Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

I know it is so hard for me to believe....even still I was literally shocked.

The saddest thing of all is they make no attempt to reconsider....none at all.

It is dreadfully sad, and working to keep yourself saved is rooted in "Pride" the original sin, I will do it my way.
And God say's your sacrifice is unacceptable. Jesus is, the Way, the Truth and the Life,

 

[UnderGrace]

It is dreadfully sad, and working to keep yourself saved is rooted in "Pride" the original sin, I will do it my way.
And God say's your sacrifice is unacceptable. Jesus is, the Way, the Truth and the Life,

Yes pride indeed, sometimes it seems to me that they just cannot let go and accept the gift, their view is that God is demanding something for the gift of salvation, or salvation is a gift earned at the end, how is that a gift if it is earned

Just a faulty view of God and what He has plainly stated He would do, and has in fact done.

 

[VCO]

Verse 8 in the KJV does not say "free" gift.

Verse 9, Paul is talking about the dead works of the Law of Moses. Paul is not talking about the works of the Law of Christ. (see Galatians 6:2)

Verse 10, says that we SHOULD walk in them, it does not say WE WILL WALK IN THEM. The word SHOULD, means we have a choice. God has prepared good works for us that we have before been ordained to, that we SHOULD walk in them. If we do make the right choice, we will have EL. If we make the wrong choice we will have eternal punishment (see Matthew 25:46).
. . . .

First of all KJV is a Paraphrase from older English Bibles, with KNOW ERRORS. And the used the LATIN BIBLE, and a FLAWED Greek Transation know as the Septuagint to check for those Errors. Their Translation Team admitted it in the 1611 Original Preface, Here is an excerpt:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

​

The Translators To The Reader​

​

Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .​

. . .​

But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .​

. . .​

Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .​

. . .​

(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .​

. . .​

There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .​

. . .​

And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . .​

. . .​

Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .​

. . .​

to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .​

. . .​

Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest} translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .​

. . .​

Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing KJV ONLY PEOPLE do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .​

. . .​

But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . ​

{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }​

​

http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm​

Note the LINK ABOVE, no longer works. Here are a couple that do work:


https://library.osu.edu/innovation-...bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the


http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


They used Older English translations, I think it was 5 older English Transalations, the Latin Bible, and the Septuagint also know to have additions and subtraction errors. Now look up to the FOURTH Paragraph of the excerpt, they sometimes added to the TEXT, and sometimes they Subtracted from the Text. So the Older English Bibles had know errors, and the Septuagint had known errors, and would you trust that the Latin Bible, would NOT also have known errors. Therefore in trying to weed out the Known errors, the missed some, therefore, the KJV cannot be more than a Paraphrase.

 

[VCO]

Verse 8 in the KJV does not say "free" gift.

Verse 9, Paul is talking about the dead works of the Law of Moses. Paul is not talking about the works of the Law of Christ. (see Galatians 6:2)

Verse 10, says that we SHOULD walk in them, it does not say WE WILL WALK IN THEM. The word SHOULD, means we have a choice. God has prepared good works for us that we have before been ordained to, that we SHOULD walk in them. If we do make the right choice, we will have EL. If we make the wrong choice we will have eternal punishment (see Matthew 25:46).

So how do we reconcile by grace are we saved, not of works, lest we boast. We are literally saved by the grace of Jesus Christ. Even if we perform all the works that Jesus has before ordained us that we should walk in, it still is not enough to save us in the KOG. If requires the grace of Jesus Christ to cleans us from sin that allow us to finally walk into heaven. Here is the reconciliation:
If we confess that we believe in Christ and confess that we have faith in Christ, and we confess that we trust in Christ, and we are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit, and now with a new birth and a new person, we are willing to live the Law of Christ (Galations 6:2), and be engaged in the work of the Lord has called us to (not the dead works of the Law of Moses), and endure to the end, Jesus will lift us up, and cleans us of the filth of this world through his grace, and we will be allowed into the KOG and be with him forever.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.


So lets look at some bona fide TRANSLATIONS FROM Original Translation Manuscript to SEE WHERE THE WORD FREE GIFT COMES FROM.

Romans 5:15 (ASV)
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.

Romans 5:15 (NASB)
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

Romans 5:15 (NCV)
15 But God’s free gift is not like Adam’s sin. Many people died because of the sin of that one man. But the grace from God was much greater; many people received God’s gift of life by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:15 (ESV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.

Romans 6:23 (NRSV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 22:17 (NKJV)

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.


I have told you REPEATEDLY, SALVATION is the DAY you First BELIEVED.

So when do you think you will get around to good works?

It is NOT part of SALVATION,

OBEDIENCE IS PART OF LOVE.

NON - LOVE for GOD = abiding in DEATH.

1 John 3:14 (ESV)
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers.
Whoever does not love abides in death.

 

[VCO]

Amazing how the word of God sheds light on those who are false hey bro.....

