Help a sister out, will ya?

[CharliRenee]

I find this so interesting...

Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out: "To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. "O naive ones, understand prudence; And, O fools, understand wisdom. "Listen, for I will speak noble things; And the opening of my lips will reveal right things. "For my mouth will utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. "All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them. "They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. "Take my instruction and not silver, And knowledge rather than choicest gold. "For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things cannot compare with her. "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine. "By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men. "Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways. "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it. "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts. "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the Lord . "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."
Proverbs 8:1‭-‬36 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/pro.8.1-36.NASB

So we know God, Yud Heh Vav Heh, Elohim, is male as is Yeshua. But here we have Godly wisdom, created and possessed by Him at the beginning. Thus we have the word, but now wait why is wisdom, Godly wisdom female? Please be patient with me, and humor me, will ya? I am sure my thinking here needs some guidance so will you help a sister out? Doesn't this seem perplexing to you? I think Adonai is far beyond gender and that in Christ we are one. But still how does the wisdom fit with its feminine qualities and it being created?

 

[PyongPing]

I find this so interesting...
Proverbs 8:1-36

So we know God, Yud Heh Vav Heh, Elohim, is male as is Yeshua. But here we have Godly wisdom, created and possessed by Him at the beginning. Thus we have the word, but now wait why is wisdom, Godly wisdom female? Please be patient with me, and humor me, will ya? I am sure my thinking here needs some guidance so will you help a sister out? Doesn't this seem perplexing to you? I think Adonai is far beyond gender and that in Christ we are one. But still how does the wisdom fit with its feminine qualities and it being created?

Wisdom, in Proverbs 8 is not said to be 'created', but already existing with God. This may be demonstrated if needful. Some mistake some of the words therein.

In short, Wisdom is Jesus (in Proverbs 8, had been) eternally at the side of the Father, on the Throne of Deity.

Why is then Wisdom spoken of as 'feminine'? Good question. I prayed and asked God about it. He gave me the answer awhile ago. in Short see:

2Sa 12:3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.​

​

This does not make the Son of God literally a woman, but illustrates the submissive character of relationship of Son to that of the Father, wherein the Son always honours the Father's will [Exodus 20:12; Malachi 1:6], and thus is paralleled in 2 Samuel 12:3 with the words (a lamb), “was unto him as a daughter”, for Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father is “wisdom”.

​

It also ties into Adam and Eve representing the "our image" of the intimate at-one-ment of the Father and Son, and Holy Ghost (God) which unites.

 

[trofimus]

I find this so interesting...

Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out: "To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. "O naive ones, understand prudence; And, O fools, understand wisdom. "Listen, for I will speak noble things; And the opening of my lips will reveal right things. "For my mouth will utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. "All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them. "They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. "Take my instruction and not silver, And knowledge rather than choicest gold. "For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things cannot compare with her. "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine. "By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. "The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men. "Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways. "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it. "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts. "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the Lord . "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."
Proverbs 8:1‭-‬36 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/pro.8.1-36.NASB

So we know God, Yud Heh Vav Heh, Elohim, is male as is Yeshua. But here we have Godly wisdom, created and possessed by Him at the beginning. Thus we have the word, but now wait why is wisdom, Godly wisdom female? Please be patient with me, and humor me, will ya? I am sure my thinking here needs some guidance so will you help a sister out? Doesn't this seem perplexing to you? I think Adonai is far beyond gender and that in Christ we are one. But still how does the wisdom fit with its feminine qualities and it being created?

Why exactly do you think that wisdom is female?

Also, why do you think the wisdom, the book Proverbs is talking about, was created?

 

[PyongPing]

These may help you also:

Mat_23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus uses the illustration of "hen" for himself. There are other OT uses like this.

Isa_49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

The word of God, the Bible is also like as a "teat" which gives "milk":

Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

There are some (not you), who turn it to sour (curdled; Job 10:10) milk by abusing that teat (Judges 19:25), even "wrest[ing]" it (2 Peter 3:16), see Isaiah 28.

 

[CharliRenee]

Wisdom, in Proverbs 8 is not said to be 'created', but already existing with God. This may be demonstrated if needful. Some mistake some of the words therein.

