Jewish & Gentile Relationship
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Answer one of my many questions and I'll answer this, for why should I answer any further if you will not answer any further? The purpose of questions and debating is to grow for the word of G-d, but if you have no answers and just comments, then your intent is not to grow, your intent is "something else". I'll listen to anyone, but there must be proof.
Ah of course. But when did G-d or Yeshua say, "when one is a sinner or has fallen away, lets give up?". Want proof, how many times did G-d harden Pharaoh's heart? How many times did G-d try His best to save the Egyptians from being destroyed after the heart being hardened? How much MORE would G-d do for His chosen people? Yeshua even laid out His life for anyone who is blinded.
Every human being has a right to an opinion and a right to believe what they choose to believe. However, the truth is undeniable and truth is the only thing that separates one from lies of the adversary and one who follows G-d. Here are the facts presented by G-d Himself:
a) Romans 1:16 - 1st to the Jew, THEN to the Gentile.
b) Most if not all the disciples who Jesus/Yeshua reached himself were Jewish: Shimon Kefa, Andrew, Ya'akov, Yochanan, Philip, Bar-Talmai, T'oma, Mattityahu, Ya'akov Bar-Halfai, Taddai, Shimon the Zealot and Y'hudah (Matthew 10:2-4)
c) (Matthew 10:5-6) "Do not go to the territory of the Gentiles, and do not enter any town in Shomron, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel..."
d) Matthew 15:25 - "I was sent onnly to the lost sheep of the House of Israel"...(of course Yeshua had mercy for the WHOLE world, including Gentiles like yourself)
e) ALL of Romans 11 (11-12) "In that cause, I say, isn't it that they have stumbled with the result that they (Jews) have permanently fallen away? HEAVEN FORBID. Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealous. Moreover, if their stumbling brings riches to the world (Because if all of Israel accepted Yeshua, there would be no Messiah for the Gentiles...) that is if Israel's being placed temporarily in a condition less favoured that that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter...HOW MUCH GREATER RICHES will Israel in its fullness bring them"
f) (Matthew 23:39) "For I tell you (Jews because his only audience in Jerusalem was heavily Jews), from now on, you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the L-rd" (Psalm 118:26).
g) The entire Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy) Speaks of an Eternal Covenant with Israel 100's of times...and I won't even start with the Torah and the Tanakh.
h) Acts 4:4 speaks clearly of people at the Temple and again, primarily only Jews lived in Jerusalem and 5,000 came to belief.
I'll stop there, because that is more than enough evidence to counter your statement "Jesus reached few Jews" & "Reaching the Jews has nothing to do with the second coming of Christ". I purposely used NT scripture so I could relate to you. If you can answer all those passages to support your comment, please feel free to but repenting and stating you were wrong (not for my sake) but for your own, would be a very good thing to do and I pray that you do
a) Romans 1:16 - 1st to the Jew, THEN to the Gentile.
b) Most if not all the disciples who Jesus/Yeshua reached himself were Jewish: Shimon Kefa, Andrew, Ya'akov, Yochanan, Philip, Bar-Talmai, T'oma, Mattityahu, Ya'akov Bar-Halfai, Taddai, Shimon the Zealot and Y'hudah (Matthew 10:2-4)
c) (Matthew 10:5-6) "Do not go to the territory of the Gentiles, and do not enter any town in Shomron, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel..."
d) Matthew 15:25 - "I was sent onnly to the lost sheep of the House of Israel"...(of course Yeshua had mercy for the WHOLE world, including Gentiles like yourself)
e) ALL of Romans 11 (11-12) "In that cause, I say, isn't it that they have stumbled with the result that they (Jews) have permanently fallen away? HEAVEN FORBID. Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealous. Moreover, if their stumbling brings riches to the world (Because if all of Israel accepted Yeshua, there would be no Messiah for the Gentiles...) that is if Israel's being placed temporarily in a condition less favoured that that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter...HOW MUCH GREATER RICHES will Israel in its fullness bring them"
f) (Matthew 23:39) "For I tell you (Jews because his only audience in Jerusalem was heavily Jews), from now on, you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the L-rd" (Psalm 118:26).
g) The entire Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy) Speaks of an Eternal Covenant with Israel 100's of times...and I won't even start with the Torah and the Tanakh.
h) Acts 4:4 speaks clearly of people at the Temple and again, primarily only Jews lived in Jerusalem and 5,000 came to belief.
