Sin unto death

[Locoponydirtman]

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
1 John 5:16‭-‬17 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.5.16-17.NASB

This is a hard one to understand. There is sin which is forgivable and sin unto death. Does that person die right then? Like Ananias And Sapphira. How would you know if they didn't die right then? Is it possible that there are folks lost beyond salvation or even possibly once and for all lost their salvation?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
1 John 5:16‭-‬17 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.5.16-17.NASB

This is a hard one to understand. There is sin which is forgivable and sin unto death. Does that person die right then? Like Ananias And Sapphira. How would you know if they didn't die right then? Is it possible that there are folks lost beyond salvation or even possibly once and for all lost their salvation?

“16 If any man see his Brother sin a sin which is not unto death (refers to direction other than the Cross, done in ignorance), he shall ask, and He shall give him life for them who sin not unto death. (The Believer who understands God’s Prescribed Order of Victory, which is the Cross, should pray for those who are ignorantly going in a direction opposite of the Cross.) There is a sin unto death (speaks of unbelief; this group is not opposing the Cross because of ignorance, but rather because they simply do not believe in the Atoning work of Calvary): I do not say that he shall pray for it. (While it is pointless to pray that God would forgive such a person, it is proper to pray that the blindness of their unbelief will be removed.)”

“17 All unrighteousness is sin (refers to any deviation from the Word): and there is a sin not unto death. (This is a lack of trust in the Cross due to ignorance, not unbelief. While such sin will bring great disturbance upon the individual, it will not cause one to lose their soul.)” 1 John 5:16-17

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[PyongPing]

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
1 John 5:16‭-‬17 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.5.16-17.NASB

This is a hard one to understand. There is sin which is forgivable and sin unto death. Does that person die right then? Like Ananias And Sapphira. How would you know if they didn't die right then? Is it possible that there are folks lost beyond salvation or even possibly once and for all lost their salvation?

It is speaking about the unforgivable sin, involving the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 12:32), or as David says, the great transgression (Psalms 19:13). This eventually leads unto the "second death", or "twice dead" of which there is no life from (Revelation 20).

For instance, in the cases of King Saul, and Ananias and Sapphira, they had grieved away the Holy Ghost. It doesn't have to be instant physical death, as in the cases of Ananias and Sapphira, but can be delayed physical death as in the case of King Saul, for he lived for awhile after grieving away the Holy Spirit. Other cases are like those in the days of Noah, wherein the Holy Spirit of God was speaking to the hearts of people, and though they rejected this, yet even after Noah entered the Ark, their time was prolonged for 7 more days, though they were all lost (Genesis 7:10).

Prayer for them (days of Noah) after that door was closed would be not heard. This is why it is written:

Isa_55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is it possible that there are folks lost beyond salvation or even possibly once and for all lost their salvation?

This is not about salvation and the unsaved. It is about believers who persist in sin and die prematurely. You mentioned Ananias and Sapphira, and that's a good example. Also see 1 Cor 11:30, where "sleep" means "die".

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is speaking about the unforgivable sin, involving the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost

No, that is not what the "sin unto death is". The context makes it clear that John is speaking about Christian brothers and sisters, not enemies of Christ and blasphemers.

If any [Christian] man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (1 Jn 5:16)

 

[glf1]

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
1 John 5:16‭-‬17 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.5.16-17.NASB

This is a hard one to understand. There is sin which is forgivable and sin unto death. Does that person die right then? Like Ananias And Sapphira. How would you know if they didn't die right then? Is it possible that there are folks lost beyond salvation or even possibly once and for all lost their salvation?

Hey! Locopony... PTL!
First of all, there is no reason to pray for someone who has already died, as that's too late to make a difference. For example, in 2 Sam 12: 15-23. vs's 22, 23) "And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

The unforgiveable sin is unforgivable even for those who are living in the world to come. And by not doing so, we'll be choosing the Lord. Which makes it possible for us to love the Lord because we want to love him and not because we are forced to do so by fate.

This verse also shows us the supreme importance of praying for our stumbling brethren and what a difference such prayers can make in their lives by giving them life.

Maranatha!

 

[trofimus]

I have heard a simple explanation that John is referring to Jewish idea of sin:

a) sins possible to be forgiven (a lie, stealing etc.)
b) sins with the death punishment (adultery, witchcraft, spiritism, homosexuality etc).

John would be (in such a case) saying that if you pray for some adulterer (for example), its not certian that God will hear your prayers and forgive him.

---

But its just a hypothesis, you are right that the verse is difficult to understand.

 

[mailmandan]

Physical death (1 Corinthians 11:30) or spiritual death? (Revelation 2:11).

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing sin that leads them to spiritual death, but does that fit the context? 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly practice committing] sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

 

[rob1414]

Hi All, this is an interesting verse, I had written a short paper on this earlier & just updated it. For those who are interested, here is the link (dropbox pdf file).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1vwxyjvt9n89o7/1john5-16.pdf?dl=0

Any omissions, corrections or clarification comments with supporting verses are appreciated.

Blessings...

Rob

 

[p_rehbein]

(my two cents)

Regarding the unpardonable sin, I take the words of Jesus (as recorded in Matthew) literally.

Matthew 12:30) He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

This, in my opinion, is certainly speaking of Spiritual death. Unforgiven sin can in no wise enter into Heaven. The debate arises when people define what "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" is.

Here is one definition:

blasphemy:

1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
2. Judaism.
   1. an act of cursing or reviling God.
   2. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using asubstitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

Whatever definition one arrives at, it is clear to me that Christ says this sin will not be forgiven in this world, OR in the world to come...........

 

[glf1]

(my two cents)

Regarding the unpardonable sin, I take the words of Jesus (as recorded in Matthew) literally.

Matthew 12:30) He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

This, in my opinion, is certainly speaking of Spiritual death. Unforgiven sin can in no wise enter into Heaven. The debate arises when people define what "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" is.

Here is one definition:

blasphemy:

1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
2. Judaism.
   1. an act of cursing or reviling God.
   2. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using asubstitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

Whatever definition one arrives at, it is clear to me that Christ says this sin will not be forgiven in this world, OR in the world to come...........

Hey! p rehbein... PTL!
I can see the definitions above are referring to blasphemy in general, but since this discussion is about unforgivable sin; So I'll address the above definitions with that thought in mind:
First though, what scripture tells us that the pronunciation of the Lord's name, in any form, is forbidden?
Jesus told us about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in response to being accused of doing his miracles by the power of the devil. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isn't forgiven, but blasphemy of God, or of the Father, or of the Son will be forgiven; so your point #1 above is too general because blasphemy of God will, in fact, be forgiven. Point #2.1 seems to be the same as your Point #1 to me. My first question above is regarding your Point #2.2. Your Point #3, isn't really even blasphemy, but rather is heresy, which also, is forgivable.
Maranatha!