Gay stuff, not saying which way to judge, but hear the person before you judge

[Lillywolf]

maybe people should watch the video. it's pretty revealing

at 10:06 the female pastor speaks of honoring the pride theme for that year and prior she mentions they are in the pride parade and wears a mickey mouse hat with rainbow ears

that is not what witnessing is about.

at 17 minutes the entire church is mouthing (to God supposedly) 'free us from the closets of secrecy and give us the guts and grace to come out' grace is not about admitting you are homosexual. the grace of God is there for the forgiveness of sins

it continues 'with the yellow stripe in the rainbow, build our confidence'

it just goes from bad to worse and there is nothing of redeeming value in it, but just the usual worldly agenda

it should be noted that the United Church, of which the church in the video is one, allows homosexuals to participate but do not ordain them however they do 'affirm' them

watch the video to see what this affirming is about

how does a church affirm homosexuals without undermining what the Bible says?

attending and affirming are not two sides of the same coin. they contradict each other

For my part, I spoke to the question itself; Should the church be gay welcoming?
I didn't watch the video and should have noted that in my reply. However, I did not since someone did so already and for their reasons. And I thought it may be depressing for the OP to have yet another member say they aren't up to watching an hours worth of preaching on a YT video.

I've made my point in a different thread about churches that welcome unrepentant homosexuals into the offices of the church. Or allow for their marriage in that church. It's contrary to the scriptures and denotes an apostate church if one does permit this to occur. And that means that structure then is no church of God at all.
My point is concerning those so called Christians that would never permit gays to attend a sermon in church. Those types are pathetic and are then apostate and no Christian at all. It matters not where their backside sits. In a church or in the midst of their own failings.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

So how can we then say we would never accept gays into the structure, the house of God as some call the physical building location that is their church, when they are there because they were called by God? Who are we to bar their entry so as to hear the words of God preached? That they may hearken to the call to repentance of their many sins, as were we once one with them in that regard, and that would in the homosexual's case, include homosexuality.

affirming homosexual practice is not witnessing to them

I think folks are responding to the idea of allowing homosexuals to practice their sin and participate in church rather than saying they cannot attend church

like I said, the video is speaking of affirming homosexual union while joining in a gay parade and celebrating the gay 'theme' of the year

the homosexual agenda is to be not only accepted, but to be regarded as 'normal' Christians who are not sinning

that, is what most are aware of and what most do NOT want to invade their churches

and yes, we do gather in buildings. it's very helpful when it is snowing or pouring rain

 

[Lillywolf]

The Churches of Antichrist salute you!

I'd rethink making such an ignorant remark. The only way someone would know that is if they were in attendance. Sarcasm for some is the art of covering the fact they're not capable of mature thought or discourse. Don't be one of those. God knows there are enough of those type on forums as it is.

 

[Lillywolf]

affirming homosexual practice is not witnessing to them...

Best to read all of my post so as to know what I'm talking about so you then can appear to do the same when talking to me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

For my part, I spoke to the question itself; Should the church be gay welcoming?
I didn't watch the video and should have noted that in my reply. However, I did not since someone did so already and for their reasons. And I thought it may be depressing for the OP to have yet another member say they aren't up to watching an hours worth of preaching on a YT video.

I've made my point in a different thread about churches that welcome unrepentant homosexuals into the offices of the church. Or allow for their marriage in that church. It's contrary to the scriptures and denotes an apostate church if one does permit this to occur. And that means that structure then is no church of God at all.
My point is concerning those so called Christians that would never permit gays to attend a sermon in church. Those types are pathetic and are then apostate and no Christian at all. It matters not where their backside sits. In a church or in the midst of their own failings.

