Do our churches include man made dogma?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#1
I think they do. When I found that Paul, especially, did not agree with other biblical scripture as my church explained him, I searched for the truth. I knew that scripture was from one God who never changed, so when I found disagreement I knew I was wrong about something.

I had to go into history to find the answer. History is very clear about who added to scripture and why they added it. The letters and life of Constantine is necessary reading, as Constantine relates to our church today. Studying these early church fathers is not for learning about God, but for understanding how their interpretations were wrong because they do not agree with scripture.

The Christians were in the minority at that time, idol worship, myology, and philosophy was the norm, and the early church fathers reflect that. The Jews knew scripture, they didn't. The Jews were a minority people looked down on.

So our churches squabble about law, they only celebrate added holidays reflecting the pagan holidays, they change scripture by tossing most of the OT into Judaism they toss out.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#2
Of course the churches today have man-made dogmas.

The assemblies of teh time of Paul were not separate dogmas and doctrines, they were the same "lady" all in agreement ……….. today they are denominations vying with each other for popularity and profit.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#3
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
6,913
113
#3
Take comfort in knowing that God is all powerful, and He can surely protect and preserve His Word and His Church. As for all the other...........it is a narrow way we travel, so why be surprised when the broad way is so crowded and our way has so few?
 
R

rlm68

Active member
#4
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
#4
No doubt our KJV Bibles are different in the Old testament from that which Yeshua Himself used (Isaiah scroll). For one, the LATIN word LUCIFER would not have been in the Hebrew Torah for 2 reasons.

1. is obvious since the Hebrews call Satan the Adversary.

2. And Latin did not exist around when Isaiah wrote Isaiah, which was in 100% Hebrew!!


Of course there are many examples of scripture tampering.



So, what does it create when we read these add on's?

1. Personal point of view, possible agenda, not many could read to challenge it, one can only speculate as to the why it was done.

So, outside of us maybe getting someones personal view of God, it has been a useful tool to gather those who never read the scripture by blindly accepting the preachers word as if it was God Himself talking.

Some stories are the reason people got saved. And maybe the Holy Spirit will reveal to them to understand and learn the truth for themselves.

But just maybe a personal view that is not the inspired WORD of God being read [that is an add on], might be the way the Adversary can trick believers by twisting the scripture. Because, If we don't have actual word for word inspired of God scripture, the Adversary could actually trick us with the TRUTH!!

:(
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#5
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#5
That we need to keep a literal weekly Sabbath today is one exemple of the man made dogmas.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#6
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#6
rlm68 said:
No doubt our KJV Bibles are different in the Old testament from that which Yeshua Himself used (Isaiah scroll). For one, the LATIN word LUCIFER would not have been in the Hebrew Torah for 2 reasons.

1. is obvious since the Hebrews call Satan the Adversary.

2. And Latin did not exist around when Isaiah wrote Isaiah, which was in 100% Hebrew!!

Of course there are many examples of scripture tampering.

So, what does it create when we read these add on's?

1. Personal point of view, possible agenda, not many could read to challenge it, one can only speculate as to the why it was done.
So, outside of us maybe getting someones personal view of God, it has been a useful tool to gather those who never read the scripture by blindly accepting the preachers word as if it was God Himself talking.

Some stories are the reason people got saved. And maybe the Holy Spirit will reveal to them to understand and learn the truth for themselves.

But just maybe a personal view that is not the inspired WORD of God being read [that is an add on], might be the way the Adversary can trick believers by twisting the scripture. Because, If we don't have actual word for word inspired of God scripture, the Adversary could actually trick us with the TRUTH!! :(
Click to expand...
Of course the KJV does not always reflect God's word. It was written during the time nations were killed Jews just because they were Jews and the KJV reflects that. For example in the gospels the word Passover is changed to Easter. God gave us Passover, Easter is a word from a much later period.