In short, Wisdom is Jesus (in Proverbs 8, had been) eternally at the side of the Father, on the Throne of Deity.

Why is then Wisdom spoken of as 'feminine'? Good question. I prayed and asked God about it. He gave me the answer awhile ago. in Short see:

2Sa 12:3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.​

​

This does not make the Son of God literally a woman, but illustrates the submissive character of relationship of Son to that of the Father, wherein the Son always honours the Father's will [Exodus 20:12; Malachi 1:6], and thus is paralleled in 2 Samuel 12:3 with the words (a lamb), “was unto him as a daughter”, for Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father is “wisdom”.

​

It also ties into Adam and Eve representing the "our image" of the intimate at-one-ment of the Father and Son, and Holy Ghost (God) which unites.

Ok, I love that last bit and can see how you explain the female quality, and it being Jesus, but doesn't this....

"From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;

Suggest created?

Btw, thank you for responding. You are kind. God Bless you. You have already given me worthwhile insight.

 

[CharliRenee]

Why exactly do you think that wisdom is female?

Also, why do you think the wisdom, the book Proverbs is talking about, was created?

My questions come from this in regards to the created...
. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;

And the female question about wisdom is because of the female pronoun she referenced a couple times at the beginning of chapter 8. I know that I wasn't reading it correctly so hence, here I am.

 

[PyongPing]

More on "sour" (Hosea 4:18).

 

[PyongPing]

Ok, I love that last bit and can see how you explain the female quality, and it being Jesus, but doesn't this....

"From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;

Suggest created?

Btw, thank you for responding. You are kind. God Bless you. You have already given me worthwhile insight.

It seems that way (created), but with a closer look, it means eternal, allow me to show you? Good questions. Really. I had the same. I prayed to God, and He answered.

I have a 42 page answer, but will try to condense it to a single (2 part) usable (I hope and pray) response.

For those not desirous of lengthy and meticulous study, here is the summary of the Key words and ideas:

Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB and elsewhere, speaks about "wisdom". This "wisdom" is the Son of God the Father as attested by local and global scriptural [KJB] context [ie, see 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJB], and many others in history, as cited in the main.

Some have taken the passage, and keywords therein, and have come to the erroneous conclusion that the Son of God is a created being [such are the WTS/JW, Arians, etc], or at the very least if not 'created', was brought into being by the Father by some unknown process [these persons speculatively vary about the manner], at some unspecified point in eternity past.

The words that are focused upon in Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB, are the words:

[1] "possessed [me]",​

​

[2] "set up",​

​

[3] "brought forth" [x2] and​

​

[4] "him, as one brought up [with him]":​

The definitions of these words, in their immediate context eliminates any idea of the Son of God the Father being "created" or having come into existence at some point in eternity past, but teach that the Son of God the Father, was always and eternally with the Father, and never at any point in eternity past not in existence as the Son, and in the act of creation, as seen in Genesis 1, which Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB relates, it was by the instrumentatlity of the person of the Son, who was with the Father, that the person of the Father created the Heaven and the earth and the things thereof, for the Father spake in Genesis to the Son, and the Son made, and the person of Holy Ghost/Spirit moved in response to this:

"possessed [me]":

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB eliminates the meanings/uses of “buy”, “bought”, “get”, “purchased”, “buyer”, “getteth”, “got”, “buyest”, “attain”, “cattle” [property], “getting” [obtain, possess], “gotten” [obtained, received [a birth, Cain from Eve]], “jealousy”, “recover” [buy/purchase back at cost to oneself], “redeemed” [buy/purchase back at cost to oneself], “verily [buy]” [truly purchase at dear sacrificial cost], since the words “in the beginning of his way” [Proverbs 8:22 KJB], “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning” [Proverbs 8:23 KJB], “I was there” [Proverbs 8:27 KJB], “Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;” [Proverbs 8:30 KJB], except it be connected to the redemption plan as it is in Christ Jesus, or to the effect that the Father exchanged words with the Son, and the Son believed the Father, or an interchange, exchange of ideas [like as merchandising], the Father sharing His will with the Son, and the Son rejoicing in that will.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “possessed me” carries with it the meanings of “possessor”, “possessors”, which is to intimately know through and through [such as the word “possession” is understood, such that the Holy Ghost/Spirit should possess the whole heart, lest devils occupy/possess it], or to completely occupy or dwell in fully [such as to “possess” the land/earth, and the heart is the like unto the soil], to be LORD or Master of [such as a Father unto a Son], to own [to belong to someone's person], to have all or the whole entirety of something such as the whole mind/heart/spirit.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “possessed me” carries with it the meanings of “keep” [raise cattle, like as to raise a sheep, like as a Lamb, the Lamb of God in the Father's care], “owner” [one who has a purchased possession, such as a cow or Lamb]. The image then is of a tender compassionate Father caring for His Son, holding the Son in His arms, close to His bosom [as Jesus had done with John], cherishing the relationship as Father to Son, see 2 Samuel 12:3 KJB for a pictoral type.​