I think addressing the vid is actually important, hour long or not, because for some reason, the op seemed to be of the mind that maybe we should listen with an 'open mind'

if an open mind includes affirming homosexuals then someone is falling for the agenda

again, as I said above, I think the main concern is allowing practicing homosexuals to achieve their agenda

I'm Canadian (living in the US) and right now, in Canada, it is against the law to say anything anti homosexual and that applies in churches as well

so it becomes ok for homosexuals to trample OUR rights, while demanding their 'rights'

I think we basically agree

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Best to read all of my post so as to know what I'm talking about so you then can appear to do the same when talking to me.

please...I am not doing what you say here

works in reverse also

I am discussing the video not people and the effects of this affirming which is not credible with any biblical basis

 

[Lillywolf]

I think addressing the vid is actually important, hour long or not, because for some reason, the op seemed to be of the mind that maybe we should listen with an 'open mind'

if an open mind includes affirming homosexuals then someone is falling for the agenda

again, as I said above, I think the main concern is allowing practicing homosexuals to achieve their agenda

I'm Canadian (living in the US) and right now, in Canada, it is against the law to say anything anti homosexual and that applies in churches as well

so it becomes ok for homosexuals to trample OUR rights, while demanding their 'rights'

I think we basically agree

please...I am not doing what you say here

works in reverse also

I am discussing the video not people and the effects of this affirming which is not credible with any biblical basis

You quoted me when you replied. That's why it appeared you were speaking to me. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

a Christian baker should not be forced to make a wedding cake for a gay couple who have gone out of their way to hire a baker whom they know will dissent

same goes for wedding photographers.

a Christian should have the freedom to express what the Bible says without worrying about a gay agenda

I wish people could or would differentiate here and not be fooled by the gay agenda

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You quoted me when you replied. That's why it appeared you were speaking to me. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

yeah no problem

in my mind, I was just addressing someone thinking Christians say gays should not even be allowed into a church...in a general sense

so you don't read minds? (jking)

sometimes when a thread moves along quickly, things can get crossed

 

[Lillywolf]

a Christian baker should not be forced to make a wedding cake for a gay couple who have gone out of their way to hire a baker whom they know will dissent

same goes for wedding photographers.

a Christian should have the freedom to express what the Bible says without worrying about a gay agenda

I wish people could or would differentiate here and not be fooled by the gay agenda

That's a totally different topic than the OP wouldn't you agree? One topic concerns the ecclesiastical realm. The other that of the secular and the public service contract one enters when obtaining a trade business license with the secular state.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That's a totally different topic than the OP wouldn't you agree? One topic concerns the ecclesiastical realm. The other that of the secular and the public service contract one enters when obtaining a trade business license with the secular state.

it's the amount of time I've been in this forum

after multiple and numerous threads on this topic, it just comes natural

I do disagree though. I think it is important to keep in mind the gay agenda but it is also true not all gays are a part of it even if they benefit from it

that's how I see it anyway

 

[7seasrekeyed]

anyway, and not to bore anyone, but watching the vid is not what I would have expected or garnered from the op's remarks

that rainbow prayer is part of the congregation's prayer...just leading on everyone in the church until they see homosexual practice as ok

 

[Lillywolf]

yeah no problem

in my mind, I was just addressing someone thinking Christians say gays should not even be allowed into a church...in a general sense

so you don't read minds? (jking)

No, not since I lost my turban in Cheboygan .

 

[preacher4truth]

"I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say. "
Deuteronomy 1:17

In 2011 the later to fall into bankruptcy due to poor money management "Crystal Cathedral" and its woman preacher/daughter of the deceased founder, made news when she insisted the church choir sign an "anti-gay covenant".

First to get something out of the way. The phrase, love the sinner hate the sin, is not found anywhere in scripture.
It can be inferred as a message in scripture but it is simply not written in scripture. God's word in the OT tells us he hates sin and sinners (Psalms 5:5 , Leviticus 20:23) and in the NT we're informed God does not even hear their prayers, John 9:31.

To continue.
God bless a gay welcoming church.
I've talked with those who claim Christ about this issue. Were it in their purview they'd stand at the door and physically bar those they thought were homosexual from entering.
Those are what I like to call, idiots.