The men who set up the policies of our church today were men from a era filled with idol worship, philosophy, and mythology. They took over leadership of the Christian church from men who knew scripture--they didn't know scripture. God does not disagree with God and God is one, not an old and a new God. As in mythology they made our glorious God the Father into a vengeful mean old man who had to have a progressive kind new God take over.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#7
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
6,913
113
#7
this gonna end up being a KJV Only thread iffin y'all ain't careful

:)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#8
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#8
Blik said:
So our churches squabble about law, they only celebrate added holidays reflecting the pagan holidays, they change scripture by tossing most of the OT into Judaism they toss out.
Click to expand...
Of course there are man made dogmas in many if not most churches. However latching on to holidays should be the least of your worries. God says that if some Christians wish to regard some days as more important than others, they are at liberty to do so. PROVIDED they do not insist that all Christians do what they do. As far as God is concerned, holy days, new moons, sabbath, feasts, and festivals were all SHADOWS. The reality is Christ.

There is only one day set aside for Christian worship (and rest), and there is only one feast to be observed by Christians. That is the Lord's Supper (a memorial feast) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). This is according to the New Testament.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9
Nehemiah6 said:
Of course there are man made dogmas in many if not most churches. However latching on to holidays should be the least of your worries. God says that if some Christians wish to regard some days as more important than others, they are at liberty to do so. PROVIDED they do not insist that all Christians do what they do. As far as God is concerned, holy days, new moons, sabbath, feasts, and festivals were all SHADOWS. The reality is Christ.

There is only one day set aside for Christian worship (and rest), and there is only one feast to be observed by Christians. That is the Lord's Supper (a memorial feast) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). This is according to the New Testament.
Click to expand...
Scripture back up please on the first day of the week being the Lord's day? I only one I know of is that scripture says that the discovery the Christ was gone from the grave was made on the first day. To discover is not to designate a Sabbath, discovery is discovery.

Scripture tells us of feasts to be celebrated by all generations. It is God who gives scripture and we have only one God giving one message not different Gods in different ages. Our God is eternal, the same at all times.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#10
Jan 18, 2011
12,399
6,738
113
#10
Blik said:
Scripture back up please on the first day of the week being the Lord's day? I only one I know of is that scripture says that the discovery the Christ was gone from the grave was made on the first day. To discover is not to designate a Sabbath, discovery is discovery.

Scripture tells us of feasts to be celebrated by all generations. It is God who gives scripture and we have only one God giving one message not different Gods in different ages. Our God is eternal, the same at all times.
Click to expand...
here is my favorite man- made doctrine- Jesus was crucified on wed. and rose on the Sabbath. total lie used by judeaizers to push Sabbath keeping for salvation.

as to your question= a simple answer is John. when he stated he was " in the Sprit on the Lord's day ' , he did NOT say Sabbath. a different greek word is used.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#11
#11
Blik said:
Scripture back up please on the first day of the week being the Lord's day? I only one I know of is that scripture says that the discovery the Christ was gone from the grave was made on the first day. To discover is not to designate a Sabbath, discovery is discovery.

Scripture tells us of feasts to be celebrated by all generations. It is God who gives scripture and we have only one God giving one message not different Gods in different ages. Our God is eternal, the same at all times.
Click to expand...
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Colossians 2:16‭-‬17 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/col.2.16-17.NASB
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)-in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Colossians 2:20‭-‬23 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/col.2.20-23.NASB
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#13
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#13
gb9 said:
here is my favorite man- made doctrine- Jesus was crucified on wed. and rose on the Sabbath. total lie used by judeaizers to push Sabbath keeping for salvation.

as to your question= a simple answer is John. when he stated he was " in the Sprit on the Lord's day ' , he did NOT say Sabbath. a different greek word is used.
Click to expand...
Do you really think that scripture tells us when Christ rose? It tells us when he was discovered.

Do you really think that reading the story of our world's creation is wrong? You sneer at Judaizers for doing this. If you dare to read scripture, read about the seventh day creation. Or do only Judaizers read scripture about any time before Christ lived as a man in our world.

John was a Jew, he lived the life of a Jew. The Lord's Day to a Jew at the time John lived was on Saturday. Those who changed it to Sunday, at that time, were gentiles used to worshipping sun worship, idol worship, on Sunday.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#15
Jan 18, 2011
12,399
6,738
113
#15
Blik said:
Do you really think that scripture tells us when Christ rose? It tells us when he was discovered.

Do you really think that reading the story of our world's creation is wrong? You sneer at Judaizers for doing this. If you dare to read scripture, read about the seventh day creation. Or do only Judaizers read scripture about any time before Christ lived as a man in our world.