"set up":

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB eliminates the meanings/uses of “molten” [to form], “melteth”, “offer” [as a sacrifice, or to pour out as in offering], “cover” [to place over], “pour” [out as in offering], “poured” [a drink offering, in anointing an object, etc.], except it be in the meaning of 'poured out upon', as in “anointed” [of the Holy Ghost/Spirit] from everlasting, as the Son of God is indeed, the “Christ” even before He is born [Matthew 2:4; Luke 2:11,26 KJB] and/or in the meaning of being the one chosen [and chose] to be “offer[ed]” in sacrifice from before all things were made; a life to be “poured out” as a gift for the redemption, for sin should it arise.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “set up” carries with it the meanings of “set”, but also dealing with the “anointed” heir and King.​

... to be continued ...

 

[PyongPing]

My questions come from this in regards to the created...
. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;

And the female question about wisdom is because of the female pronoun she referenced a couple times at the beginning of chapter 8. I know that I wasn't reading it correctly so hence, here I am.

... continued ...

"brought forth" [x2]:

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB eliminates the meanings/uses of “pain”, “painful”, “pained”, “sorrow”, “grievous”, “grievously”, “grieved”, “fall [grievously]”, “great [pain]”, “anguish”, “afraid [troubled]”, “fear”, “wounded”, “tremble”, “trembled”, “shaketh”, “driveth”, “wounded” since the words “rejoicing always before him” [Proverbs 8:30 KJB], “Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.” [Proverbs 8:31 KJB] are associated, which would go with the meanings of “dance” and “danced”. The only way the other meanings may be included within the contextual definition, is in reference to the Son's Godly awesome reverential wonder at the beautiful and marvelous will of His eternal Father, and in the plan of redemption which included the cross. For instance, see “The fear of the LORD” - Proverbs 8:13 KJB.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB also eliminates the meanings of 'giving birth' to, as meaning in coming into existence/world at some point in time, such as “travail”, “travailed”, “driveth” [as to push forward], “shapen”, “made”, “bring forth”, “brought [forth]”, “bare”, “calve”, “formed” since the words “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way” [Proverbs 8:22 KJB], “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning” [Proverbs 8:23 KJB], “I was there” [Proverbs 8:27 KJB] and “Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.” [Proverbs 8:30 KJB]. The context declares that the Son had ever been with the Father from eternity, ever “with” Him. The only way the other meanings may be included within the contextual definition, is in reference to the Son's being born/made of a woman, taking upon Himself the flesh nature of mankind, and entering into the world through the miracle of “the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh” [1 Timothy 3:16 KJB].​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “brought forth” carries with it the meanings of “stayed” [waited patiently or attended to another, as in 'waiting upon', or ever at the ready, ever at the right hand to obey, called upon to attend], “abide”, “hope” [quietly wait upon/for], “look” [towards, up to], “patiently”, “rest”, “tarried”, “trust”, “wait”, “waited”, since the words “When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:” [Proverbs 8:27 KJB], “When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:” [Proverbs 8:28 KJB], “When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:” [Proverbs 8:29 KJB], “Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;” [Proverbs 8:30 KJB; see also Psalms 40:8 KJB]. Thus when the eternal Father called for the eternal Son, the Son who ever waited upon the will of His Father, said, 'Yes, Father, here am I.' and thus the Son was brought to accomplish the Father's decrees.​