We're told God does not live in houses built by our hands. Acts 7:48 and 17:24. And yet, people travel on various days of the week to meet in His name in a church. When we're told the body of Christ, the true church, is in the numbered faithful who are in Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27.
And that number then are those who have repented and been born again according to the promise and the covenant will of God.

So how can we then say we would never accept gays into the structure, the house of God as some call the physical building location that is their church, when they are there because they were called by God? Who are we to bar their entry so as to hear the words of God preached? That they may hearken to the call to repentance of their many sins, as were we once one with them in that regard, and that would in the homosexual's case, include homosexuality. And then enter into the body of Christ and the spiritual church.

We cannot and expect to take our seat in any church and actually be worthy of taking up that space. It is as simple as that.

It all depends on what one means by allowing sodomites into their church.

Such as this: Accept them into the church membership in their unrepentant state and practice of sin as members in good standing, that is, as if they've come to repentance and genuine conversion and yet have not.

Any church that merely refuses to allow them to attend to hear Gospel truth is another matter.

Yet again, the evangelizing should be taking place outside the meeting place of the church. Somehow this has been backwards and people feel it is the place to "win souls". Nothing wrong with winning souls in the gathering, but the purpose of the meeting is to edify saints, worship in the word, partake of the Lord's supper &c.

 

[Lillywolf]

it's the amount of time I've been in this forum

after multiple and numerous threads on this topic, it just comes natural

I do disagree though. I think it is important to keep in mind the gay agenda but it is also true not all gays are a part of it even if they benefit from it

that's how I see it anyway

I do agree there is a gay agenda. And yes, its activists will avail themselves of any opportunity to push that agenda.
Really, and this is just my take on it, I haven't researched the history as pertains. I think the agenda got motivated when the homosexual community claimed the rainbow as its community flag without a push back from Christians. Regardless of the excuse the "founder" of that flag used for his choosing those colors for their identity emblem.

After that I think the community of zealous activists figured they could do anything. There's a book that was written by two homosexual lawyers back in the 90's I think it was. "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays" .
When small screen television writers who were gay got wind of that that's when we started, if you're old enough to remember these shows, seeing homosexual characters brought to TV. Like, "Soap", and its character played by Billy Crystal, Jody Dallas. Then there was the introduction of cross dressers. That would be Tom Hanks and his co-star in, Bosom Buddies.
And lots of others along the way so as to arrive where we are now.
With cable programs upholding of all things life in a woman' prison. "Orange Is The New Black". Where not only are there openly gay women but there's a Transsexual male who dresses as a woman. But notice? Most of those keep their package? They don't feel all that female on the inside do they.

The world is falling more and more because now we've evolved to a point where the closet is being cleaned and prepared for Christians. And the key holders are the damned.



But that doesn't mean gays should never be allowed to enter church. No open displays of course. We can still throw them out if that happens so that they don't take over in that regard. They have no inviolable rights in a church after all. If the separation clause can let freak militant atheists to threaten school kids if they dare think to thank God during their graduation speech, let it hold for the Christian pastor that tells two french kissing men daring the church to act when he throws them out on their oft used backside.

My point about church is the church structure should be welcoming of anyone sincere of heart seeking to hear God's word preached.
Besides, when encountering those aforementioned idiots that would keep gays out by barring the door, there arrives this dumbfounded glazed look in their eye when I ask them how they'd identify who was gay when they were standing on the steps approaching the church door?
Is there a scarlet H letter on the forehead that appears to only those with the discerning baptized eye?

If God knows the heart how can any human who claims to know God claim they're sure God didn't send that homosexual of sincere intent to sit and listen to the word?

 

[preacher4truth]

the above is a link to a gay welcoming Church.

I post it neither as an endorsement nor the opposite.

I think somewhere in the Gospels it talks about it's not good to judge a person before you hear what he has to say.

the preacher was saying something about wanting the people in the congregation to hear something from God that morning.


something I heard that I'd never thought of before was that apparently in UCC churches, probably other liturgical churches such as Catholic or Episcopal, the book they read the gospel out of is left open after the reading.
he talks about this at about 33:45
he says that the symbolizes that God is still speaking to his people. an interesting thought, I thought.

