Sex before marriage: a poll

[selfdissolving]

You are right but my point is, God's view of marriage is very simple - a man shall leave his parents and be enjoined to a woman and the two shall be one.

Q. In what ways does a boyfriend/Girlfriend (of the right age of course) relationship fail to meet this criteria?

I totally understand why weddings and all these traditions were recommended; to publicize the marriage and bring discipline around married people and those that are not married. Like i'm not supposed to go around misbehaving with someone's wife if it was already publicly declared that she is now someone's wife.

But weddings have been turned into oath taking and promise making ceremonies nowadays. I believe this is the reason satan is attacking many marriages. Jesus said:

Matt 5:33“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

A marriage is a commitment to share your life with someone. In marriage you are truly joined to your partner for life. Your spouse takes the place of your parents as your main support system. This is not the case with boyfriend girlfriend relationships. Lifelong commitment is not a priority, it's more like "as long as we are getting along and things are going well we will stay together." In light of this, how can a boyfriend/girlfriend truly fulfill the role of the main support system in a persons life? Your parents are your parents for life, your wife is your wife for life, your girlfriend/boyfriend is only around while the going is good. Remember, marriage is symbolic of the relationship of Jesus to his Church. He will never leave us or forsake us, no matter if the going is good or not. He isnt just flirting around with us to see if he likes us enough to keep us around. We are in a permanent union with him for the rest of our eternal lives

As far as the contents of the marriage ceremony itself, we are free to choose since Scripture does not prescribe any specifications for the ceremony. What matters is a true and binding commitment to spend the rest of your life with your spouse, just like how Jesus and the Church both desire to truly be committed to each other for eternity. Modern marriage ceremonies are meant to be symbolic of these inward desires for commitment. The two who are being joined vocalize and bring forth the profession of the desire for commitment in the sight of their families and friends, much in the same way that the confession of commitment to Christ is vocalized publicly.

Symbolism in modern marriage ceremonies is similar to ancient Jewish ceremonies in that it conveys a deeper spiritual truth about the relationship of Jesus to his Church. You have the bride dressed in white, wearing a veil, being escorted to the altar by her father. Once arriving at the altar, the veil is removed by her husband and she sees his face clearly. Then the two are joined in the sight of all and then a marriage supper is held to celebrate

As far as taking of oaths in regards to Matthew 5:33-37, the point of that passage is to refrain from calling on God to witness to the truthfulness of a statement. If you are telling the truth, you do not need to call on God as witness. By calling on God as witness you cast doubt on the truthfulness of your statement. For example, there is a big difference between saying "I swear to God that I am going to cut the grass today." and "Yes, i'm going to cut the grass today." and then actually cutting the grass like you said you would.

If we tell the truth we do not need to invoke God as witness.

So in the context of a marriage ceremony, it would be best to remove all the "Do you solemnly swear" parts and exchange it with "Will you" and then actually do it. Make your yes a yes.

Thank you for this lively discussion

 

[selfdissolving]

Very interesting CC discussion and polling; which collectively is intriguing of itself - especially given yesterday's deep discussions on "Loneliness"...

"I find that we are all such sinners that it is better to leave the judging to God." Mahatma Gandhi
"Hate the sin, love the sinner." Mahatma Gandhi

"Nowhere in the Bible, however, do we find God distinguishing between levels of sin. God doesn't share our rating system. To him, all sin is equally evil, and all sinners are equally lovable." Judah Smith

"Sinners judging sinners for sinning differently." unknown
"A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints." Pauline Phillips (aka Dear Abby)

"Single, married, engaged, divorced whatever... we're all sinners and all saved by Christ's grace.
The illumination that marriage gives of Christ's redemption is one that I'd like to apply to my life as a single person.
Not dreading the inevitable storms of marriage, but taking joy from the fact that the same redemption I'll be receiving in marriage is what I'm receiving now!" Lindsay Debak

I do commend Seoulsearch's approach to expanding the polling questions in an effort to capture the breadth of the response space and ensuring the questions are written in a consistent, independent and objective manner to limit the potential for biasing the plausible responses...
I hypothesize that the context, wording and limited number of questions provided in the poll - have inadvertently (or otherwise) resulted in a 'false-positive' or a false level of confidence in the perceived outcome...

i would gladly expand the polling question options to include the option of making your own response, but i cant figure out how to do that. Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[Lynx]

Too bad he has no formal training to speak about men's and women's brains.

Entertaining fiction.