"him, as one brought up [with him]":

The Son was eternally the “fellow” [associate, companion, neighbour, etc] of the Father, for notice that it does not say that the Son became the fellow at any time past, but simply says, “the man, my fellow”:​

​

Zechariah 13:7 KJB - Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.​

​

The Son is the eternal “help meet”, the “right hand of” [thus ever at His right hand] of the Father. The Son is the ever “faithful” one, the ever “obedient” one to His eternal Father, ever honouring His eternal Father's requests and commands, always “delight[ing]” [Proverbs 8:30; Psalms 40:8 KJB] in doing His will. Ever “rejoicing” in the will of His eternal Father. The Son eternally and ever “believes” the word of His eternal Father, and there is no doubt in the Son about the Father. When the eternal Father says, “My Son.” The Son says, “Here am I, my Father.” Most precious. Think of this eternal relationship. Pray right now. Doesn't your own hurt burn within you to be as the Son?​

Thus on the whole, when the eternal Father was to create the Heaven and the earth in Genesis 1 [as recounted by Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB], implementing the plan of redemption which had been hid for eternity in the mind of God should sin arise as it had done in Lucifer's rebellion, the Father by His direction/command/will, He called for the eternal Son to implement that plan, and direction, and the anointed Son ever willing to obey and Honour His Father, rejoicing before His Father carried out the will of the Father and made ["and God made"] all things as specified by the Father ["and God said"], the Holy Ghost/Spirit moving ["the Spirit of God moved"] in response to these things. Thus the Father made all things by His Son - by Wisdom, which had eternally been with the Father.

 

[trofimus]

My questions come from this in regards to the created...
. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;

And the female question about wisdom is because of the female pronoun she referenced a couple times at the beginning of chapter 8. I know that I wasn't reading it correctly so hence, here I am.

"She" is just in the English translation, so I suppose its because the word "wisdom" in English is feminine...?

Established is not created, IMHO. I think it refers to their relationship as the Son is of the Father, like also ancient creeds say. Also, the text is careful with saying that it was before eternity, before the time has begun. But by creating something the time would began already.

 

[CharliRenee]

"She" is just in the English translation, so I suppose its because the word "wisdom" in English is feminine...?

Established is not created, IMHO. I think it refers to their relationship as the Son is of the Father, like also ancient creeds say. Also, the text is careful with saying that it was before eternity, before the time has begun. But by creating something the time would began already.

Oh thank you, very interesting. Wisdom is just in the english translation. Very good. Thank you. I feel d da d now. Thank you. And the other point is well presented too. Thank u.

 

[trofimus]

Oh thank you, very interesting. Wisdom is just in the english translation. Very good. Thank you. I feel d da d now. Thank you. And the other point is well presented too. Thank u.

Do not take my word for it... I just checked the first "she" in Greek so I gave my idea, just a thought.

 

[PyongPing]

I know that I wasn't reading it correctly so hence, here I am.

No worries sister. They are good honest questions. I read no evil or trap intent in your questions. You are genuine. May you be blessed as you prayerfully ask God and study more that you also may know for yourself, though I thank you to be part of service in sharing what has been shared with me from God.

 

[CharliRenee]

It seems that way (created), but with a closer look, it means eternal, allow me to show you? Good questions. Really. I had the same. I prayed to God, and He answered.

I have a 42 page answer, but will try to condense it to a single (2 part) usable (I hope and pray) response.

For those not desirous of lengthy and meticulous study, here is the summary of the Key words and ideas:

Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB and elsewhere, speaks about "wisdom". This "wisdom" is the Son of God the Father as attested by local and global scriptural [KJB] context [ie, see 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJB], and many others in history, as cited in the main.

Some have taken the passage, and keywords therein, and have come to the erroneous conclusion that the Son of God is a created being [such are the WTS/JW, Arians, etc], or at the very least if not 'created', was brought into being by the Father by some unknown process [these persons speculatively vary about the manner], at some unspecified point in eternity past.

