymas blind, and the man go away blind. Was he an atheist after he believed? Did he have no faith? Jesus said, before healing a man, 'Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.'

He also showed Thomas evidence of the resurrection, telling him, 'be not faithless, but believing.'

IF you consider these scriptures, the book of John and the book of Acts, to be prophecies, why do you reject the teachings of these prophecies, and year after year spew out these confusing misinterpretations of I Corinthians? How do you remain in this confusion? Can you not see the scriptures and other words that are typed on your screen, or does the inability to comprehend occur in your mind somehow?

Also, Paul says 'forbid not to speak with tongues.' Do you not reject speaking in tongues? Of the posters here, who is the one who refuses to 'hear' God through speaking in tongues?
[/QUOTE]

 

[CherieR]

I have had a couple of times in the past when someone prayed for me to receive or be filled with the Holy Spirit. Once when I was in high school and I went to a church and someone put there hand on my head and prayed... nothing happened. The thing is though, at that time I may have had a prideful attitude or a I told so attitude after I did not sense anything happen. I don't know exactly how much I desired the Spirit then but maybe I did some since I did go up for prayer but I just can't remember too well. I don't remember my motivation for going up for prayer that time.

The other time I had someone pray for me to receive or be filled with the Spirit was in 2012 of May. I really desired the Holy Spirit. I was not seeking after the gift of tongues. I did not care so much about whether or not I got that gift. What I really wanted was to be able to call God my Father and to know I was his child. When I was prayed for that day, it was like nothing I had ever experienced. I felt God's presence like a fire and I felt overcome. Had I not grabbed onto the person nearby me, I may have even ended up on the ground because it seemed it me that I was falling. Since that time I have felt fine calling God Father where as before I did not. I still want to learn more about him and his word can be so wonderful at times.. I need to get more into it because there is so much encouragement in there.

 

[Noose]

A fulfilled prophecy can be a sign. Look again at the passage I quoted. And why don't you take a stab at interpreting it while you are at it, and write up your interpretation as to how tongues are for a sign.

Tongues are for a sign because they are a fulfillment of 'with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and yet for all that, they will not hear Me.'



So, then, are you just disagreeing with Paul that tongues are for a sign?



What does that have to do with what I posted about Isaiah. Paul's trying to persuade the Corinthians to engage in mutually edifying activities-- which means prophesying, tongues together with interpretation as opposed to just speaking in tongues, teaching, etc.



How does any of that scripture contradict what I say about Isaiah. The Isaiah prophecy together with Paul's application/interpretation of it argue that when unbelievers hear tongues, they respond with unbelief. It fits with Paul's argument against speaking out in uninterpreted tongues in church.



What behavior am I suggesting? Paul was encouraging the Corinthians to desire to prophesy and interpret tongues, and gave instructions regarding church order. I never said Paul was encouraging them to speak in uninterpreted tongues.



The problem with that is that it does not match the actual words on the page in Acts 2. Paul quoted a verse about the people NOT hearing God when He spoke through men of other lips and other tongues. That's the sign Paul talks about, not an Acts 2 situation. You have to actually follow Paul's argument, and your interpretation actually needs to fit the details there on the page in I Corinthians 14. Why don't you quote verse by verse and explain each verse in the relevant section and explain how Paul is really talking about people there present understanding the languages spoken in tongues. If you do that, then your posts aren't going to make sense because the chapter doesn't say that.

The Acts 2 situation with speaking in tongues where other's present understand is not mentioned here. Paul deals with a situation where others present understand the languages spoken and they way they can understand it is if the tongues are interpreted by a gift of the Holy Spirit.

1. You are obviously taking a wrong understanding of 1 Cor 14 and trying to base it on your interpretation of Isaiah's prophesy which is not working. In 1 Cor 14, Paul is trying to bring order in that church so that unbelievers or inquirers or outsiders should not come and say 'ye are mad'. When unbelievers say ye are mad, it's not a good thing for the church and is not fulfillment of any prophesy.

2. You rightly quote Isaiah when you say "with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people..", but what is spoken today does not qualify to be foreign tongues because they are nothing, no body ever uses them as language. And does it mean that a believing Jew can never speak in tongues because it was said "..in foreign tongues will i speak.."?

Foreign tongues as used in Isaiah, means an actual language being spoken by men or men who speak other real languages apart from Hebrew.

3. The correct interpretation, i already shown, is like when you come to me and preach to me the gospel in my own language when i know that you are not an original speaker of that language. This is a miracle or what we can refer to as a sign and wonder.

