Master Keys to Holiness

[preacher4truth]

Perhaps if you can point out the perceived contradiction, it would help us better.

So please clarify. So I can know how to come in.

People aren't going to like hearing the truth of the Gospel and sanctification for the most part. I appreciate the OP and your biblical stance. Those well versed in the Gospel know these things to be true, others will ridicule, mock and reject it. Hebrews 12:14 is clear, and professing believers take issue with it because most preachers won't preach its truths and they simply don't want to believe it. They construe this as works instead of evidence of true conversion. (many here don't believe in evidence of conversion).

 

[emekrus]

People aren't going to like hearing the truth of the Gospel and sanctification for the most part. I appreciate the OP and your biblical stance. Those well versed in the Gospel know these things to be true, others will ridicule, mock and reject it. Hebrews 12:14 is clear, and professing believers take issue with it because most preachers won't preach its truths and they simply don't want to believe it. They construe this as works instead of evidence of true conversion. (many here don't believe in evidence of conversion).

Brother,

Your boldness is to commended. God bless. Good to know people like this are here.

 

[mailmandan]

And you would agree with me, there are gazillion of straw men in Christendom. And I tell you, with your position about works. Good works definitely sounds very loud to them as good for nothing.

I already explained to you that I do not teach good works are good for nothing (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8; Matthew 5:16) and if you or anyone else is interpreting what I say in my posts as good works are good for nothing, then it sounds to me like anything short of saved by good works will not satisfy what your itching ears want to hear.

 

[mailmandan]

They construe this as works instead of evidence of true conversion. (many here don't believe in evidence of conversion).

Who does not believe in evidence of conversion?

 

[emekrus]

I already explained to you that I do not teach good works are good for nothing (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8; Matthew 5:16) and if you or anyone else is interpreting what I say in my posts as good works are good for nothing, then it sounds to me like anything short of saved by good works will not satisfy what your itching ears want to hear.

It's ok brother. And of course, we don't have dominion over each other's faith. After all, we'll all stand individually before the judgement throne of God. Like the Apostle Paul admonished, let's just be fully persuaded in our hearts in what ever we believe.

 

[preacher4truth]

Who does not believe in evidence of conversion?

I could name names however I will not, it has been argued in the past on here. The egregiousness of such an error is quite troubling and many espouse it today.

1 John is one text which unequivocally denies such a belief.

 

[preacher4truth]

And you would agree with me, there are gazillion of straw men in Christendom. And I tell you, with your position about works. Good works definitely sounds very loud to them as good for nothing.

Works have been preached against so much and so often that any mention of the necessity of works in a believer is rejected as "a false gospel."

 

[mailmandan]

I could name names however I will not, it has been argued in the past on here. The egregiousness of such an error is quite troubling and many espouse it today.

1 John is one text which unequivocally denies such a belief.

I have pointed out in post #35 in this thread and multiple other times on CC that 1 John 3:7-10 makes a clear contrast between children of God and children of the devil. If we are truly born of God then there will be evidence.

 

[mailmandan]

Works have been preached against so much and so often that any mention of the necessity of works in a believer is rejected as "a false gospel."

To teach that we are actually "saved by works" is a false gospel. We are saved through faith in Christ "apart from the merit of works" (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet authentic faith is "not apart from the presence of works" (James 2:14-24). If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

 

[preacher4truth]

I could name names however I will not, it has been argued in the past on here. The egregiousness of such an error is quite troubling and many espouse it today.

1 John is one text which unequivocally denies such a belief.

I should have said 1 John denies the validity of such a belief.

 

[Dino246]

Brother Dino,

Sequel to your quote above...

I don't understand... Because you actually wrote this...

"The "follow" part (pursue, in the NIV), applies to both peace and holiness ("dog" and "goat"). I have made no issue with this".

I actually find the reconciliation of the two statements ambiguous...

Perhaps you could help out.

I can see the confusion! My bad... In my haste I didn't read carefully, nor did I proofread adequately. Allow me to clarify:

"Follow" does apply to both "peace" and "holiness", but "which" only refers to "holiness".

 

[Blanche]

If faith alone saves, what do you all make of this?

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Also, why did Jesus preach for 3.5 years about how we are to treat others? That is behavior ... that is "works", or actions taken? He taught a way of life ... it was all about helping others .. about putting love into action.

 

[mailmandan]

If faith alone saves, what do you all make of this?

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Also, why did Jesus preach for 3.5 years about how we are to treat others? That is behavior ... that is "works", or actions taken? He taught a way of life ... it was all about helping others .. about putting love into action.

See post #4 from the link below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/faith-and-deeds.166701/

There is a difference between being saved by authentic faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in works (yet results in producing evidential works) and what James refers to an empty profession/dead faith that remains alone -- "barren of works" (Ephesians 2:8-10; James 2:14-24).

 

[Blanche]

z///

See post #4 from the link below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/faith-and-deeds.166701/

There is a difference between being saved by authentic faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in works (yet results in producing evidential works) and what James refers to an empty profession/dead faith that remains alone -- "barren of works" (Ephesians 2:8-10; James 2:14-24).

Thanks. I Read the link. My point is this. having Faith without works (acting on your faith ... doing what Jesus said to do) is like having a boat without oars. It is useless.