The words that are focused upon in Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB, are the words:

[1] "possessed [me]",​

​

[2] "set up",​

​

[3] "brought forth" [x2] and​

​

[4] "him, as one brought up [with him]":​

The definitions of these words, in their immediate context eliminates any idea of the Son of God the Father being "created" or having come into existence at some point in eternity past, but teach that the Son of God the Father, was always and eternally with the Father, and never at any point in eternity past not in existence as the Son, and in the act of creation, as seen in Genesis 1, which Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB relates, it was by the instrumentatlity of the person of the Son, who was with the Father, that the person of the Father created the Heaven and the earth and the things thereof, for the Father spake in Genesis to the Son, and the Son made, and the person of Holy Ghost/Spirit moved in response to this:

"possessed [me]":

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB eliminates the meanings/uses of “buy”, “bought”, “get”, “purchased”, “buyer”, “getteth”, “got”, “buyest”, “attain”, “cattle” [property], “getting” [obtain, possess], “gotten” [obtained, received [a birth, Cain from Eve]], “jealousy”, “recover” [buy/purchase back at cost to oneself], “redeemed” [buy/purchase back at cost to oneself], “verily [buy]” [truly purchase at dear sacrificial cost], since the words “in the beginning of his way” [Proverbs 8:22 KJB], “I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning” [Proverbs 8:23 KJB], “I was there” [Proverbs 8:27 KJB], “Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;” [Proverbs 8:30 KJB], except it be connected to the redemption plan as it is in Christ Jesus, or to the effect that the Father exchanged words with the Son, and the Son believed the Father, or an interchange, exchange of ideas [like as merchandising], the Father sharing His will with the Son, and the Son rejoicing in that will.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “possessed me” carries with it the meanings of “possessor”, “possessors”, which is to intimately know through and through [such as the word “possession” is understood, such that the Holy Ghost/Spirit should possess the whole heart, lest devils occupy/possess it], or to completely occupy or dwell in fully [such as to “possess” the land/earth, and the heart is the like unto the soil], to be LORD or Master of [such as a Father unto a Son], to own [to belong to someone's person], to have all or the whole entirety of something such as the whole mind/heart/spirit.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “possessed me” carries with it the meanings of “keep” [raise cattle, like as to raise a sheep, like as a Lamb, the Lamb of God in the Father's care], “owner” [one who has a purchased possession, such as a cow or Lamb]. The image then is of a tender compassionate Father caring for His Son, holding the Son in His arms, close to His bosom [as Jesus had done with John], cherishing the relationship as Father to Son, see 2 Samuel 12:3 KJB for a pictoral type.​

"set up":

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB eliminates the meanings/uses of “molten” [to form], “melteth”, “offer” [as a sacrifice, or to pour out as in offering], “cover” [to place over], “pour” [out as in offering], “poured” [a drink offering, in anointing an object, etc.], except it be in the meaning of 'poured out upon', as in “anointed” [of the Holy Ghost/Spirit] from everlasting, as the Son of God is indeed, the “Christ” even before He is born [Matthew 2:4; Luke 2:11,26 KJB] and/or in the meaning of being the one chosen [and chose] to be “offer[ed]” in sacrifice from before all things were made; a life to be “poured out” as a gift for the redemption, for sin should it arise.​

​

The context of Proverbs 8 KJB thus helps us to know that the phrase “set up” carries with it the meanings of “set”, but also dealing with the “anointed” heir and King.​

... to be continued ...

Your mind is phenomenal. Wow!!! I have spent a good 30 min really examining your responses. I received them with joy. You have really put time into your thought process here and I truly appreciate it.

 

[Quantrill]

That this Personification of Wisdom was with God before He created the heavens and earth is clear from these passages. Which brings up another question to me, which I don't believe is derailing the thread. It involves (Prov. 8:30-31) Here, (8:30), it declares that this Wisdom was daily the delight of the LORD. And then says in (31) that Wisdom's delight was with the sons of men.

Yet this was before the creation of the heavens and earth, but wisdom delighted in the sons of men. How could Wisdom delight in the sons of men long before the heaven and earth were created?

Quantrill

 

[CharliRenee]

That this Personification of Wisdom was with God before He created the heavens and earth is clear from these passages. Which brings up another question to me, which I don't believe is derailing the thread. It involves (Prov. 8:30-31) Here, (8:30), it declares that this Wisdom was daily the delight of the LORD. And then says in (31) that Wisdom's delight was with the sons of men.