I agree with the analogies about men's brains being boxes and women's brains having everything connected to everything. I have one disagreement and one addendum.

DISAGREEMENT: I do not have a "Nothing" box, and using a "Nothing" box sounds interminably boring. I can pack the box up and put it away though. If I have determined there is nothing I can do about the problem I can close the box, put it back and go work on the contents of another box in my brain. If something comes up that can affect the contents of the problem box I will put away whatever box I'm working on and get out the problem box to apply the new item to it.

ADDENDUM: What that guy failed to mention about women is, "everything is connected" can be a good thing. Women are frequently an emotional equalizer because everything is connected in their minds. Two really good things happened and one mildly bad thing happened = net good effect. If you apply more bad to the equation their mental state gets worse, and if almost everything is bad then one good thing is not going to have much effect, but in general a woman's "everything is connected" function is a very handy perspective for balancing out everything and giving the sum total of how life is going at the moment. Also you can improve the total situation by including good things. Even if the good things you add have nothing at all to do with the bad things, they still counteract the bad with good. From what I have observed men can't do that.

 

[UnderGrace]

Everything you have stated while lovely, is all tradition and not really Biblical.

A marriage is a commitment to share your life with someone. In marriage you are truly joined to your partner for life. Your spouse takes the place of your parents as your main support system. This is not the case with boyfriend girlfriend relationships. Lifelong commitment is not a priority, it's more like "as long as we are getting along and things are going well we will stay together." In light of this, how can a boyfriend/girlfriend truly fulfill the role of the main support system in a persons life? Your parents are your parents for life, your wife is your wife for life, your girlfriend/boyfriend is only around while the going is good. Remember, marriage is symbolic of the relationship of Jesus to his Church. He will never leave us or forsake us, no matter if the going is good or not. He isnt just flirting around with us to see if he likes us enough to keep us around. We are in a permanent union with him for the rest of our eternal lives

As far as the contents of the marriage ceremony itself, we are free to choose since Scripture does not prescribe any specifications for the ceremony. What matters is a true and binding commitment to spend the rest of your life with your spouse, just like how Jesus and the Church both desire to truly be committed to each other for eternity. Modern marriage ceremonies are meant to be symbolic of these inward desires for commitment. The two who are being joined vocalize and bring forth the profession of the desire for commitment in the sight of their families and friends, much in the same way that the confession of commitment to Christ is vocalized publicly.

Symbolism in modern marriage ceremonies is similar to ancient Jewish ceremonies in that it conveys a deeper spiritual truth about the relationship of Jesus to his Church. You have the bride dressed in white, wearing a veil, being escorted to the altar by her father. Once arriving at the altar, the veil is removed by her husband and she sees his face clearly. Then the two are joined in the sight of all and then a marriage supper is held to celebrate

As far as taking of oaths in regards to Matthew 5:33-37, the point of that passage is to refrain from calling on God to witness to the truthfulness of a statement. If you are telling the truth, you do not need to call on God as witness. By calling on God as witness you cast doubt on the truthfulness of your statement. For example, there is a big difference between saying "I swear to God that I am going to cut the grass today." and "Yes, i'm going to cut the grass today." and then actually cutting the grass like you said you would.

If we tell the truth we do not need to invoke God as witness.

So in the context of a marriage ceremony, it would be best to remove all the "Do you solemnly swear" parts and exchange it with "Will you" and then actually do it. Make your yes a yes.

Thank you for this lively discussion

 

[VincentG]

Sir i care about you, but Jesus makes his commands very clear. Blatantly going against those rules without any real care could be evidence you're not saved i would definitely be careful. Even if you are saved there are consequences to sin and calling yourself a Christian and doing the exact opposite of what a Christian should be doing makes people think that all Christians are faking. Don't be someone who causes God's name to be blasphemed among pagans. I only say this because i care God bless.

you've got a good head on your shoulders light.

 

[Solemateleft]

i would gladly expand the polling question options to include the option of making your own response, but i cant figure out how to do that. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Respectfully, the 7 pages of responses (so far) have afforded everyone the opportunity to provide their own responses. Based upon the feedback received, if one were interested in expanding the scope of questions to capture a broader appreciation of the 'survey response output' for broader objectivity and interpretation of the context and meaning behind the feedback... Below is merely a sampling of what I hypothesized might paint a broader perspective of the scope of the feedback and make for a very interesting output and expanded discussion... Bottomline: the output is likely to re-validate your going in hypothesis or potentially paint a slightly different picture than the current output portrays...