 

[presidente]

1. You are obviously taking a wrong understanding of 1 Cor 14 and trying to base it on your interpretation of Isaiah's prophesy which is not working. In 1 Cor 14, Paul is trying to bring order in that church so that unbelievers or inquirers or outsiders should not come and say 'ye are mad'. When unbelievers say ye are mad, it's not a good thing for the church and is not fulfillment of any prophesy.

Again, go verse by verse and try to make sense of Paul's use of the Isaiah prophesy using your interpretation. Paul is not talking about "when you come to me and preach to me the gospel in my own language". Look at the logical connecting words '...and yet for all that they will not hear me. Wherefore, tongues are for a sign..."

You may really, really, really want Paul to have been talking about preaching in tongues in a language the listener knows, but he isn't. He says of the one who speaks in tongues 'no man understandeth him.' Paul consistently deals with this issue throughout the chapter. He never addresses the issue of speaking in a tongue those present understand 'in tongues.' He refers to prophesying, teaching, etc. in the passage in a language the people understand.

2. You rightly quote Isaiah when you say "with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people..", but what is spoken today does not qualify to be foreign tongues because they are nothing, no body ever uses them as language. And does it mean that a believing Jew can never speak in tongues because it was said "..in foreign tongues will i speak.."?

Your all over the place here. Why don't we stick with interpreting the passsage while we are interpreting the passage. Your talking about whether modern speaking in tongues is real languages or not. Paul is talking about real languages, whhether languages of 'men' or 'of angels.'

Why would a believing Jew not be able to speak in a foreign language? The disciples did supernaturally in Acts 2, and many Jews back then spoke Greek, and others spoke Aramaic.

As far as speaking in tongues goes, if you don't know the language, it isn't going to mean much to you. There were cases of individuals reporting hearing their own languages at the Azusa Street revival in the early 1900's. There are also accounts of this in modern times. I spoke with a white lady who grew up a missionary's daughter in Hong Kong, and she'd heard an old lady in a village speak in tongues in English. Her father had heard people speak in tongues in English.

3. The correct interpretation, i already shown, is like when you come to me and preach to me the gospel in my own language when i know that you are not an original speaker of that language. This is a miracle or what we can refer to as a sign and wonder.

That happened in Acts 2, but I challenge you to show me one example in I Corinthians where someone present understands what is spoken in tongues without interpretation of tongues being referenced.

 

[presidente]

No such thing as a outward sign gift .

What do you mean by that? You apparently are using your own code language. People who don't believe in the operation of the gifts are usually the ones who use the term 'sign gift', but I suspect they mean something different from it than you do.

We walk by the faith of God, the unseen.

So did the disciples, and they did miracles. When Peter believed, he walked on water. When he doubted, he sank.

Remember God is no longer bringing any new revelations after any manner to include tongues .

You are wrong. If revelation were not ongoing, no one could be saved. No man knows the Father, but the Son, and He to Whom the Son reveals Him. Paul wrote, 'so that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

When Christ said 'Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. 'Was he commending him as a blessing or saying he has no faith as a curse ? The same with faithless Thomas ?

I do not think Jesus was calling the man a blessing. I can guess at your meaning. I'll guess and respond based on that guess. There are people who believe without seeing signs. Good for them. There are other people who believe after seeing evidence, like Thomas. Thomas missed out on the blessing that comes from not seeing, yet believing. Yet he still ended up having faith.

There may be people who believe easily who would have believed without a sign, but believe after seeing a sign. I'can't say.

It boils down to are signs to be desired and sought after and prophecy ignored ?

Are you asking a question? There are those who see signs and believe, and those who see signs and do not believe.

We hear God through the language we are familiar with called tongues.

Paul wrote of the one who spoke in tongues, "no man understandeth him".

God does all the interpreting . He does not say ask the other guy.

You should read I Corinthians 12-14 then before posting about it. Paul lists interpretation of tongues among the manifestation of the Spirit. He tells the one who speaks in tongues to pray that he may interpret. These are interesting passages. You should read them.

I know what it reads. Sign are for those who believe not prophecy.

No, that is the made up doctrine in your head that is not in the Bible. Your painting with a much broader brush than the Bible does. The disciples asked Jesus the sign of His coming and of the end of the age. He answered them. He did not accuse them of not believing prophecy for asking the question.

 

[p_rehbein]

Can someone explain to me the uniqueness of this gift of speaking in tongues which most congregations in my neighbourhood insist on acquiring? Is it in any way superior to or more edifying than other gifts?

