Greetings! Any here have the Courage to Question?

[theanointedsinner]

@Demi777 You do understand that I was listing three things that would cause us to step in and defend the truth right.........so....are you disagreeing that we should defend against the three quotes or that you agree with the three quotes and we should not defend against them.......?

this can definitely illustrate Proverbs 3:5-6 (lean not on thine own understanding)
dcon is a good man, and knowing his character, we know that he's not serious about those claims, it's posting them meaning that, that is the false doctrine that JW is pushing, and we have every ounce of God's permission to defend the truth against those claims that dcon have listed. He's dcontroversal, not d-contradiction, let's get that straightened out.

 

[glf1]

Failure to rightly divide the word of truth. A lot of churches take the teachings and promises to the nation of Israel and apply them to the church, the body of Christ. This should not be so.

Hey! John... PTL, forever in the name of Jesus, our God and King!
Even though the law will pass away with this heaven and earth; Jesus' word, both the OT and the NT scriptures, will never pass away, for Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And so, each and every promise is available to the church by faith; that we might be partakers of the divine nature. Jesus come quickly!

2 Cor 1:20 "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him, Amen, unto the glory of God by us."
Rom 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
Gal 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."
2 Pet 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
Maranatha!

 

[theanointedsinner]

common ground
- heaven exist
- salvation is important
- humans are capable of "good works"
- the Bible is true <-- agreeing with this one is very important

Scriptures and explanation

Apostle Paul's Lament
Romans 7:24 - What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death

if we put the two together for Romans 3:23 and Romans 6:23
both are trying to say "all deserve death"

hence, what Apostle Paul is talking about "subject to death"

the most common object is, "I performed a church ritual, I do church, I live and breathe church, ur in ch__ch, I should be fine"

but here are two verses, that I highly doubt that you can wrestle against with much success.

1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Cor 10:12 - So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

and I believe 1 Cor 12:10 is a critical verse for this one, to obey it, we must never think that we are standing firm (sin is still possible), hence, refuting "sinless perfectionism"

Romans 12:3 - be sober-minded

incase if we think that works can fix that problem
consider Isaiah 64:6

Isaiah 64:6 - all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

for trying to work for salvation, this is not looking good

the answer why, is found in 1 Cor 13:3
1 Cor 13:3 - If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.


incase if you want to say, "our heart is holy", consider Jeremiah 17:9
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


I believe that this scripture-based proof is air-tight, straightforward direct proof, unless if you willfully misinterpret them (I hope not)

If for a moment, you allow yourself to assume that this proof is airtight, you'll realize the truth of Matt 19:26
Matt 19:26 - With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

with man, it's impossible for works to achieve salvation,
with God, all things, (including your salvation) is possible

in conclusion, Not by Works, but faith in God's grace

Q.E.D. (in theory, I can rest my case, hopefully the theory that "I can rest my case" can be true)

 

[John146]

Hey! John... PTL, forever in the name of Jesus, our God and King!
Even though the law will pass away with this heaven and earth; Jesus' word, both the OT and the NT scriptures, will never pass away, for Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And so, each and every promise is available to the church by faith; that we might be partakers of the divine nature. Jesus come quickly!

2 Cor 1:20 "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him, Amen, unto the glory of God by us."
Rom 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
Gal 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."
2 Pet 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
Maranatha!

God's character does not change, however, His dealings with man has changed throughout human history. His covenant people is the nation of Israel. The church has not replaced the nation of Israel. There are specific promises only given to Israel that the church cannot and should not claim.

 

[PyongPing]

Why would you want to know what a false religion believes about the end....?

They (WTS/JW) like prophecy, as do I. I want to know if they have a full understanding on certain key passsages, which are not easily availble from an outside perspective, and when I teach others what WTS/JW believe (for those who ask) I attempt to be as acurate as possible, so as not to misrepresent. I have their basic overall prophetic timeline, charted out, but there are about 7 minute details I would like to know from them, to fill in those specific blanks.