Yet this was before the creation of the heavens and earth, but wisdom delighted in the sons of men. How could Wisdom delight in the sons of men long before the heaven and earth were created?

Quantrill

Hmmmm very interesting observation, one I hope gets a1 addressed. I'd like to know unless it is not referring to right at that time He was delighting the sons of men. Hmmmm? Good question indeed.

 

[p_rehbein]

I find this so interesting...

Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out: "To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men.

"O naive ones, understand prudence; And, O fools, understand wisdom. "Listen, for I will speak noble things; And the opening of my lips will reveal right things. "For my mouth will utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. "All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them. "They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.

"Take my instruction and not silver, And knowledge rather than choicest gold. "For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things cannot compare with her. "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.

"By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries.

"The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

"Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways. "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it. "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts. "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the Lord . "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."
Proverbs 8:1‭-‬36 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/pro.8.1-36.NASB

So we know God, Yud Heh Vav Heh, Elohim, is male as is Yeshua. But here we have Godly wisdom, created and possessed by Him at the beginning. Thus we have the word, but now wait why is wisdom, Godly wisdom female? Please be patient with me, and humor me, will ya? I am sure my thinking here needs some guidance so will you help a sister out?

Doesn't this seem perplexing to you? I think Adonai is far beyond gender and that in Christ we are one. But still how does the wisdom fit with its feminine qualities and it being created?

OK!

I gonna helps ya out......

Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice? On top of the heights beside the way, Where the paths meet, she takes her stand; Beside the gates, at the opening to the city, At the entrance of the doors, she cries out: "To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men.

"O naive ones, understand prudence; And, O fools, understand wisdom. "Listen, for I will speak noble things; And the opening of my lips will reveal right things. "For my mouth will utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. "All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them. "They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.

"Take my instruction and not silver, And knowledge rather than choicest gold. "For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things cannot compare with her. "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.

"By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries.

"The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

"Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways. "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it. "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts. "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the Lord . "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."
Proverbs 8:1‭-‬36 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/pro.8.1-36.NASB

So we know God, Yud Heh Vav Heh, Elohim, is male as is Yeshua. But here we have Godly wisdom, created and possessed by Him at the beginning. Thus we have the word, but now wait why is wisdom, Godly wisdom female? Please be patient with me, and humor me, will ya? I am sure my thinking here needs some guidance so will you help a sister out?

Doesn't this seem perplexing to you? I think Adonai is far beyond gender and that in Christ we are one. But still how does the wisdom fit with its feminine qualities and it being created?


.........There, that should helps lots.......no, no, no need to thank me, my pleasures

.

 

[PyongPing]

Yet this was before the creation of the heavens and earth, but wisdom delighted in the sons of men. How could Wisdom delight in the sons of men long before the heaven and earth were created?

Not all of Proverbs 8 is before the creation of the earth. There is a progression in the verses:

Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: (Genesis 1:1)
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: (Genesis 1:6ish)
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: (Genesis 1:10ish)
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth (Genesis 1:20-24ish); and my delights were with the sons of men (Genesis 1:26 and onward).

I pray that this was helpful to you and my sister.

 

[PyongPing]

Your mind is phenomenal. Wow!!! I have spent a good 30 min really examining your responses. I received them with joy. You have really put time into your thought process here and I truly appreciate it.

God is to be praised. All glory to God. Without God, I would be what I was before ... a very wicked ...

God has given me a new mind/heart to serve with.

I rejoice in your rejoicing in God's love to us for His unspeakable gift in Christ Jesus.

 

[p_rehbein]

Now.............on a serious note:

There is an excellent Article concerning this very question you should read...........

(excerpt)

Proverbs 8 is a specific type of poem called an Encomium — a poem of praise. You may be familiar with some others, such as 1 Corinthians 13’s praise of love, Hebrews 11’s praise of faith, and Proverbs 31:10–31’s praise of the virtuous wife. This is important to know because we cannot interpret the Bible’s poetry in the same way as we do its historical narratives, its prophecies, its apocalyptic passages, etc.

(found here)

Why is wisdom referred to as a “she” in Proverbs?