Go to school, take a foreign language class........soon enough you will be speaking in tongues.......there........

 

[CS1]

Whether it is blasphemy or not...like I said I don't know. I'm sure it would be different for someone to do something out of immaturity or ignorance than someone who gets up knowing that it is not of God and do it just because they want to look like they have some big gift or message from God and deceive people saying that the Holy Ghost is speaking through them when it is not... I don't know how God judges that but it's not something I want to do and find out later, or anything... just saying.


As far as knowing whether it is fake or not. That is where discernment comes in and people need to be prayed up and be able to discern the voice of the Lord. Prophecy will bear out. The Holy Ghost never misses it, and if you get a prophecy that misses it then you can be sure that it was not of God or the Holy Ghost. I've had prophecies before that were for sure from God and no way the person giving it could have known all the details in it and what was said came to pass. Then again I've had a prophecy that totally missed it and made me feel so bad and had an awful feeling with it...kind of felt like I was spiritually violated by it....and it did not come to pass because it was not from God. And if that bad experience, had been my first or was the only experience that I had ever had with it then I would probably be like most and stay as far away from it as I could get.

As far as being able to do it whenever you want to just because you have the gift. I think it is like healing and any other gift. It is from the Spirit and you have to wait on the Spirit. People with the gift of healing can't just go heal anyone anytime they want to they have to wait on the Spirit so why wouldn't the same go for any other gift. Again this is my understanding on it.

Used to be that churches would say pray and make sure that you wait upon the Spirit. However, a lot of churches today are encouraging people to learn words and speak in tongues and not wait upon the Spirit. So now there is a lot of fake things going on because now many people don't wait on the gift from the Spirit. They think they can just do it anytime they want to. Just make up some words, give out a prophecy and then when those prophecies fail they wonder why people think the whole thing is just a sham and tongues or prophecy no longer exists. It's plain to see that it is because of the fakers.

Matthew 12:30-32, - Mark 3:28—30 Jesus and the context Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is here as it was said by Jesus. Many mock the speaking in an unlearned language yet many here do not even know the grammatical rules of the English language. Not one verse you gave to establish a biblical truth. You did not speak on Acts 2 nor of 1cor 12 14 chapters. you speak of error as you stated

"a lot of churches today are encouraging people to learn words and speak in tongues and not wait upon the Spirit."


And a lot of church do wait on the Holy Spirit and a lot of them DO not encourage to learn a word to speak. Your bias blinds you.

your concern about the fake? you said you were violated I'm sorry to hear that, guess what, it happens. Get over it. If people would read the Bible and 1cor 12 to 14 it is clear how not to be violated. You are already convinced you to say

"tongues or prophecy no longer exists. It's plain to see that it is because of the fakers."


You're a hateful person because you were wounded and never got over it. it's not a sham it's a shame you are hateful and angry.

 

[CS1]

The Holy Spirit is a gentlemen. We can submit and surrender to him. I believe he can help us with that and he encourages us to do so. He is also powerful... very powerful but gentle and kind. Just like Jesus.

There is this story that a person told ,whom I have met and talked with many times, about when he was "baptized " with the Spirit. He gave the Lord I think two days to baptize him with the Spirit and if he does that, he would be his minister. During that time he stopped praying and he stopped reading his bible because he thought if he prays he might start speaking in tongues. It did not work though. At some point, he was standing by a wall and then started speaking in tongues.

all that is nice an all but is not scriptural anyone who would stop reading the bible and praying clearly has issues. Your experience only confirms your friend was immature and needed to be discipled

 

[notuptome]

If you can not see your words here are insulting and not one Bible verse in your comment as you allude to "The Bible never gets old " you are not the bible. Drop it do not respond to me as i have asked you not to do. Last time .
thank you.

I will agree to stop responding to you if you commit to stop imposing your opinions on this subject into the threads.

if you can't see it, then it is best you do not address me as you and I do not agree on this topic. Ok

I do not expect you to agree with me but I do expect you to agree with the bible. I would not be a good steward of Gods word if I stood silently aside and allowed the promotion of error to go unchallenged. You have a tendency to be demeaning and insulting but I choose to be gracious and allow it to pass.

We have been over the verses many times sadly to no avail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

Again, go verse by verse and try to make sense of Paul's use of the Isaiah prophesy using your interpretation. Paul is not talking about "when you come to me and preach to me the gospel in my own language". Look at the logical connecting words '...and yet for all that they will not hear me. Wherefore, tongues are for a sign..."