I would do the same for what you believe.

 

[theanointedsinner]

common ground
- heaven exist
- salvation is important
- humans are capable of "good works"
- the Bible is true <-- agreeing with this one is very important

Scriptures and explanation

Apostle Paul's Lament
Romans 7:24 - What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death

if we put the two together for Romans 3:23 and Romans 6:23
both are trying to say "all deserve death"

hence, what Apostle Paul is talking about "subject to death"

the most common object is, "I performed a church ritual, I do church, I live and breathe church, ur in ch__ch, I should be fine"

but here are two verses, that I highly doubt that you can wrestle against with much success.

1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Cor 10:12 - So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

and I believe 1 Cor 12:10 is a critical verse for this one, to obey it, we must never think that we are standing firm (sin is still possible), hence, refuting "sinless perfectionism"

Romans 12:3 - be sober-minded

incase if we think that works can fix that problem
consider Isaiah 64:6

Isaiah 64:6 - all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

for trying to work for salvation, this is not looking good

the answer why, is found in 1 Cor 13:3
1 Cor 13:3 - If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.


incase if you want to say, "our heart is holy", consider Jeremiah 17:9
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


I believe that this scripture-based proof is air-tight, straightforward direct proof, unless if you willfully misinterpret them (I hope not)

If for a moment, you allow yourself to assume that this proof is airtight, you'll realize the truth of Matt 19:26
Matt 19:26 - With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

with man, it's impossible for works to achieve salvation,
with God, all things, (including your salvation) is possible

in conclusion, Not by Works, but faith in God's grace

Q.E.D. (in theory, I can rest my case, hopefully the theory that "I can rest my case" can be true)

@PyongPing, for starters, hope you can understand it

 

[Grandpa]

I like those picks and agree. Though I will say Snapple root beer is awesome. And it's clear like water. Delicious.

I don't recall seeing RC cola on the shelves. But Fanta is still out there. Orange Fanta was the most popular when I was a kid.
Remember Tab? I think that's still sold too.

Ewww. I do remember Tab.

Do you remember Fresca? Haven't seen those around. Or Calistoga water either. I miss them a little.

But A&W root beer helps me get over it.

 

[PyongPing]

God's character does not change, however, His dealings with man has changed throughout human history. His covenant people is the nation of Israel. The church has not replaced the nation of Israel. There are specific promises only given to Israel that the church cannot and should not claim.

That is a misunderstanding of who Israel is. Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

'Israel' after the flesh, as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

 

[PyongPing]

@PyongPing, for starters, hope you can understand it

I disagree with:

"... and I believe 1 Cor 12:10 is a critical verse for this one, to obey it, we must never think that we are standing firm (sin is still possible), hence, refuting "sinless perfectionism" ..."​

Possible (sin; thus "if"; 1 John 2:1) does not mean necessary ("when"), thus does not exclude victory over every sin in the present, as per Jude 1:24; Philippians 4:13; Revelation 3:21, and so on.

You understand Latin?

 

[PyongPing]

Where I live they like to stand on street corners now with literature, you may find some information that way if it is the same where you live.

Thank you for the tip, as where I also live there are bus station 'booths', but I find that the average JW on the street doesn't know their own source material well enough, their own doctrine enough, or their own NWT (or King James) enough to be able to answer my questions.

I have even had some elders at my house, but after a while they stopped coming just when I wanted to get to the points I need.

I had found one (JW) who was promising on CAF (terrible place, filled with total fear), but I was banned from there ((for 'fishing in the Tiber') wasn't the first (more like the 20th), and won't be the last time either), just as I was obtaining what I needed.

 

[UnderGrace]

Thank you for the tip, as where I also live there are bus station 'booths', but I find that the average JW on the street doesn't know their own source material well enough, their own doctrine enough, or their own NWT (or King James) enough to be able to answer my questions.