I was typing a Bible Post, and someone knocked at the Door.

GUESS WHO IT WAS.

MORMONS, so because of the 2 John, I confronted them briefly AT THE DOOR, and TOOK THEM why I COULD NOT INVITE THEM IN.

From Morons to Mormons how can I tell the difference?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Never heard of Catholics thinking that.
What they do though is catorgarise sin into mortal & venial sin.
Mortal is very serious and venial not so.

I was talking to a member on here who is a Catholic.
The issue was adultery and the topic was lustful thoughts that a person was struggling with that led them to porn and therefore was he committing adultery.

I said yes I think you are guilty of it and quoted the verses where Jesus addressed this very issue.

The Catholic fellow went at me and told me I wrong because thinking about was not the same as doing it. Thinking was venial and action was normal.

He totally rejected the verses.
So for me to look at another woman with lust then I'm just as guilty in my heart as doing it.

Jesus came to reveal the true intent of the law.
He really raised the bar.
If it's in the heart you are just as guilty as doing it.
Doing it will surely bring it's consequences here on earth.
But at the end of the day Jesus will judge the heart.

Did I help wash those dirty dishes?
Off course I did.
Will when I say I did, I loaded the dishwasher, put in the dishwasher tablet, close the door and pressed start.

Does that count

Catholics have a few scriptures that are supposed to prove purgatory.
Luke 12:58-59 is another one. But I'm not really too interested in this.
Moral and venial sins -- yes, they do believe that.

I agree of course about Jesus raising the bar...If the guy didn't believe what Jesus said in Mathew 5:27-28 we can't really help it. God looks at the heart. If we WANT to do something, it's as good as done in His eyes. Maybe he meant that a passing thought is not a sin unless one dwells on it -- who knows.

Yes sir. Loading, tableting, closing and pressing start all counts!

 

[GodsGrace101]

i dont agree with your understandings.... much of what you said regarding the meaning of scriptures does not match up with the truth....

but in that post specifically how you tied the verses bill said to purgatory

i disagree with your perspective


and that passive aggressive snarky entitled head strong attitude isnt the best way to get what you ask for....

The truth. Jesus said the truth would set us free.
Free from what??

 

[GodsGrace101]

I wouldn't say that mixing works with grace is what says to do.
Grace is free, unmerited.

g5485. χάρις charis; from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): — acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).
AV (156) - grace 130, favour 6, thanks 4, thank 4, thank + g2192 3, pleasure 2, misc 7;
gracethat which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
So I see your second sentence as being correct.

His grace empowers us to do good works, which should not be limited to good works but should also include asking Jesus to increase in us so that we decrease.
And by this I mean to include sin in our lives reducing and the fruit of the Holy Spirit increasing..

We must also bear in mind that any works we do must be done for the right reason.
Not because we have to but because we want to.
Done out of love. The people who Jesus commended in the sheep and goats.
Yet we find the sheep were surprised.

Amen.
I agree with all of above.

 

[GodsGrace101]

If your Motive for Obeying Christ is to gain favor with GOD, or to complete your Salvation, IT IS OF NO VALUE TO GOD.

IF YOUR MOTIVE FOR OBEYING HIM, IS NOT PURE LOVE FOR HIM, AGAIN, IT IS OF NO VALUE TO GOD.

It your MOTIVE is like I described, it is nothing by wood, hay, and stubble; and filthy rags.

If I'm obeying Christ it must surely mean that i believe in Him.
Do persons who DON'T believe in God obey Him? I think not.

As far as gaining favor, yes, I do believe that we can gain favor with God.
Jesus said that IF we love Him, we will obey Him.
John 14:15

In John 15:21 Jesus states that those who love Him have His commandments and keeps them and they will be loved by Him and by the Father.

In John 15:23 Jesus says that if anyone loves him, they will keep His word and the Father will love them.
He repeats this TWO times because it's so important.

Don't YOU think God is happy when YOU obey Him??



John 14:15 Jesus said:
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

John 14:21 Jesus said:
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

John 14:23 Jesus said.
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Does not matter and you missed the point....was Jesus Christian or Paul? How about John? The point is...God's people are easily offended in this age and for the most part have no ability to take a little heat, sarcasm and or being questioned intently with zeal.......I read what he wrote and IMO it was not that big of a deal nor was it anti-Christian.......just saying

OK. Maybe I'm sensitive. I'm new here and I feel like I need to get off this thread.
I feel like there's a few really close friends here speaking among themselves and I'm intruding. Sure it's not intentional...just my feelings.

I do get a little worried when I say we're supposed to obey God and some don't agree.
I don't understand this...

 

[blue_ladybug]

The truth. Jesus said the truth would set us free.
Free from what??

Free from sin. Free from burning in the lake of fire. Free from being enslaved by the ruler of this world.. Jesus IS the truth. And only His death could set us free.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Good morning, my peeps..

