adoption by God

[luigi]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Read Galatians 4:6 alongside Romans 8:16, and 8:15 (and 8:14 also). (Gal4:6 - "ye are")


Romans 8:15 [bsb] - "15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship [son-placement], by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” "

 

[Dino246]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Verses 14-17 declare clearly that we are "already" God's children. Verses 18-25 are about the resurrection, the hope we hold that this life is not all there is. So the adoption that Paul refers to in verse 23 is not adoption to becoming God's children, but to our immortal bodies.

 

[Pemican]

The "redemption of our body" refers to the resurrection of believers and the moral body putting on immortality. We will have in the future a body just like the body the resurrected Christ.

 

[luigi]

Read Galatians 4:6 alongside Romans 8:16, and 8:15 (and 8:14 also). (Gal4:6 - "ye are")


Romans 8:15 [bsb] - "15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship [son-placement], by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” "

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

While I recognize having received the spirit of adoption as indicated in Romans 8:15; Paul nevertheless, in Romans 8:23 clearly indicates our waiting for the Lord to complete this adoption.
And while the Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are Gods children (Romans 8:16), how can we say we are God's children prior to completing the adoption?
In my opinion, the Spirit is bearing witness with our spirit that we are Gods children, which happens at a future point in time.
This is the only way I see in reconciling how we currently groan within ourselves in hope for this adoption to be complete.(Romans 8:23)

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[luigi]

Verses 14-17 declare clearly that we are "already" God's children. Verses 18-25 are about the resurrection, the hope we hold that this life is not all there is. So the adoption that Paul refers to in verse 23 is not adoption to becoming God's children, but to our immortal bodies.

Why then is the creature waiting earnestly for God's children to be manifest, if we are already God's children?Romans 8:19

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

On occasion, Paul drew from cultural experience to illustrate doctrinal truths. One of those was the Christian's Armor found in Ephesians. No doubt he was looking at a Roman guard and listed his armor with spiritual applications.

Another one is the example of adoption, wherein he used Roman law to show his point.

In Rome a father can disown his own natural son for whatever reason, but when he adopts a son he is forbidden to disown him by law. The logic would seem to be that you have no choice really in who your natural offspring are, but you do with an adoption. In order to adopt the parent chooses the son after due consideration.

Our flesh is not saved . . . only our soul and our spirit are . . . but one day our earthly body will be exchanged for a glorified body in the likeness and image of Jesus Christ Himself. That is still future, which is why we are waiting for it. We are not waiting for our spiritual salvation . . . it's a done deal.

At any rate, we are adopted into the family of God and God is not able to disown us if we are washed in the Blood of the cross.

 

[Deuteronomy]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Hopefully this will help a bit too:

........Romans 8
........14 All who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
........15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which
........we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
........16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
........17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be
........glorified with Him.

Paul’s description of the climax of salvation for which we are eagerly awaiting furthers this sense of eschatological tension. For the “adoption” that, in vv. 14–17, we were said already to possess is here made the object of our hope. Some seek to relieve the tension thus created by making only the “Spirit of adoption,” not the adoption itself, a present possession of the Christian, but Paul clearly goes further than that in vv. 14–17. Christians, at the moment of justification .. cf John 5:24, are adopted into God’s family; but this adoption is incomplete and partial until we are finally made like the Son of God himself (v. 29). This final element in our adoption is “the redemption of our bodies.”

“Redemption” shares with “adoption” and many other terms in Paul the “already-not yet” tension that pervades his theology, for the redemption can be pictured both as past and as future. As Paul has hinted in v. 10, it is not until the body has been transformed that redemption can be said to be complete; in this life, our bodies share in that “frustration” which characterizes this world as a whole (cf. 20) ~Moo, D. J. (1996). The Epistle to the Romans

~Deut

 

[luigi]

On occasion, Paul drew from cultural experience to illustrate doctrinal truths. One of those was the Christian's Armor found in Ephesians. No doubt he was looking at a Roman guard and listed his armor with spiritual applications.

Another one is the example of adoption, wherein he used Roman law to show his point.

In Rome a father can disown his own natural son for whatever reason, but when he adopts a son he is forbidden to disown him by law. The logic would seem to be that you have no choice really in who your natural offspring are, but you do with an adoption. In order to adopt the parent chooses the son after due consideration.

I see this not as Paul's own imaginings, but rather the Lord inspiring Paul.
As such, is the Lord using Roman law to show His point about a forthcoming adoption, while before being adopted being called Gods children?
It does not make sense to me. The only way I see these verses making sense is as I have stated previously; the Spirit is confirming with our spirits that we are Gods children in a future tense. We are yet not perfected, and until such, have not been adopted.
Romans 8:13 affirms this when stating that unless we overcome our carnal natures, we will then not be adopted, but will instead die.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[luigi]

Hopefully this will help a bit too:

........Romans 8
........14 All who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
........15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which
........we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
........16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
........17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be
........glorified with Him.

Paul’s description of the climax of salvation for which we are eagerly awaiting furthers this sense of eschatological tension. For the “adoption” that, in vv. 14–17, we were said already to possess is here made the object of our hope. Some seek to relieve the tension thus created by making only the “Spirit of adoption,” not the adoption itself, a present possession of the Christian, but Paul clearly goes further than that in vv. 14–17. Christians, at the moment of justification .. cf John 5:24, are adopted into God’s family; but this adoption is incomplete and partial until we are finally made like the Son of God himself (v. 29). This final element in our adoption is “the redemption of our bodies.”