I'll stop there, because that is more than enough evidence to counter your statement "Jesus reached few Jews" & "Reaching the Jews has nothing to do with the second coming of Christ". I purposely used NT scripture so I could relate to you. If you can answer all those passages to support your comment, please feel free to but repenting and stating you were wrong (not for my sake) but for your own, would be a very good thing to do and I pray that you do
Judaism as it is spoken of in scripture and Judaism as the church today speaks of it are two entirely different things.
If you would believe in scripture you would define it as the traditions and
rituals that were not the law in themselves but were given to help the Hebrews obey the law. Paul tells us to listen to the Holy Spirit for our guidance so rituals are not needed.
In today's church, people who believe in one God who does not disagree with God in scripture are labeled as Judaizers. The modern way is to sneer at God of the OT, and they bring in the 613 laws to prove their right to sneer.
If you would believe in scripture you would define it as the traditions and
rituals that were not the law in themselves but were given to help the Hebrews obey the law. Paul tells us to listen to the Holy Spirit for our guidance so rituals are not needed.
In today's church, people who believe in one God who does not disagree with God in scripture are labeled as Judaizers. The modern way is to sneer at God of the OT, and they bring in the 613 laws to prove their right to sneer.
Ah of course. But when did G-d or Yeshua say, "when one is a sinner or has fallen away, lets give up?". Want proof, how many times did G-d harden Pharaoh's heart? How many times did G-d try His best to save the Egyptians from being destroyed after the heart being hardened? How much MORE would G-d do for His chosen people? Yeshua even laid out His life for anyone who is blinded.
So, let's talk about details. What methods and techniques do you use to reach the Orthodox Jews?
I'll skip your personal insults and get right to the question:
He meant that the disciples should do what the Pharisees tell them.
But the problem is the Bible does not stop at Matthew 23. All this was PRIOR to the resurrection of Jesus. prior to the destruction of the temple. Prior to the new Covenant being in force yet.
Now we dont have to do what the Pharisees tell us to do. Because we are in the New Covenant.
He meant that the disciples should do what the Pharisees tell them.
But the problem is the Bible does not stop at Matthew 23. All this was PRIOR to the resurrection of Jesus. prior to the destruction of the temple. Prior to the new Covenant being in force yet.
Now we dont have to do what the Pharisees tell us to do. Because we are in the New Covenant.
Jews cannot be helped until they stop thinking they are superior to everyone else in every way.
Why would they think they need help if they have people like you telling them that they are superior, encouraging their wrong thinking?
Love is in the Truth. If you can't handle telling someone the Truth then you DON'T love them. If you encourage them in their path to Death then you hate them.
God didn't give up. He rested. The Lord Jesus didn't give up, He gives us Rest.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
What do jews and everyone else in the world need?
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
But you have to come to Christ to get it. That is when the vail comes off the heart and mind. There is NO OTHER WAY.
Why would they think they need help if they have people like you telling them that they are superior, encouraging their wrong thinking?
Love is in the Truth. If you can't handle telling someone the Truth then you DON'T love them. If you encourage them in their path to Death then you hate them.
God didn't give up. He rested. The Lord Jesus didn't give up, He gives us Rest.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
What do jews and everyone else in the world need?
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
But you have to come to Christ to get it. That is when the vail comes off the heart and mind. There is NO OTHER WAY.
Not really. Maybe in little things but the overall effect is the same.
Rejecting Grace and working for righteousness.
Same thing that people who try to mix Judaism with Christianity do.
Its not sneering at the God of the OT.
Its sneering at the stupidity and dishonesty of people who say they understand scripture but then you find out they don't understand or trust the New Testament.
And in not understanding or trusting the New Testament they don't understand or trust the Old Testament either.
Making a mockery both of Judaism and Christianity, simultaneously.
Do one or the other and do it well. Don't try to do both.
Revelation 3:15-18
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rejecting Grace and working for righteousness.
Same thing that people who try to mix Judaism with Christianity do.
Its not sneering at the God of the OT.
Its sneering at the stupidity and dishonesty of people who say they understand scripture but then you find out they don't understand or trust the New Testament.
And in not understanding or trusting the New Testament they don't understand or trust the Old Testament either.
Making a mockery both of Judaism and Christianity, simultaneously.
Do one or the other and do it well. Don't try to do both.