Quite unbiblical this thing about not judging them before you hear them (as if there is something they can say to justify themselves.) No amount of talk, words, explaining or defending can remove ANY person out from under God's wrath and condemnation that abides on them outside of Christ. No one gets "their say" as if there is some sort of excuse for their position. This includes all sinners, sodomite, or otherwise.

We must remember this is the state of all the lost.

All the world (outside of Christ) is lost, Romans 3:19&c, under God's wrath, Ephesians 2:3, and condemned, John 3:16ff.

 

[Lillywolf]

It all depends on what one means by allowing sodomites into their church.

Such as this: Accept them into the church membership in their unrepentant state and practice of sin as members in good standing, that is, as if they've come to repentance and genuine conversion and yet have not.

Any church that merely refuses to allow them to attend to hear Gospel truth is another matter.

Yet again, the evangelizing should be taking place outside the meeting place of the church. Somehow this has been backwards and people feel it is the place to "win souls". Nothing wrong with winning souls in the gathering, but the purpose of the meeting is to edify saints, worship in the word, partake of the Lord's supper &c.

As for my view since you quoted my post, I was really clear about the answer to that. The mistake you've made is to think it is "your" church.
It isn't.

And on the whole if a church thinks to bar one kind of sinner from entry into the church so as to hear the word of God preached, they'd best consider what they're saying is a sin first of all. Because it shows a predisposition of bigotry against one particular community of sinners.
When all who are not yet saved are dead in their many sins. And that then would mean in the case of making a rule against sinners entering, make for a very empty church. Because if only the saved are allowed in the church serves no real purpose in matters of spreading the good news that would then not be good news at all when there exists a rule forbidding sinners from entering so as to learn what the good news means.

Christians know the difference between being in a church structure and being one in the body of the church that is Christ.

 

[Lillywolf]

Quite unbiblical this thing about not judging them before you hear them (as if there is something they can say to justify themselves.) No amount of talk, words, explaining or defending can remove ANY person out from under God's wrath and condemnation that abides on them outside of Christ. No one gets "their say" as if there is some sort of excuse for their position. This includes all sinners, sodomite, or otherwise.

We must remember this is the state of all the lost.

All the world (outside of Christ) is lost, Romans 3:19&c, under God's wrath, Ephesians 2:3, and condemned, John 3:16ff.

I knew the screen name was not identifying an actual preacher.

You missed the scripture in Leviticus that was posted here to prove your first sentence that which is actually not Biblical.

 

[preacher4truth]

I knew the screen name was not identifying an actual preacher.

You missed the scripture in Leviticus that was posted here to prove your first sentence that which is actually not Biblical.

Actually what I said is completely biblical.

Are you speaking of Deuteronomy 1:17?

If you are, that context has nothing at all to do with the context of this debate, thread, or subject.

You're clueless as to what you're talking about but I was aware of this from other posts you've made on this site.

Oh, and I'm an actual preacher: Reformed Baptist.

 

[preacher4truth]

As for my view since you quoted my post, I was really clear about the answer to that. The mistake you've made is to think it is "your" church.
It isn't.

And on the whole if a church thinks to bar one kind of sinner from entry into the church so as to hear the word of God preached, they'd best consider what they're saying is a sin first of all. Because it shows a predisposition of bigotry against one particular community of sinners.
When all who are not yet saved are dead in their many sins. And that then would mean in the case of making a rule against sinners entering, make for a very empty church. Because if only the saved are allowed in the church serves no real purpose in matters of spreading the good news that would then not be good news at all when there exists a rule forbidding sinners from entering so as to learn what the good news means.

Christians know the difference between being in a church structure and being one in the body of the church that is Christ.

Obviously you either do not read what is said, or just don't care. I've made no "mistake" as you falsely assert. It is you who are making mistakes and going off on some sort of ignorant, baseless rant.