 

[blue_ladybug]

OK. Maybe I'm sensitive. I'm new here and I feel like I need to get off this thread.
I feel like there's a few really close friends here speaking among themselves and I'm intruding. Sure it's not intentional...just my feelings.

I do get a little worried when I say we're supposed to obey God and some don't agree.
I don't understand this...

Let us warn you about this forum. Unfortunately it is the most spiteful, contentious forum on the entire site. You need tough skin and your big girl pants on in here..

Now, if you mean we're supposed to obey God by doing good works, you're correct. BUT we are not to do them for the sole purpose of gaining or keeping salvation, nor to try and earn our way into heaven..

 

[gb9]

OK. Maybe I'm sensitive. I'm new here and I feel like I need to get off this thread.
I feel like there's a few really close friends here speaking among themselves and I'm intruding. Sure it's not intentional...just my feelings.

I do get a little worried when I say we're supposed to obey God and some don't agree.
I don't understand this...

some of us are not friends , some of us do not like each other.

and we all agree that we are supposed to obey. the disagreement is over what we are supposed to obey. the judeaizers say we have to keep the Law/Sabbath to be saved. some say that our obedience maintains our salvation. some say that if we not producing fruit, then we are not saved.

so, then there of us pushing the truth- the sermon of the mount is the standards of behavior that we Christ followers are to be striving to obey. we fall short but that is the goal.

hope this clarifies things a bit.

 

[lightbearer]

I was typing a Bible Post, and someone knocked at the Door.

GUESS WHO IT WAS.

MORMONS, so because of the 2 John, I confronted them briefly AT THE DOOR, and TOOK THEM why I COULD NOT INVITE THEM IN.

From Morons to Mormons how can I tell the difference?

You’re not a Christian are you. It’s not a question.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was typing a Bible Post, and someone knocked at the Door.

GUESS WHO IT WAS.

MORMONS, so because of the 2 John, I confronted them briefly AT THE DOOR, and TOOK THEM why I COULD NOT INVITE THEM IN.

From Morons to Mormons how can I tell the difference?

HAHAHAHHAH I had to read the last line twice to get the first word HAHAH

 

[GodsGrace101]

Good luck Bill....


And you were mouthing another member for not being Christian.......two Greek words together = hypocrite

I NEVER would say someone is not a Christian!
How would I possibly know their heart??
I said their behavior was not christianly...that's different.
It does seem to me that we're held to a standard of behavior.

Mathew 7:12 Jesus said:
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

 

[Studyman]

Why did you quote MY post, but refer to me as Magenta? I'm Lady Blue, not Magenta.. lol

Woops, my apologies.

 

[dcontroversal]

OK. Maybe I'm sensitive. I'm new here and I feel like I need to get off this thread.
I feel like there's a few really close friends here speaking among themselves and I'm intruding. Sure it's not intentional...just my feelings.

I do get a little worried when I say we're supposed to obey God and some don't agree.
I don't understand this...

There is not a person on this thread that believes that we are NOT to obey God......the thread is about biblical salvation based entirely upon grace and faith. The bible is also clear...those who conflate FAITH with WORKS to gain, keep, embellish, top off or finish salvation are teaching that which is false.....Galatians is clear....to embellish faith with works to top off salvation or finish salvation equates to a gospel of a different kind with no power to save...a false gospel that is double cursed and all who believe it or push it are foolish and bewitched.

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING to his mercy has HE SAVED US <--past tense x 2

In the grace you are, HAVING BEEN SAVED BY FAITH, and that NOT of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God and NOT of works lest any man should boast.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

The problem is simple....people take JAMES out of context, ignore Paul and then conflate justification with ongoing sanctification which leads to a gospel of a different kind based upon a faith works blend.

AND your assessment is not entirely correct about the thread....but, and if you say something that any of us disagree with biblically we will call you on it...feel free to post away and enjoy the sword play

 

[GodsGrace101]

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.


Titus 3:4-8 (HCSB)
4 But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared,
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy,
through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.


You are TOTALLY CONFUSED.

SALVATION happens COMPLETELY the DAY WE CAME TO GENUINELY BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND TRUST HIM TOTALLY. THE HOLY SPIRIT COMES INTO OUR HEARTS birthing our human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, AS A FREE GIFT OF GOD.

ONLY AFTER THAT CAN WE BEGIN THE PROCESS CALLED SANCTIFICATION, which is an ongoing effort to get our BODIES to Catch Up with our human spirits, becoming more and more like CHRIST. It will TAKE a life time to conform our Bodies to be like CHRIST, and it will not be finished UNTIL Christ gives us that GLORIFIED RESURRECTED BODY that CANNOT EVEN THINK A SIN as HE comes for HIS BRIDE. Therefore the BODY going through SANCTIFICATION will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS.

What's to be confused?

Romans 11:6 We're saved by grace and not by our works.
Do you know someone who says they were saved by works?
I don't.

So above you perfectly explain Justification and Sanctification.
I'm in total agreement with you.