I have even had some elders at my house, but after a while they stopped coming just when I wanted to get to the points I need.

I had found one (JW) who was promising on CAF (terrible place, filled with total fear), but I was banned from there ((for 'fishing in the Tiber') wasn't the first (more like the 20th), and won't be the last time either), just as I was obtaining what I needed.

Interesting, I would then go to source historical material from the early writers of the JW movement. If I think of anything else I will let you know.

 

[dcontroversal]

They (WTS/JW) like prophecy, as do I. I want to know if they have a full understanding on certain key passsages, which are not easily availble from an outside perspective, and when I teach others what WTS/JW believe (for those who ask) I attempt to be as acurate as possible, so as not to misrepresent. I have their basic overall prophetic timeline, charted out, but there are about 7 minute details I would like to know from them, to fill in those specific blanks.

I would do the same for what you believe.

Let me fill you in on a major truth that alludes many....The bible, including prophecy, is SPIRITUALLY discerned...ONE must be saved to understand the word of GOD...Jehovah's Witnesses, by their doctrine, DO NOT KNOW the LORD JESUS of the bible, and by their belief system are not saved and have NO ability to understand the end of the age....they worship and PUSH a false JESUS that is not of the bible.....

 

[PyongPing]

Let me fill you in

I'd rather you not. Thank you.

 

[UnderGrace]

They (WTS/JW) like prophecy, as do I. I want to know if they have a full understanding on certain key passsages, which are not easily availble from an outside perspective, and when I teach others what WTS/JW believe (for those who ask) I attempt to be as acurate as possible, so as not to misrepresent. I have their basic overall prophetic timeline, charted out, but there are about 7 minute details I would like to know from them, to fill in those specific blanks.

I would do the same for what you believe.

Rereading your post, I agree with dcon on this, it would be impossible for them to have understanding, it would only be a carnal understanding.

If you are researching for an expose, that is one thing, but to compare and contrast that is a useless endeavour in my opinion too.

 

[PyongPing]

If you are researching

Allow me to put you at ease. I research, to better witness to all (and study many faiths both in and outside of Christianity), including those precious persons (for whom Christ Jesus died) I meet who happen to be at the time with the WTS/JW org.

 

[UnderGrace]

Allow me to put you at ease. I research, to better witness to all (and study many faiths both in and outside of Christianity), including those precious persons (for whom Christ Jesus died) I meet who happen to be at the time with the WTS/JW org.

Indeed Christ died for all, but truth is spiritually discerned and given to the born again believer.

The JW's do not even have a "gospel" and do not have the true Christ. One does not become born again believing Jesus is a mere human with no power to save.

They have a system of works.

Being knowledgeable of their teachings, I agree would be helpful in reaching them, however first and foremost, they need to know the who Christ truly is.

I would also tell you that these people are very programmed and to really reach them takes a lot of work in understanding how they are programmed.

 

[PyongPing]

these people

I treat them as individuals (young to old, male to female, lay to office), not so much as a group mentality.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Indeed Christ died for all, but truth is spiritually discerned and given to the born again believer.

The JW's do not even have a "gospel" and do not have the true Christ. One does not become born again believing Jesus is a mere human with no power to save.

They have a system of works.

Being knowledgeable of their teachings, I agree would be helpful in reaching them, however first and foremost, they need to know the who Christ truly is.

I would also tell you that these people are very programmed and to really reach them takes a lot of work in understanding how they are programmed.

If the system of work involve a pyramid scheme, I would not be surprised

 

[dcontroversal]

I'd rather you not. Thank you.

Like I said....which was biblical by the way...nice to see you have no interest in biblical truth at the end of the day

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Let me fill you in on a major truth that alludes many.

AND APPARENTLY NOT....

PyongPing said:

I would do the same for what you believe.

 

[theanointedsinner]

nice to see you have no interest in biblical truth at the end of the day

I was about to laugh at this, but for some reason, this laughter quickly turn to sorrow