What are your opinions on sex outside of marriage?

Sex outside of marriage is a sin and we should abstain without exception?

Sex outside of marriage is a sin and we should abstain with some acknowledgement of forgivable exceptions?

It is a sin to engage in casual sex and we should abstain without exception?

Sex outside of marriage even in union with your loving life-partner and soul-mate is a sin and we should abstain?

Sex outside of marriage but in a union with your loving life-partner and soul-mate is a forgivable exception?

Sex outside of marriage even in a union with a loving life-partner is a sin regardless of age and we should abstain?

Sex outside of marriage even in a union with a loving life-partner is a sin regardless of circumstance and we should abstain?

Sex outside of marriage with a loving life-partner is a sin regardless of lonely years of celibacy as a Divorce and we should abstain?

Sex outside of marriage but in a union with a loving life-partner after years of lonely celibacy as a Divorcee is a forgivable exception?

Sex outside of marriage with a loving life-partner is a sin regardless of years of lonely celibacy as a Widow(er)?

Sex outside of marriage but in a union with a loving life-partner after years of lonely celibacy as a Widow(er) is a forgivable exception?

Consensual Sex outside of marriage amongst Lonely Mature Loving Christians is a sin and we should abstain without exception?

Consensual Sex outside of marriage amongst Lonely Mature Loving Christians is a forgivable exception?

 

[selfdissolving]

Everything you have stated while lovely, is all tradition and not really Biblical.

There is nothing wrong with tradition as long as it does not contradict God's Word.

We all have traditions. Do you wake up every morning and pray? That's a tradition. Do you pray before you eat? Tradition. Before bedtime? Tradition. Read a daily devotional? Tradition. Read through the bible in one year? Tradition.

Traditions are a matter of Christian liberty as long as they are in line with God's Word and never exalted to the same level as God's Word.

Jesus blessed marriage. He never once condemned the traditional practices of Jewish marriage. On the contrary he used them as symbols to teach deeper truths about himself and his Bride.

It would take all day to list all the marriage references made in the bible.

Can you list just one passage that condemns marriage?

The post that caused my response was one that was advocating fornication as being the same as marriage because two people sleep together.

What you are referring to is the lack of a set ceremonial practice in a marriage ceremony, which i conclude is a matter of Christian liberty.

I invite you to prove me wrong using the Scriptures.

 

[UnderGrace]

There is nothing wrong with tradition as long as it does not contradict God's Word.

We all have traditions. Do you wake up every morning and pray? That's a tradition. Do you pray before you eat? Tradition. Before bedtime? Tradition. Read a daily devotional? Tradition. Read through the bible in one year? Tradition.

Traditions are a matter of Christian liberty as long as they are in line with God's Word and never exalted to the same level as God's Word.

Jesus blessed marriage. He never once condemned the traditional practices of Jewish marriage. On the contrary he used them as symbols to teach deeper truths about himself and his Bride.

It would take all day to list all the marriage references made in the bible.

Can you list just one passage that condemns marriage?

The post that caused my response was one that was advocating fornication as being the same as marriage because two people sleep together.

What you are referring to is the lack of a set ceremonial practice in a marriage ceremony, which i conclude is a matter of Christian liberty.

I invite you to prove me wrong using the Scriptures.

The is issue not tradition, the issue is the redefinition of biblical marriage

Interestingly, fornication does not even mean sex before marriage, so your questions are connected to changed secular societal norms around the concept of "prematerial sex" not Biblical fornication

 

[selfdissolving]

The is issue not tradition, the issue is the redefinition of biblical marriage

Interestingly, fornication does not even mean sex before marriage, so your questions are connected to changed secular societal norms around the concept of "prematerial sex" not Biblical fornication

and what is the definition of biblical marriage? and what is fornication?

 

[UnderGrace]

and what is the definition of biblical marriage? and what is fornication?

Have you read this thread?

 

[Lynx]

Hey guys, argument forum (also known as Bible Discussion Forum) is three doors down on the left. Singles forum is for more cheerful stuff than contentious debate.

 

[selfdissolving]

Have you read this thread?

i assume that means you are unable to answer the question

 

[selfdissolving]

Hey guys, argument forum (also known as Bible Discussion Forum) is three doors down on the left. Singles forum is for more cheerful stuff than contentious debate.

my apologies
i'm just gonna drop the issue

 

[UnderGrace]

i assume that means you are unable to answer the question

Funny guy haha.... I have already stated what is biblical marriage as well as a few others