You may really, really, really want Paul to have been talking about preaching in tongues in a language the listener knows, but he isn't. He says of the one who speaks in tongues 'no man understandeth him.' Paul consistently deals with this issue throughout the chapter. He never addresses the issue of speaking in a tongue those present understand 'in tongues.' He refers to prophesying, teaching, etc. in the passage in a language the people understand.




Your all over the place here. Why don't we stick with interpreting the passsage while we are interpreting the passage. Your talking about whether modern speaking in tongues is real languages or not. Paul is talking about real languages, whhether languages of 'men' or 'of angels.'

Why would a believing Jew not be able to speak in a foreign language? The disciples did supernaturally in Acts 2, and many Jews back then spoke Greek, and others spoke Aramaic.

As far as speaking in tongues goes, if you don't know the language, it isn't going to mean much to you. There were cases of individuals reporting hearing their own languages at the Azusa Street revival in the early 1900's. There are also accounts of this in modern times. I spoke with a white lady who grew up a missionary's daughter in Hong Kong, and she'd heard an old lady in a village speak in tongues in English. Her father had heard people speak in tongues in English.



That happened in Acts 2, but I challenge you to show me one example in I Corinthians where someone present understands what is spoken in tongues without interpretation of tongues being referenced.

Ok, let's take it slow here maybe i'll get you.

1 Cor 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

What does Paul mean with "..intelligible words with your tongue.."

Q1. Can tongues be intelligible words to the listener or must it be non intelligible?

 

[1ofthem]

Matthew 12:30-32, - Mark 3:28—30 Jesus and the context Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is here as it was said by Jesus. Many mock the speaking in an unlearned language yet many here do not even know the grammatical rules of the English language. Not one verse you gave to establish a biblical truth. You did not speak on Acts 2 nor of 1cor 12 14 chapters. you speak of error as you stated

"a lot of churches today are encouraging people to learn words and speak in tongues and not wait upon the Spirit."


And a lot of church do wait on the Holy Spirit and a lot of them DO not encourage to learn a word to speak. Your bias blinds you.

your concern about the fake? you said you were violated I'm sorry to hear that, guess what, it happens. Get over it. If people would read the Bible and 1cor 12 to 14 it is clear how not to be violated. You are already convinced you to say

"tongues or prophecy no longer exists. It's plain to see that it is because of the fakers."


You're a hateful person because you were wounded and never got over it. it's not a sham it's a shame you are hateful and angry.

This post was not necessary. I do believe in speaking in tongues. Oh and I have been over it sir. Like I said I do still believe in it. I am not hateful or angry about what happened to me, but careful. The Bible tells us to test the spirits, and that is what any Christian will do. You can't just trust that everyone has the right Spirit and the genuine gifts or you will be deceived because not everyone does and that is the God's honest truth.

So yeah, I do believe in speaking in tongues and the other signs....but there is a genuine and a fake. So people better be careful what they are following. Anyone walks off with another spirit and the Bible says you might well bear with it. So people can pray and wait on the Holy Ghost or they can do as they wish, but they might get a hold of something (some other spirit) that will be hard to get rid of.

No where, did I say that all churches were faking it and not waiting on the Spirit. I said the gift is of the Spirit and you have to wait on the Spirit, and that is the truth. If people are not waiting on the Spirit then it is not real, and they are only deceiving themselves and others.

So either you are taking me wrong here or maybe I am taking you wrong...but if people are not waiting on the Spirit then it is a sham and a shame and I'm sure they will pay for bringing reproach upon the gifts by faking it. Now I'm only talking about the fakers here because like I said there is a real thing and a fake thing.

So I don't know where you are getting that I am hateful or angry.

 

[1ofthem]

Oh and anyone could ask Ananias and Sapphire about lying to the Holy Ghost...but they died for it, right. And I know that was just about some money but I mean really sounds like people need to be careful, right.

They came up to people who had the gift of discernment through the Holy Ghost and tried to lie, and that definitely didn't work out so well for them did it?

 

[Kavik]

“yup you can't make yourself speak in tongues – “

My reply -
Of course you can - it's a completely learned behaviour. Anyone can do it if you're not afraid to play with the sounds of your language.

A few quoted comments to the above and my answers –

“Noo you can't...otherwise, it wouldn't be a gift.”

This is a “condensed” version of a post I had written a while back on ‘spiritual gifts’….sorry for the length.

I don’t hold the same view with respect to ‘gifts of the Holy Spirit’ or ‘spiritual gifts’ –

They were never referred to as “spiritual gifts”, but rather “spiritual matters/things”. Many people refer to these as gifts; they are not, they are manifestations – the ‘evidence’, if you will, that the H/S is at work.

