Secession is the only hope for peace in USA.

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Quantrill said:
It is the correct section as it is described as government, political, agendas, and conspiracies. No miscomprehension.

Quantrill
Click to expand...

you're right. probably someone who joined 3 weeks ago better understands how the sections are used than someone who's been here for over 5 years.
 
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Quantrill said:
How is that 'unifying' when everyone has a different thought, expression, and opinion.
Click to expand...

what do you imagine government by popularly elected officials and democratic process are based on, uniform thought and political opinion?

Quantrill said:
Another oxymoron. Freedom of experession is not a unifying factor. It instead helps divide.
Click to expand...

see definition of fascism: 'forcible suppression of opposition'

Quantrill said:
That doesn't mean you can't have freedom of expression to a degree, but it is not what unifies.
Click to expand...

see definition of fascism: 'exalts nation above the individual and stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader' or in this case a panel of 9 dictatorial leaders
 
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Conspiracy & Corruption Discussion Forum
Forum for Christian discernment of government/political/corporate/academic conspiracy

a forum section dedicated to discussion of perceived conspiracies, be it either in government, politics, corporations, academia etc.

not for discussion of politics so much as discussion of conspiracy within politics.

what's interesting about this thread is that the actual conspirator is the one who started it and populated it with his own conspiracies. more often its someone talking about what they see as a conspiracy going on, not a person actually conspiring.

what he's conspiring is inciting the overthrow of the government. i keep tossing around the notion that i have a duty to report Q to the NSA, but then i think, this forum is google-searchable; i'm sure that especially now that i've included certain keywords, an algorithm has probably already red-flagged the discussion.

God bless America, btw, land of the free :)
♪ from the mountains, to the valleys .. ♫
 
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Quantrill said:
The only peaceful solution is too allow a secession of some sort so that people can live under the government that they want.
Click to expand...

no one is forcing you to stay in America. if you detest our form of secular government in fact we'd like it better if you left.
if you garner enough private wealth your best bet might be to establish yourself in some third world country with a weak & corruptible government that will allow you a breadth of autonomy in exchange for bribes.

another possibility for the would-be cult leader or aspiring dictator is to buy a private island, though it has its own problems. i've taken the liberty to copy an article below that contains some useful advice in that regard ((citation at bottom of page)):






WorldIslandInfo.com​

Starting Your Own Island Country

“Let’s blow this fascist popsicle stand! Purchase a small island somewhere, and start our own country.” – Montgomery Burns

People thinking about forming their own nation often turn to islands: they appeal to people’s sense of dominion, and their borders are clear. One just might get away from it all, and start something new.

But a new island country requires an island, and citizens, and there difficulties begin.

Problems
Four problems are paramount:
1. There are no undiscovered or unclaimed islands—with one partial exception.
2. Existing countries are quite protective of their sovereignty and territorial integrity.
3. There is no recognized process for forming your own country, and it comes essentially down to power.
4. It is difficult to obtain a population for a startup country.

Solutions….and more problems
People have tried to get around these problems in a variety of ways.

Problem 1: No undiscovered islands
● Since existing islands are claimed, some conclude that they should just build new ones.
● However, it is quite difficult to find suitable places that do not fall under some kind of national jurisdiction. If you are making your own land, it has to be outside countries’ territorial waters (generally 12 miles offshore) and exclusive economic zones (generally 200 miles from land)—and there is little or no shallow water outside of such zones. For instance, the would-be Principality of New Utopia is planned for the Misteriosa Bank in the Caribbean—but it seems to be in the Exclusive Economic Zones of both Honduras and the Cayman Islands (UK). Both countries have signed the Law of the Sea Treaty, which gives them power to regulate new island creation.
● The partial exception to the dearth of unclaimed territory is Antarctica, which is essentially international, with nations’ territorial claims effectively suspended. But the continent is supervised by all the most powerful countries on the planet, and they would not let a startup country grab some of it.
● (There is a cheat to the land problem, in the eyes of the island purist: build a floating island city—there are several schemes kicking around. But these would be mere ships, in truth. And there is the oil rig solution, notably represented by “Sealand,” a surplus-gun-platform “country” off the coast of England.)

Problem 2: Existing countries want their islands
● You can buy islands in many countries, but that means that you are a landowner, not a separate country.
● While most countries will not surrender sovereignty over a piece of land, it might be possible to find one so poor or corrupt that it would do so. Some right-wing Americans thought Haiti fit the bill a couple of decades ago, and attempted to buy the Île de la Tortue (Tortuga Island) off the northern coast. They were going to form the usual libertarian paradise, but even Haiti proved insufficiently abject to fall for the scheme. (The fate of thousands of Haitians already living on the island was unclear.)
● You can try to take an island by force, but fortunately for the small states of the Pacific and the Caribbean there are powerful countries that prevent that sort of thing.