Revelation 3:15-18
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Ah I like this convo! Hahaha of course. I never said Jews weren't stubborn. Lol I am an assistant to my Rabbi and I tell you Yeshua's lessons come to life when dealing with them LOL. But I love them regardless
What I state here is in reference to the Jewish - Christian relationship (the Jesus - Nation relationship is very different because they never knew G-d and who he really is, so knowing G-d through Jesus is amazing, of course if done righteously)
a) I do not know your stance on scripture and that is fine but the evidence proves that the 2000+ years of Christian's theology unfortunately for (Jews, not necessarily the nations) has not been "productive". Strangely though, in the 1st century MANY if not most believers were, in fact, Jews (and there was no secular or conservative Jews, just Orthodox and maybe rebellious of course lol). So put the math together, there must be something "wrong" with Christian theology (not necessarily people) in proving that Yeshua is the Mashiach.
b) For any believer, if I simply say "I believe in Jesus", is that all there is too it? What is valued more? Striving as a human being to be like Avraham, loving your enemies, living for G-d and His ways and fighting your temptations OR simply stating I believe in someone and being a hypocrite in your lifestyle? (For Yeshua's commands are high!) (The context of this questions is which one is better if you cannot do both.).
c) If you actually get to know and study the Jews and their culture and even the Talmud...you'll be fascinated to see that they "naturally" follow many of the commands Yeshua stated and what the disciples did, especially on Shabbat! But yet those who "believe" struggle to get to church and yet condemn those who don't believe and think everyone else is going to "hell" (for the most part). So what would you choose? The people who actually live like Yeshua commanded and G-d of course, or join the people who confess with their lips...but their actions are weak? (Of course I have met amazing Christians too but for the most part)
d) Did you know that most Jews, especially Orthodox Jews hate Jesus not on the account of reading the NT (For MOST never even laid hands on it, because it would be like studying witchcraft in their eyes), but on the account of Jesus's followers and the Christian bloodbath towards them (just as recent as the Holocaust). Would you even read about a "guy" and under who's name has been used to slaughter and torture Jews verbally and physically? ("You Christ-Killer....You G-d Killer...You Legalistic Jew....etc. which I hear many Jews today tell me when they were kids)
e) Do you know what it means to blaspheme a name? It is not simple "stating His name" in a foul sense, but...it is how you "represent" that name. For if I say I am Professor so and so's best student and then you are challenged and you fail miserably, who looks worse, the student or the one who taught them?
*So I pointed these facts out not to insult the Christian's relationship to Jews, but to bring to light so facts that hopefully can be resolved through using all the tools we have! (Spririt, Love, Our Minds, Our Hands etc). For all has been given by G-d for a reason, even down to our small little toe! It can all be used for the glory of G-d and if we proclaim to LOVE Him and His Son....then we better get to work!
I hope this gives you an idea. Again, I think Christians have done wonderful things for the world, like Billy Graham is still one of my favourite Christians for endless reasons, but when it comes to reaching Jews....this is a whole new ball game.
What I state here is in reference to the Jewish - Christian relationship (the Jesus - Nation relationship is very different because they never knew G-d and who he really is, so knowing G-d through Jesus is amazing, of course if done righteously)
a) I do not know your stance on scripture and that is fine but the evidence proves that the 2000+ years of Christian's theology unfortunately for (Jews, not necessarily the nations) has not been "productive". Strangely though, in the 1st century MANY if not most believers were, in fact, Jews (and there was no secular or conservative Jews, just Orthodox and maybe rebellious of course lol). So put the math together, there must be something "wrong" with Christian theology (not necessarily people) in proving that Yeshua is the Mashiach.
b) For any believer, if I simply say "I believe in Jesus", is that all there is too it? What is valued more? Striving as a human being to be like Avraham, loving your enemies, living for G-d and His ways and fighting your temptations OR simply stating I believe in someone and being a hypocrite in your lifestyle? (For Yeshua's commands are high!) (The context of this questions is which one is better if you cannot do both.).
c) If you actually get to know and study the Jews and their culture and even the Talmud...you'll be fascinated to see that they "naturally" follow many of the commands Yeshua stated and what the disciples did, especially on Shabbat! But yet those who "believe" struggle to get to church and yet condemn those who don't believe and think everyone else is going to "hell" (for the most part). So what would you choose? The people who actually live like Yeshua commanded and G-d of course, or join the people who confess with their lips...but their actions are weak? (Of course I have met amazing Christians too but for the most part)
d) Did you know that most Jews, especially Orthodox Jews hate Jesus not on the account of reading the NT (For MOST never even laid hands on it, because it would be like studying witchcraft in their eyes), but on the account of Jesus's followers and the Christian bloodbath towards them (just as recent as the Holocaust). Would you even read about a "guy" and under who's name has been used to slaughter and torture Jews verbally and physically? ("You Christ-Killer....You G-d Killer...You Legalistic Jew....etc. which I hear many Jews today tell me when they were kids)
e) Do you know what it means to blaspheme a name? It is not simple "stating His name" in a foul sense, but...it is how you "represent" that name. For if I say I am Professor so and so's best student and then you are challenged and you fail miserably, who looks worse, the student or the one who taught them?