I would argue that any natural (God-given) talent may be said to be a “spiritual gift” if used in the ministry of God. Paul describes nine specific ones in his letter to the church in Corinth that he felt were the most important to further the message of Christianity in that church at that time and perhaps also in that area/place of the world.

The spiritual “gift of tongues” (read “manifestation of languages”) in addition to being a knack/ability, what we might call a “natural (or even “God given”) talent” for learning languages easily than others, it is, as far as Paul was concerned, using that ability in spreading the message of Christianity and to the further glory of God.

Anyone can be granted the ‘gift/ability/knack’ for great wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing abilities, etc., just as anyone can be granted the ability to easily learn languages and/or translate those languages. But it’s how that gift/ability/talent is used that determines/defines it as a ‘manifestation of the H/S”.

Take a totally different ‘gift’ – music. A person may be a ‘gifted’ musician, have the ability/knack/talent, etc. to easily learn to play all sorts of instruments, or to excel at singing, or composing, etc.

For such a person, I would say that they have a God-given ‘gift’ for music. Sure, just about anyone can learn to play an instrument, or to sing, or even compose, but there are those who we say are truly ‘gifted’ at it. Their ability/talent far exceeds the ‘norm’.

Can we say that this is a God-given gift? Yes, I think so. Can it be considered a gift/manifestation of the H/S? I would say if that ability is somehow used in the service of God in whatever way, such that through this ability one could sort of ‘see the power of God’ or the H/S working though this person (that’s probably not the best way to put it, but the only way I can think of to try and explain what I mean by it), then, yes, I would say that it is a manifestation of the H/S. I think that what’s being ‘manifested’ is not so much the particular ability, but rather for an ‘onlooker’ to see the power of God working through this person to further the glory of God (if that makes any sense).

So does that mean that if one has such an ability/gift and doesn’t use it ‘in the service of God‘, that it’s not a ‘gift’? No, I don’t think so. It is a God-given gift; but, it’s not really a manifestation of the H/S either.

In a sense, I think, one could almost argue that that there are two separate concepts here – the gift itself, and one could certainly argue that it’s a gift given by the H/S, and the ‘manifestation of the H/S’ through that gift. That seems to require that the gift be somehow used to further the glory of God.

“that is opinionated and not what the word of God says.”

There is absolutely no passage in the Bible referring to “tongues” that cannot be explained in light of real, rational, language.

There is a preconceived notion among certain Christian groups that “tongues” are somehow divine and even somewhat mysterious. They are not; they are simply real languages known by the speaker (their native language), but not always known to the hearer.

Christian tongues-speakers need a way to validate the phenomenon. Misunderstood and often times (historically) deliberately misinterpreted references to “tongues” in the Bible as something they never were, provide that vehicle.

The Pentecostal movement, for example, completely redefined their understanding and teaching of tongues within a few years in the early 1900’s.


“The gift of the Holy Spirit is different. The language might be of angels or of men but it will still be a language however you slice it.”

No, sorry – no matter how you slice and dice it, modern “tongues” are not language at all – too long to post here, but for a discussion on why tongues are not language, have a look at the following blog post:

https://christianchat.com/blogs/why-“tongues”-are-not-language-part-1-of-2.176664/

There are two parts – as I state in the entry; it’s not a quick and easy answer; but, if you read through both parts, you’ll get a better understanding of what exactly modern tongues are and why they are not language.

 

[presidente]

Ok, let's take it slow here maybe i'll get you.

1 Cor 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

What does Paul mean with "..intelligible words with your tongue.."

Q1. Can tongues be intelligible words to the listener or must it be non intelligible?

Paul's solution to this is that tongues be interpreted so that the congregation can be edified.

 

[Noose]

Paul's solution to this is that tongues be interpreted so that the congregation can be edified.

So you think tongues are a problem that need a solution?

Paul is saying, 'speak intelligible words with your tongue', Paul is not saying, 'speak interpret-able words with your tongue'. IOW, Paul is saying speak a language that people can understand, that whole chapter, Paul insists on understanding and it's only through understanding that people are edified.

To a Spanish congregation, speak Spanish, if you are going to speak another language then there must be at least two people in the congregation that have the gift to interpret it to Spanish for the benefit of others, otherwise shut up.

All these things ceased in the 1st century, what we have today has nothing to do with God.