John was a Jew, he lived the life of a Jew. The Lord's Day to a Jew at the time John lived was on Saturday. Those who changed it to Sunday, at that time, were gentiles used to worshipping sun worship, idol worship, on Sunday.
Click to expand...
at dawn, on the first day of the week. after the sun rose. as you know, jews counted days from twilight to twilight. Jesus was crucified on thur. ( one ) in the tomb on the Sabbath, ( two). rose overnight. ( three).

and yes, sunday is the sun god day. so is every other day of the week, month of the year, named after a pagan god.

and since the years are now kept on a calendar made a pope, you are going to have to figure out a system that you were not born into to paly the catholic card.
 
PyongPing

PyongPing

Active member
#16
Oct 9, 2018
281
53
28
www.worldincrisis.org
#16
gb9 said:
Jesus was crucified on thur. ( one )
Click to expand...
Not correct. The sixth day, is the day on which Jesus was crucified (morning sacrifice, aka '9AM') and dies 6 hours later (evening sacrifice, aka '3PM'), not only in prophecy, but also in typology and historically. Jesus rested in the grave on the 7th day as at Creation, eternally adjoining Redemption to it, and rose upon the 'fist [day] of the week', before sunrise (I have a pretty good idea exactly when too, based upon scripture, but that is not really necessary).

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus at Lazarus' house in Bethany [Mt. Olivet] – [John 12:1]

[the first [day] of the week]

Jesus Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem, "the next day" from leaving Lazarus' house, Hosanna! - [John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11], goes to the Temple, and after looking around, leaves, since it was close to evening back out unto Mt. Olivet.

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, curses the fig tree, goes to the Temple, and cleanses the Temple for the Second [last] time of the Money Changers - [Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19], and Jesus goes back out.

[the third [day] of the week]

Jesus comes back, the Fig tree is withered up from the roots, goes to the Temple, and has the final teachings to the Pharisees, etc - [Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27].

This was the "two days" before the "Passover" - [Matthew 26:1-2; Mark 14:1; Luke 21:37-38, 22:1].

Jesus tells the Jewish nation, that their house is forever left desolate, no more fruit again - [Matthew 23:37-39; Luke 13:32-35].

Jesus said, that He still had to do "cures" and "cast out devils" "to day, tomorrow and the third day" and be done - [Luke 13:32,33]

Jesus had been "daily" in the Temple - [Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20]

[the fourth [day] of the week]

The "tomorrow" [Luke 13:32,33]

[the fifth [day] of the week]

The "Third Day" [Luke 13:32,33], being done.

[the sixth [day] of the week; preparation]

Gather twice as much, Christ Jesus the anti-typical Manna, Exodus 16:25,26

The "spices" "had been" [Mark 16;1] purchased sometime after the Crucifixion and before burial so that they could "prepare" [Luke 23:56] them to bring on the "first [day] of the week" [Luke 24:1], even as we see Joseph of Arimathaea doing for the linen - [Mark 14:46]

1st Evening Part - [Matthew 26:31,34; Mark 14:27,30]
1st Morning [Light] Part - [Matthew 27:21; Mark 15:1]

Abib/Nisan 14th; Christ Jesus our Passover is Sacrificed for us - [1 Corinthians 5:7],

[the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God]

Jesus remained in the Tomb all Sabbath - anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:29,30

The Disciples were keeping the Sabbath according to the Commandment - [Exodus 20:8-11; Luke 23:54,56]

2nd Evening and 2nd Morning Parts - [Matthew 27:58-66, 28:1; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:52-53,54; John 19:38-42]

Abib/Nisan 15th - Seasonal Feast Sabbath [First Day of Unleavened Bread, without corruption] - [Leviticus 23:5-8]

[the first [day] of the week]

Christ Jesus, preserved and Risen - Anti-type Manna - Exodus 16:32-34

3rd Evening and 3rd Morning Parts, Christ Risen and shown alive - [Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:2-20; Luke 24:1-29; John 20:1-23]

Abib/Nisan 16th; Christ the Firstfruits/Wavesheaf Offering, Anti-Type Resurrection - [1 Corinthians 15:20,23].

