Not By Works
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I can tell by your ANSWERS and your Questions, that you do not understand the first thing about being Born Again.
You will not understand this, but I can tell by the lack of your spirit, not ministering to my spirit.
YOU SAID: One Christian does not question another Christian about such things.
None of us minds another Christian asking us about being Born Again. In fact I am HAPPY TO DISCUSS it with ANY OTHER TRUE CHRISTIAN. So your STATEMENT just verified that you KNOW NOTHING about being Born Again. It reeks with RED FLAGS.
2 Timothy 4:2-3 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (HCSB)
15 but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
16 However, do this with gentleness and respect, keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are accused, those who denounce your Christian life will be put to shame.
Acts 9:27-29 (NKJV)
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him.
Acts 18:26 (NKJV)
26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Acts 19:8 (HCSB)
8 Then he entered the synagogue and spoke boldly over a period of three months, engaging in discussion and trying to persuade them about the things of the kingdom of God.
Matthew 7:16 (HCSB)
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
1 Timothy 1:3-6 (HCSB)
3 As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach different doctrine
4 or to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies. These promote empty speculations rather than God’s plan, which operates by faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love ⌊that comes⌋ from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6 Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 (HCSB)
3 If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.
2 Timothy 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works.
15 You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.
1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
You will not understand this, but I can tell by the lack of your spirit, not ministering to my spirit.
YOU SAID: One Christian does not question another Christian about such things.
None of us minds another Christian asking us about being Born Again. In fact I am HAPPY TO DISCUSS it with ANY OTHER TRUE CHRISTIAN. So your STATEMENT just verified that you KNOW NOTHING about being Born Again. It reeks with RED FLAGS.
2 Timothy 4:2-3 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (HCSB)
15 but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.
16 However, do this with gentleness and respect, keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are accused, those who denounce your Christian life will be put to shame.
Acts 9:27-29 (NKJV)
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him.
Acts 18:26 (NKJV)
26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Acts 19:8 (HCSB)
8 Then he entered the synagogue and spoke boldly over a period of three months, engaging in discussion and trying to persuade them about the things of the kingdom of God.
Matthew 7:16 (HCSB)
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
1 Timothy 1:3-6 (HCSB)
3 As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach different doctrine
4 or to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies. These promote empty speculations rather than God’s plan, which operates by faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love ⌊that comes⌋ from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6 Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 (HCSB)
3 If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.
2 Timothy 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works.
15 You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.
1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
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Again you only post the parts of the Scripture which advance your teaching that you are already saved "Past tense". But what about the rest of God's Word?
9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained (Not man) that we should walk in them.
What " Good Works" that God "before ordained" would this be Decon? What about a religion which claims the Christ as their Lord, that call Him Lord, Lord, but refuse to walk in the "good works" God Foreordained that we should walk in them? Would this not be called "iniquity"? What about Pauls words below. Am I allowed to consider them?
Rom. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Now Decon, how can this be. According to your religion, if I'm saved, I am already immortal and "shall surely not die", eternally secure because I am saved, one sentence in Paul's letter to Titus says so.. But Paul also says I can be "cut off".
This places man in a bad place in your religion Decon. If I'm cut off because I didn't continue in the "Good Works" that God foreordained that I should walk in them, you will just say I wasn't "saved" to begin with. But if I "work" to study and "prove what is that acceptable "Will of God" as instructed, you will preach that I am trying to save myself by my own works.
I could follow your religion till I die and take my chances, but doesn't it make more sense to follow His instructions now? Wouldn't that be faith in Him, rather than faith in man's religion?
Actually, you don't. Your entire religion is wrapped around a few scriptures taken out of context and used to create a religion which absolves religious men from any of their own choices or man made religious traditions. In this way Mainstream Christianity can create their own image of God and no one cares. They can create their own High Days and no one cares. They can create their own Sabbaths and no one cares. If I consider ALL of God's Word, this religion is proven to be from man and not from God. Should I not warn you and my brothers of this?