*So I pointed these facts out not to insult the Christian's relationship to Jews, but to bring to light so facts that hopefully can be resolved through using all the tools we have! (Spririt, Love, Our Minds, Our Hands etc). For all has been given by G-d for a reason, even down to our small little toe! It can all be used for the glory of G-d and if we proclaim to LOVE Him and His Son....then we better get to work!
I hope this gives you an idea. Again, I think Christians have done wonderful things for the world, like Billy Graham is still one of my favourite Christians for endless reasons, but when it comes to reaching Jews....this is a whole new ball game.
But see your comment makes you no different than the Jews. The Jews believe that obviously obeying G-d's LOVING and PERFECT commands (that are eternal by G-d) are the way to live. And Christian's say "If you don't believe in Jesus, you are hard headed". Who is better when you observe this from the outside? Next question, who or what part of what each group does is actually correct AND under what foundation is this? Now if you are honest while reading this post, maybe you will think differently now.
For anyone can say "Oh yes I have the spirit of the L-rd and now I know better".....Paul says something about Gentiles who do that in Romans 11...
I am here to say Jews are perfect and Christian's are not? No! But I am here to state that every human being has the right to their own way of thinking but if they desire G-d....then truth and the foundation of truth lies with G-d and through His word (and His word is the Torah and the Torah also is Yeshua).
For anyone can say "Oh yes I have the spirit of the L-rd and now I know better".....Paul says something about Gentiles who do that in Romans 11...
I am here to say Jews are perfect and Christian's are not? No! But I am here to state that every human being has the right to their own way of thinking but if they desire G-d....then truth and the foundation of truth lies with G-d and through His word (and His word is the Torah and the Torah also is Yeshua).
Ah I like this convo! Hahaha of course. I never said Jews weren't stubborn. Lol I am an assistant to my Rabbi and I tell you Yeshua's lessons come to life when dealing with them LOL. But I love them regardless
What I state here is in reference to the Jewish - Christian relationship (the Jesus - Nation relationship is very different because they never knew G-d and who he really is, so knowing G-d through Jesus is amazing, of course if done righteously)
a) I do not know your stance on scripture and that is fine but the evidence proves that the 2000+ years of Christian's theology unfortunately for (Jews, not necessarily the nations) has not been "productive". Strangely though, in the 1st century MANY if not most believers were, in fact, Jews (and there was no secular or conservative Jews, just Orthodox and maybe rebellious of course lol). So put the math together, there must be something "wrong" with Christian theology (not necessarily people) in proving that Yeshua is the Mashiach.
b) For any believer, if I simply say "I believe in Jesus", is that all there is too it? What is valued more? Striving as a human being to be like Avraham, loving your enemies, living for G-d and His ways and fighting your temptations OR simply stating I believe in someone and being a hypocrite in your lifestyle? (For Yeshua's commands are high!) (The context of this questions is which one is better if you cannot do both.).
c) If you actually get to know and study the Jews and their culture and even the Talmud...you'll be fascinated to see that they "naturally" follow many of the commands Yeshua stated and what the disciples did, especially on Shabbat! But yet those who "believe" struggle to get to church and yet condemn those who don't believe and think everyone else is going to "hell" (for the most part). So what would you choose? The people who actually live like Yeshua commanded and G-d of course, or join the people who confess with their lips...but their actions are weak? (Of course I have met amazing Christians too but for the most part)
d) Did you know that most Jews, especially Orthodox Jews hate Jesus not on the account of reading the NT (For MOST never even laid hands on it, because it would be like studying witchcraft in their eyes), but on the account of Jesus's followers and the Christian bloodbath towards them (just as recent as the Holocaust). Would you even read about a "guy" and under who's name has been used to slaughter and torture Jews verbally and physically? ("You Christ-Killer....You G-d Killer...You Legalistic Jew....etc. which I hear many Jews today tell me when they were kids)
e) Do you know what it means to blaspheme a name? It is not simple "stating His name" in a foul sense, but...it is how you "represent" that name. For if I say I am Professor so and so's best student and then you are challenged and you fail miserably, who looks worse, the student or the one who taught them?