“Redemption” shares with “adoption” and many other terms in Paul the “already-not yet” tension that pervades his theology, for the redemption can be pictured both as past and as future. As Paul has hinted in v. 10, it is not until the body has been transformed that redemption can be said to be complete; in this life, our bodies share in that “frustration” which characterizes this world as a whole (cf. 20) ~Moo, D. J. (1996). The Epistle to the Romans

~Deut

I agree about our adoption not complete, as the creature earnestly awaiting the manifestation of Gods children indicates a future perspective.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

 

[John146]

I agree about our adoption not complete, as the creature earnestly awaiting the manifestation of Gods children indicates a future perspective.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Agreed. Our bodies must be redeemed to complete the adoption. That's the believer's destination. That's the glory that shall be revealed to us. The earnest of the Holy Spirit has made it possible to be called a son of God in the present because the future is absolute.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[luigi]

Agreed. Our bodies must be redeemed to complete the adoption. That's the believer's destination. That's the glory that shall be revealed to us. The earnest of the Holy Spirit has made it possible to be called a son of God in the present because the future is absolute.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The future is absolute, which according to Romans 8:13, they who live for their flesh shall die (future expectation), while they who continue overcoming their carnal nature shall have the expectation of adoption into Gods household. Romans 8:23.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[John146]

The future is absolute, which according to Romans 8:13, they who live for their flesh shall die (future expectation), while they who continue overcoming their carnal nature shall have the expectation of adoption into Gods household. Romans 8:23.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Our future is certain the moment we trust the gospel of Jesus Christ. Here's the order:

1. Hear the gospel
2. Believe the gospel
3. Sealed by the Holy Spirit guaranteeing our future adoption

Ephesians 1
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[luigi]

Our future is certain the moment we trust the gospel of Jesus Christ. Here's the order:

1. Hear the gospel
2. Believe the gospel
3. Sealed by the Holy Spirit guaranteeing our future adoption

Ephesians 1
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I used to believe the way you and many others do, until I realized the number of contradicting scriptures indicating otherwise.
Rather than go into what has been repeated countless times about the subject; the one point I will make is that God is not an author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), and as such His Word confirms His Word throughout the bible.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

God's adoption of his children is done in the same manner as we adopt children today. First process is to select the child, as God did in selecting his elect children in Eph 1:4. Second process is to pay the price for the adoption of God's elect, which Christ did on the cross, in John6:39. Third process is when the child is taken home, as Jesus will do when he comes back to gather together God's elect and take them home.

 

[luigi]

God's adoption of his children is done in the same manner as we adopt children today. First process is to select the child, as God did in selecting his elect children in Eph 1:4. Second process is to pay the price for the adoption of God's elect, which Christ did on the cross, in John6:39. Third process is when the child is taken home, as Jesus will do when he comes back to gather together God's elect and take them home.

We all know what Christ did on the cross. Likewise, we all know that the Lord will come back to gather they that are His.
These basic tenets, however, do nothing in eliminating the required overcoming of our fleshly desires in order to be among the spiritually inclined and not the fleshly inclined.
The fleshly inclined shall most certainly die, and will not be among Gods children (Romans 8:13).
You have to rectify all scriptures into a single clear picture, otherwise you have conflicting data in Gods Word, which makes God an author of confusion, which cannot be.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Dino246]

Why then is the creature waiting earnestly for God's children to be manifest, if we are already God's children?Romans 8:19

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

The answer is in the distinction between subjects, as I explained in my previous post.

 

[luigi]

The answer is in the distinction between subjects, as I explained in my previous post.

I have taken the liberty of copying your previous post in highlight.

Dino: Verses 14-17 declare clearly that we are "already" God's children. Verses 18-25 are about the resurrection, the hope we hold that this life is not all there is. So the adoption that Paul refers to in verse 23 is not adoption to becoming God's children, but to our immortal bodies.

According your perspective, the Lords Word through Paul is that these are two different subjects; the first adopted and complete, and the second awaiting adoption and incomplete being in regards to our immortal bodies?

Are you making this stuff up to support an OSAS perspective?

Where does the Lord's Word differentiate between these two hypothetical entities in one?

What the Lords Word does differentiate is between they who will overcome their fleshly desires, and thus will be His children, who will be adopted and manifested as Gods children in the end; and the second group who will live for their flesh, and will die, and will not be among the adopted children of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


What part of this verse confuses people. DOES IT SAY WE MIGHT DO THESE THINGS? NO, IT SAYS WE WILL (WE WILL BE, WE WILL KNOW, WE WILL APPEAR AND WE WILL BE LIKE HIM AND WE WILL SEE HIM AS HE IS

I do nto see the words MIGHT, or We Willl as long as we do this or that.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

It also says we will be like Him WHEN He appears. Again, this is speaking of our bodies . . . NOW are we saved (the sons of God) LATER we will be glorified.

Presently, our bodies are not saved. They will suffer corruption. But we have a new body in the new heaven and the new earth.