Problem 3: No process for forming new countries
● The best solution is to become a leader in an island that might like to break away from its country: Nevis, of St. Kitts-Nevis, for instance. The separate islands of the Comoros have each achieved substantial autonomy under their own leaders in recent years. And East Timor has made the transition to sovereign nation.
● You still need recognition from the international community. And that requires sympathy, triggered by oppression of your little island, or at least popular support for its breaking away.
● Barring that, you can try to seize an island nation whole. This has been attempted by mercenaries in the Comoros (with some success), Vanuatu, and the Maldives. Once again, it runs into the problem of great power protectors.

Problem 4: Need for citizens
● The breakaway inhabited island solves this problem, but otherwise you have to convince people to come live on your island.
● Build-your-own-island schemes typically dangle libertarian freedom as their lure.
● Forming your own cult is promising. A breakaway Mormon sect in the mid-19th century took this route, briefly declaring Beaver Island in Lake Michigan to be their kingdom. But cults tend to be unstable and draw the attention of authorities quickly.

So starting your own island country is not easy. As a consolation, you might buy one of the many uninhabited islands in a tolerant country such as the US, Britain, or Canada and declare your own “nation.” If you don’t cross certain legal lines, you may get away with a lot.



​



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to WorldIslandInfo.com home.



© 1995-2011 Joshua Calder

Contact Joshua Calder at calder.josh[at]gmail.com with questions or suggestions.



original article link:
http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting island country.html
 
posthuman said:
that's exactly what i said.
9 dictators on a panel.

and who picks them?
what if as a body they are ideologically divided?
Click to expand...

Again, no we don't. What I described is a Supreme Court that doesn't dictate over the States. It would have authority only in areas of military, national defense, and trade. All other issues would be settled by the State. You don't have that now.

With the power lessened from the Fed. Supreme Court, it won't matter as much how they are chosen as they will have less influence upon each state.

Quantrill
 
posthuman said:
you're right. probably someone who joined 3 weeks ago better understands how the sections are used than someone who's been here for over 5 years.
Click to expand...

If you got a problem with it, turn it over to the moderators and let them put it where they want to. I believe it is in the correct place.

Quantrill
 
posthuman said:
what do you imagine government by popularly elected officials and democratic process are based on, uniform thought and political opinion?



see definition of fascism: 'forcible suppression of opposition'



see definition of fascism: 'exalts nation above the individual and stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader' or in this case a panel of 9 dictatorial leaders
Click to expand...

Again, I am talking about what unifies. I didn't say I was against freedom of expression. But freedom of expression does not unify. If freedom of expression unifies, why are we not unified?

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Again, no we don't. What I described is a Supreme Court that doesn't dictate over the States. It would have authority only in areas of military, national defense, and trade. All other issues would be settled by the State. You don't have that now.

With the power lessened from the Fed. Supreme Court, it won't matter as much how they are chosen as they will have less influence upon each state.

Quantrill
Click to expand...

exactly what i said. individual fascist states under a unified dictatorial military & economic power.
guess what happens when one of your so-called-independent totalitarian states has a difference of opinion concerning trade or martial activity? squish.
 
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posthuman said:
no one is forcing you to stay in America. if you detest our form of secular government in fact we'd like it better if you left.
if you garner enough private wealth your best bet might be to establish yourself in some third world country with a weak & corruptible government that will allow you a breadth of autonomy in exchange for bribes.

another possibility for the would-be cult leader or aspiring dictator is to buy a private island, though it has its own problems. i've taken the liberty to copy an article below that contains some useful advice in that regard ((citation at bottom of page)):






WorldIslandInfo.com​

Starting Your Own Island Country

“Let’s blow this fascist popsicle stand! Purchase a small island somewhere, and start our own country.” – Montgomery Burns

People thinking about forming their own nation often turn to islands: they appeal to people’s sense of dominion, and their borders are clear. One just might get away from it all, and start something new.

But a new island country requires an island, and citizens, and there difficulties begin.

Problems
Four problems are paramount:
1. There are no undiscovered or unclaimed islands—with one partial exception.
2. Existing countries are quite protective of their sovereignty and territorial integrity.
3. There is no recognized process for forming your own country, and it comes essentially down to power.
4. It is difficult to obtain a population for a startup country.

Solutions….and more problems
People have tried to get around these problems in a variety of ways.

Problem 1: No undiscovered islands
● Since existing islands are claimed, some conclude that they should just build new ones.
● However, it is quite difficult to find suitable places that do not fall under some kind of national jurisdiction. If you are making your own land, it has to be outside countries’ territorial waters (generally 12 miles offshore) and exclusive economic zones (generally 200 miles from land)—and there is little or no shallow water outside of such zones. For instance, the would-be Principality of New Utopia is planned for the Misteriosa Bank in the Caribbean—but it seems to be in the Exclusive Economic Zones of both Honduras and the Cayman Islands (UK). Both countries have signed the Law of the Sea Treaty, which gives them power to regulate new island creation.
● The partial exception to the dearth of unclaimed territory is Antarctica, which is essentially international, with nations’ territorial claims effectively suspended. But the continent is supervised by all the most powerful countries on the planet, and they would not let a startup country grab some of it.
● (There is a cheat to the land problem, in the eyes of the island purist: build a floating island city—there are several schemes kicking around. But these would be mere ships, in truth. And there is the oil rig solution, notably represented by “Sealand,” a surplus-gun-platform “country” off the coast of England.)