 

[presidente]

Kavik

I was wondering id you still held to the diglossia interpretation of Acts 2? That's got to be one of the worst interpretations of the passage I have seen and runs contrary to the words on the page, what I have read of history, and the way the earliest Greek-reading interpreters that I am aware of interpreted the passage. I am glad that is not how you explain tongues in I Corinthians.

Paul does call the manifestations of the Spirit in I Corinthians 12 'charismata' which is related to the word for grace and is translated gift or spiritual gift.

The problem with just seeing these gifts as having a knack or something is... who just has a knack for performing miracles or prophesying.

I know two languages well enough to just interpret from one to the other. In I Cor. 14:13 one is told to pray that he may interpret.

In the early Pentecostal mo ement, according to those who were there, there were people speaking in the tongues of the immigrant communities, which helped draw the crowds. A man from India identified a tomg the missionary AG Garr spoke in as his own. But AG Garr found he could not speak in the tongue of his hoosing and make it the language of the country he was in. Some of the ideas some of the early Pentecostals had about speaking in tongues and evangelism were theological assumptions.

ccassionallt, Pentecostals have spoken in the tongues of those present. There ate mane accounts of Assemblies of God missionaries doing such things. I knew another missionary who had that experience, too. I spoke with someone who heard a grandma in a village in China speaking in tongues, also.

That is not the norm for church meetings since it is not what Paul desvribes regarding a church context in I Corinthians 14.

 

[CS1]

I will agree to stop responding to you if you commit to stop imposing your opinions on this subject into the threads.

I do not expect you to agree with me but I do expect you to agree with the bible. I would not be a good steward of Gods word if I stood silently aside and allowed the promotion of error to go unchallenged. You have a tendency to be demeaning and insulting but I choose to be gracious and allow it to pass.

We have been over the verses many times sadly to no avail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I will allow you to have the last word. because it is only opinionated. I have yet to see you post one verse. I have asked you not to address me, yet you will respect my request. You are bully . and I will not have it with me or others.

 

[1ofthem]

"tongues or prophecy no longer exists. It's plain to see that it is because of the fakers."


You're a hateful person because you were wounded and never got over it. it's not a sham it's a shame you are hateful and angry.

Ok, I read your post again and I think this is where you misunderstood me. I didn't say that I think tongues and prophecy no longer existed.

I said that people faking it and missing it has caused many people to believe that. If all someone has ever saw or been around was the fakers and have never had any dealing with the true or genuine then I can see why they might be scared and uncertain about it. To me that is just common sense and that is why I am sure that the fakers who are just faking it are going to pay for bringing a reproach on it.

But to make myself clear there is a real and Genuine gift and I believe in it and that it is still at work...

 

[CS1]

This post was not necessary. I do believe in speaking in tongues. Oh and I have been over it sir. Like I said I do still believe in it. I am not hateful or angry about what happened to me, but careful. The Bible tells us to test the spirits, and that is what any Christian will do. You can't just trust that everyone has the right Spirit and the genuine gifts or you will be deceived because not everyone does and that is the God's honest truth.

So yeah, I do believe in speaking in tongues and the other signs....but there is a genuine and a fake. So people better be careful what they are following. Anyone walks off with another spirit and the Bible says you might well bear with it. So people can pray and wait on the Holy Ghost or they can do as they wish, but they might get a hold of something (some other spirit) that will be hard to get rid of.

No where, did I say that all churches were faking it and not waiting on the Spirit. I said the gift is of the Spirit and you have to wait on the Spirit, and that is the truth. If people are not waiting on the Spirit then it is not real, and they are only deceiving themselves and others.

So either you are taking me wrong here or maybe I am taking you wrong...but if people are not waiting on the Spirit then it is a sham and a shame and I'm sure they will pay for bringing reproach upon the gifts by faking it. Now I'm only talking about the fakers here because like I said there is a real thing and a fake thing.

So I don't know where you are getting that I am hateful or angry.

Test the spirit, could you explain what that means and show me where in the Bible the context as your understanding of the verse means?

 

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Ok, I read your post again and I think this is where you misunderstood me. I didn't say that I think tongues and prophecy no longer existed.

I said that people faking it and missing it has caused many people to believe that. If all someone has ever saw or been around was the fakers and have never had any dealing with the true or genuine then I can see why they might be scared and uncertain about it. To me that is just common sense and that is why I am sure that the fakers who are just faking it are going to pay for bringing a reproach on it.

But to make myself clear there is a real and Genuine gift and I believe in it and that it is still at work...

Ok no problem I agree with you on that point and say amen too.