Jesus was walking with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the "first [day] of the week", as the day was closing out, being "the third day since these things" were done [Luke 24:21],

[the second [day] of the week]

Jesus was still walking with the two disciples on the Road to Emmaus as the first [day] of the week was closing, and it becomes Evening - [Luke 24:29,35, etc]
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#17
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#17
gb9 said:
at dawn, on the first day of the week. after the sun rose. as you know, jews counted days from twilight to twilight. Jesus was crucified on thur. ( one ) in the tomb on the Sabbath, ( two). rose overnight. ( three).

and yes, sunday is the sun god day. so is every other day of the week, month of the year, named after a pagan god.

and since the years are now kept on a calendar made a pope, you are going to have to figure out a system that you were not born into to paly the catholic card.
Click to expand...
So without scripture telling you if Christ rose on Saturday or Sunday, you "know"!! Remarkable.

Do you think it would change how the world was created if we knew what day Christ rose?
 
PyongPing

PyongPing

Active member
#18
Oct 9, 2018
281
53
28
www.worldincrisis.org
#18
Nehemiah6 said:
That is the Lord's Supper (a memorial feast) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). This is according to the New Testament.
Click to expand...
Could you please docuemnt those texts please, in specifically towards "Lord's Supper" on "the first [day] of the week"? I know of no such texts. For instance:

The disciples met "daily"

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

(this texts says nothing of "Lord's Supper" directly)

Act_2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Act_6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

The original "Lord's Supper" was upon the evening (first portion) of the 6th day (thursday night), see previously given timeline.

Paul said it was to be "as oft as" it is done, which could be daily, weekly, once a month, quarterly (in seasons), etc:

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co_11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Other texts, such as:

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

It does not mention the "Lord's Supper" either specifically. It too is also at night (evening), sometime after midnight and well before break of day (sunrise). It also does not mention the drinking of the cup either.

And:

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This also mentions nothing about "Lord's Supper" on the 'first [day] of the week', and doesn;t even mention breaking of bread in this, neither the drinking of the cup. Moreover, it mentions a private (personally at home) gathering of goods for when Paul, etc comes by. There is no gathering here. It is also for the specific dearth at Jerusalem.

In:

Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

There is no mention of "Lord's Supper" here neither, "bread", neither "cup", but rather other items, such as 'fish' and 'honeycomb'. The disciples were also in fear, not in faith.

In:

Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

This Jesus sits at the evneing meal, and there is again, no mention of the cup, but a simple recognition in Jesus' common practice with them throughout his ministry.
 
G

glf1

Active member
#19
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
43
#19
Hey! Bilk... PTL!
We all, every person and denomination, have error or dogma or incorrect doctrines. We are commanded to study scripture, looking for the truth that is seen through a glass darkly. Even when the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to us, we still only get to know it in part. The truth and error both feel exactly the same. And sadly, we are unable to discern between what we were taught by man verses what the Holy Spirit has himself revealed to us. If any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. Who would be that one who has the most truth in their doctrines? Probably, the one who walks in obedience and has memorized the most scripture over time, and who doesn't read anything other than the scripture.
Is 28: 9, 10 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little." This tells me that its better to read three chapters a day in devotions with the Lord, than it is to read thirty chapters, once a week. imo...
Maranatha!
 
R

rlm68

Active member
#20
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
#20
Blik said:
Of course the KJV does not always reflect God's word. It was written during the time nations were killed Jews just because they were Jews and the KJV reflects that. For example in the gospels the word Passover is changed to Easter. God gave us Passover, Easter is a word from a much later period.

The men who set up the policies of our church today were men from a era filled with idol worship, philosophy, and mythology. They took over leadership of the Christian church from men who knew scripture--they didn't know scripture. God does not disagree with God and God is one, not an old and a new God. As in mythology they made our glorious God the Father into a vengeful mean old man who had to have a progressive kind new God take over.
Click to expand...


The beauty of the scriptures are clear that inspiration was definitely behind God's intent through His message and through the fingertips of those GREAT MEN who gave their lives to Yahweh for Him to fulfill His plan through when they wrote. And now, we have things that through agenda, opinion, what was being preached at the time, that are its own inspiration. Someone definitely was inspired to change God's word knowing there is a Commandment towards it ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.