*So I pointed these facts out not to insult the Christian's relationship to Jews, but to bring to light so facts that hopefully can be resolved through using all the tools we have! (Spririt, Love, Our Minds, Our Hands etc). For all has been given by G-d for a reason, even down to our small little toe! It can all be used for the glory of G-d and if we proclaim to LOVE Him and His Son....then we better get to work!
I hope this gives you an idea. Again, I think Christians have done wonderful things for the world, like Billy Graham is still one of my favourite Christians for endless reasons, but when it comes to reaching Jews....this is a whole new ball game.
What I state here is in reference to the Jewish - Christian relationship (the Jesus - Nation relationship is very different because they never knew G-d and who he really is, so knowing G-d through Jesus is amazing, of course if done righteously)
a) I do not know your stance on scripture and that is fine but the evidence proves that the 2000+ years of Christian's theology unfortunately for (Jews, not necessarily the nations) has not been "productive". Strangely though, in the 1st century MANY if not most believers were, in fact, Jews (and there was no secular or conservative Jews, just Orthodox and maybe rebellious of course lol). So put the math together, there must be something "wrong" with Christian theology (not necessarily people) in proving that Yeshua is the Mashiach.
b) For any believer, if I simply say "I believe in Jesus", is that all there is too it? What is valued more? Striving as a human being to be like Avraham, loving your enemies, living for G-d and His ways and fighting your temptations OR simply stating I believe in someone and being a hypocrite in your lifestyle? (For Yeshua's commands are high!) (The context of this questions is which one is better if you cannot do both.).
c) If you actually get to know and study the Jews and their culture and even the Talmud...you'll be fascinated to see that they "naturally" follow many of the commands Yeshua stated and what the disciples did, especially on Shabbat! But yet those who "believe" struggle to get to church and yet condemn those who don't believe and think everyone else is going to "hell" (for the most part). So what would you choose? The people who actually live like Yeshua commanded and G-d of course, or join the people who confess with their lips...but their actions are weak? (Of course I have met amazing Christians too but for the most part)
d) Did you know that most Jews, especially Orthodox Jews hate Jesus not on the account of reading the NT (For MOST never even laid hands on it, because it would be like studying witchcraft in their eyes), but on the account of Jesus's followers and the Christian bloodbath towards them (just as recent as the Holocaust). Would you even read about a "guy" and under who's name has been used to slaughter and torture Jews verbally and physically? ("You Christ-Killer....You G-d Killer...You Legalistic Jew....etc. which I hear many Jews today tell me when they were kids)
e) Do you know what it means to blaspheme a name? It is not simple "stating His name" in a foul sense, but...it is how you "represent" that name. For if I say I am Professor so and so's best student and then you are challenged and you fail miserably, who looks worse, the student or the one who taught them?
*So I pointed these facts out not to insult the Christian's relationship to Jews, but to bring to light so facts that hopefully can be resolved through using all the tools we have! (Spririt, Love, Our Minds, Our Hands etc). For all has been given by G-d for a reason, even down to our small little toe! It can all be used for the glory of G-d and if we proclaim to LOVE Him and His Son....then we better get to work!
I hope this gives you an idea. Again, I think Christians have done wonderful things for the world, like Billy Graham is still one of my favourite Christians for endless reasons, but when it comes to reaching Jews....this is a whole new ball game.
But I didn't see in your response what methods and techniques you personally use to reach Orthodox Jewish people?
If you thinks it’s a 5 second fix or a comment, then I’m sorry I cannot help.
Just like anything, you cannot fix a problem until you admit there is a problem and that was the purpose of it.
Sorry if it looks harsh to Gentile Believers but is any info false or untrue?
But...wise and humble people ADMIT their mistakes and from their not only are loved more, but they just opened their minds to learn more! But if all you see is a harsh critical rebuke, then I cannot help. It starts there..... again put yourself in “their shoes”...that’s how anyone in business, life or humanity begins to repair and build relationships!
Just like anything, you cannot fix a problem until you admit there is a problem and that was the purpose of it.
Sorry if it looks harsh to Gentile Believers but is any info false or untrue?
But...wise and humble people ADMIT their mistakes and from their not only are loved more, but they just opened their minds to learn more! But if all you see is a harsh critical rebuke, then I cannot help. It starts there..... again put yourself in “their shoes”...that’s how anyone in business, life or humanity begins to repair and build relationships!