The Bible says God's Words are spiritual, and we worship in Spirit. So absolutely we build an ARK in our mind based on the instructions the Christ gives us, and we fill it with His definition of Holy and unholy, Clean and unclean, not ours. Knowing full well the religions of the land will mock us and laugh at us because they really don't believe what The Word of God said is coming.
Because you don't consider "ALL" of God's Word in your religion, you ask this question. Because I do "believe" the Word of God which became Flesh, I can answer it with His Word's not mine.
The Christ doesn't desire the sacrifice of animals, this I have learned by following His instruction to live by EVERY WORD of God.
1 SAm. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
When did these scriptures become Void?
Have you not read "ALL" the Word's of my Savior? "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
The true Jerusalem is in our mind.
All your question are answered in the scriptures you ignore.
Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world (or the religions of this world) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Shall I give tithes to a religion which says Lord, Lord, but refuses to "DO" as He says? God forbid!!!!
It's all about what ALL God's word teaches when we, in Faith, put them all together. Something the serpent convinced Eve not to do.
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N
whoops
you misunderstand john 15
that may be why youre seeing opposing statements in the same bibles
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
one of your mistakes is not seeing there are two sorts of brances here
branches that bare fruit
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
and branches that do not bare fruit
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"
you are focused on the word "in" (which first is used here to describe those who claim to be in Him and are in our congregation saying they believed when they do not) when this whole thing is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own children
compared to the lack of power in fakers <- those who HE does not abide IN
dont you understand when this is being said?
what judas already did ...and what was about to happen? this is very important to understand.... this is about sheep and goats... not sheep turning into goats...
maybe you need to focus more on the whole message
including the word ABIDE
but this has NOTHING to do with the loss of salvation to a saved believer
and MUCH to do with two separate types of men in the same congregation
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no context as in words taken out of Gods word
with a false understanding of what they mean
trying to use them to paint a false picture....
no better than stealing from someone who stole from you and saying "eye for an eye"
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
21. will of the Father
john 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
______
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
22.
these false believers who were never saved... not saved and lost
use their "many wonderful works" to try to justify themself.... some fruit
23.
oh.... He never knew them
therefor they are not covered by the righteousness of Jesus
and have their own to fall back on
with a false understanding of what they mean
trying to use them to paint a false picture....
no better than stealing from someone who stole from you and saying "eye for an eye"
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
21. will of the Father
john 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
______
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
22.
these false believers who were never saved... not saved and lost
use their "many wonderful works" to try to justify themself.... some fruit
23.
oh.... He never knew them
therefor they are not covered by the righteousness of Jesus
and have their own to fall back on
Maybe they were creating and/or promoting images of God in the likeness of men. Iniquity!! Maybe they had created their own High days and rejected the Feasts of the Christ. Maybe they replaced God's Sabbath with one created by Constantine.
Imagine the "false picture" they preached to others with their huge churches, and Lord this, and Lord that. Giving Christ all the credit for their wonderful works. "Christ in me", I can hear it now.
But in the end God's Word stands.
Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
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Religious man, nor any man, did anything to provide the Mercy of God. Nothing I do alters it, changes it, creates it, makes it void. God has offered it to all humans. All we need to do is Follow the "path" He created, not religious man created, to find this "free gift"
1 Cor. 9:
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection ( Subjection to what? Religious traditions of the land?) lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Phil. 3:
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
I don't believe the whole "Come as you are" religion. Although quite popular as the Lord prophesied, there are volumes of scriptures which expose it as a man made religious tradition. I would caution by brothers to remember to consider "EVERY WORD" of God when we are "proving what is acceptable to God". I think we will find, as those of Christ's time found, that much of the Mainstream Religions of the land are not from the God of the Bible.
1 Cor. 9:
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection ( Subjection to what? Religious traditions of the land?) lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Phil. 3:
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
I don't believe the whole "Come as you are" religion. Although quite popular as the Lord prophesied, there are volumes of scriptures which expose it as a man made religious tradition. I would caution by brothers to remember to consider "EVERY WORD" of God when we are "proving what is acceptable to God". I think we will find, as those of Christ's time found, that much of the Mainstream Religions of the land are not from the God of the Bible.