Problem 2: Existing countries want their islands
● You can buy islands in many countries, but that means that you are a landowner, not a separate country.
● While most countries will not surrender sovereignty over a piece of land, it might be possible to find one so poor or corrupt that it would do so. Some right-wing Americans thought Haiti fit the bill a couple of decades ago, and attempted to buy the Île de la Tortue (Tortuga Island) off the northern coast. They were going to form the usual libertarian paradise, but even Haiti proved insufficiently abject to fall for the scheme. (The fate of thousands of Haitians already living on the island was unclear.)
● You can try to take an island by force, but fortunately for the small states of the Pacific and the Caribbean there are powerful countries that prevent that sort of thing.

Problem 3: No process for forming new countries
● The best solution is to become a leader in an island that might like to break away from its country: Nevis, of St. Kitts-Nevis, for instance. The separate islands of the Comoros have each achieved substantial autonomy under their own leaders in recent years. And East Timor has made the transition to sovereign nation.
● You still need recognition from the international community. And that requires sympathy, triggered by oppression of your little island, or at least popular support for its breaking away.
● Barring that, you can try to seize an island nation whole. This has been attempted by mercenaries in the Comoros (with some success), Vanuatu, and the Maldives. Once again, it runs into the problem of great power protectors.

Problem 4: Need for citizens
● The breakaway inhabited island solves this problem, but otherwise you have to convince people to come live on your island.
● Build-your-own-island schemes typically dangle libertarian freedom as their lure.
● Forming your own cult is promising. A breakaway Mormon sect in the mid-19th century took this route, briefly declaring Beaver Island in Lake Michigan to be their kingdom. But cults tend to be unstable and draw the attention of authorities quickly.

So starting your own island country is not easy. As a consolation, you might buy one of the many uninhabited islands in a tolerant country such as the US, Britain, or Canada and declare your own “nation.” If you don’t cross certain legal lines, you may get away with a lot.



​



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to WorldIslandInfo.com home.



© 1995-2011 Joshua Calder

Contact Joshua Calder at calder.josh[at]gmail.com with questions or suggestions.



original article link:
http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting island country.html
Click to expand...

Please....save your love it or leave it speech for someone else. And I'm not going anywhere. When you see problems you try and produce solutions. You don't leave.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Again, I am talking about what unifies. I didn't say I was against freedom of expression. But freedom of expression does not unify. If freedom of expression unifies, why are we not unified?

Quantrill
Click to expand...

totalitarianism unifies. forcibly.

you're saying, dissolve the nation into anarchic cells under tyrannical economic and military rule. for the sake of preserving the nation lol.
essentially medieval fiefdom & barony.
 
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posthuman said:
exactly what i said. individual fascist states under a unified dictatorial military & economic power.
guess what happens when one of your so-called-independent totalitarian states has a difference of opinion concerning trade or martial activity? squish.
Click to expand...

Pay attention. You give the Supreme Court the authority to rule in certain areas. That means they have the right to rule. Just like now, the States don't like many of the Supreme Court rulings. Yet they abide by them.

Quantrill
 
posthuman said:
totalitarianism unifies. forcibly.

you're saying, dissolve the nation into anarchic cells under tyrannical economic and military rule. for the sake of preserving the nation lol.
essentially medieval fiefdom & barony.
Click to expand...

I said nothing of the sort.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
No, you haven't read what I have said if you say that. God back and reread.

Quantrill
Click to expand...

if you and your neighbor across the street disagree, which one of you has to move a thousand miles away because the other has 'seceded' and formed their own nation?
 
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posthuman said:
if you and your neighbor across the street disagree, which one of you has to move a thousand miles away because the other has 'seceded' and formed their own nation?
Click to expand...

Does not apply to what is being said. Like I said, go back and reread, or just read what has been said.

Quantrill
 
posthuman said:
if you and your neighbor across the street disagree, which one of you has to move a thousand miles away because the other has 'seceded' and formed their own nation?
Click to expand...

Exactly, this is where theory and ideas fall apart, at the practical and real world level.
 
posthuman said:
Conspiracy & Corruption Discussion Forum
Forum for Christian discernment of government/political/corporate/academic conspiracy

a forum section dedicated to discussion of perceived conspiracies, be it either in government, politics, corporations, academia etc.

not for discussion of politics so much as discussion of conspiracy within politics.

what's interesting about this thread is that the actual conspirator is the one who started it and populated it with his own conspiracies. more often its someone talking about what they see as a conspiracy going on, not a person actually conspiring.

what he's conspiring is inciting the overthrow of the government. i keep tossing around the notion that i have a duty to report Q to the NSA, but then i think, this forum is google-searchable; i'm sure that especially now that i've included certain keywords, an algorithm has probably already red-flagged the discussion.

God bless America, btw, land of the free :)
♪ from the mountains, to the valleys .. ♫
Click to expand...

Go ahead and report what you want. And when they read what I have said, they will ask you....where did you get all that? Then you will have to tell them, well, I didn't really read it all.

Quantrill
 
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