Temple of God - Christians or a physical building in Jerusalem?

[Hevosmies]

It would appear that you have a very superficial understanding of Dispensationalism. Kindly take some time to study it properly, and you will find that it is THE BEST way to understand Bible prophecy. No allegorizing, spiritualizing , or fantasizing.

If you have never read anything by Lewis Sperry Chafer, John F. Walvoord, Charles C. Ryrie, etc. then you owe it to yourself (and this is for all who criticize Dispensationalism without getting a handle on it).

I admit I have not read those books and have holes in my understanding, as we all do. All I have done is listen to sermons by dispensational preachers. And as is often the case: Not all agree on everything. There are variations, as there are with amills etc.

So I would like to ask you Nehemiah: DO you believe that Matthew,Mark and Luke are for the christian today. I am asking because some have said (Bryan Denlinger, Gene Kim, to name a few [they are dispies]) that what is for the church is only the epistles of Paul, and that worries me greatly if the words of Jesus are swept under the rug so to speak.
Because of the fact that AFTER His resurrection(new covenant in effect) Jesus said Go and teach ALL NATIONS to keep what I have commanded you (past tense, what He taught in His earthly ministry).

Here is an example of a dispensationalist who denies much the gospels are for christians today, right from this forum; THIS is what worries me:

You will not find one Christian in the four gospels. Most of it is doctrinally written to the nation of Israel. Some of what Jesus taught is prophetic to the church.

The sermon on the mount, for example, is doctrinal to the Jews during the reign of Christ on earth. The gospel as we know it was not believed on until after the resurrection. The Lord would reveal the entirety of the gospel to Paul.

This is exactly like I said: Its always to the jewsjewsjews. Despite the fact that the disciples were believers in Jesus, not unbelieving antichrist-jews.

 

[trofimus]

Then, on the earth, during the Tribulation period, God is once again dealing with the nation of Israel.

What do you base this assumption on? And why do you even think there will be some period without the church, in the future?

 

[Quantrill]

What do you base this assumption on? And why do you even think there will be some period without the church, in the future?

Let's start at the beginning. I already have mentioned that the Church did not, could not, exist until Pentecost. (John 7:38-39) The Church was yet future when Christ spoke of it in (Matt. 16:18) "....I will build my church...."

So, do you agree that there was a period prior to Pentecost without the Church?

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

Let's start at the beginning. I already have mentioned that the Church did not, could not, exist until Pentecost. (John 7:38-39) The Church was yet future when Christ spoke of it in (Matt. 16:18) "....I will build my church...."

So, do you agree that there was a period prior to Pentecost without the Church?

Quantrill

How do you define the Church?

 

[Hevosmies]

And you think that it will end and return back to the Old covenant's Israel?

Hey bro I found this article, it is quite good: https://www.samstorms.com/all-articles/post/problems-with-premillennialism/
Check it out.

This is very very interesting.

Could some premill answer the "flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom" part? Since isnt that EXACTLY what the whole premil deal is?

 

[Quantrill]

How do you define the Church?

The Church is and will be every born-again believer from Pentecost to the Rapture. They are indwelt not just by the Holy Spirit, but by the Holy Spirit in its resurrection work of Jesus Christ, thus we have the Spirit of Christ. Thus we are the Body of Christ.

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

The Church is and will be every born-again believer from Pentecost to the Rapture. They are indwelt not just by the Holy Spirit, but by the Holy Spirit in its resurrection work of Jesus Christ, thus we have the Spirit of Christ. Thus we are the Body of Christ.

Quantrill

I define church as people called from Israel and other nations to come to Sion, to the Messiah. I am not sure why you think it will have an end, even if you believe it had a beginning with Christ.

 

[Quantrill]

I define church as people called from Israel and other nations to come to Sion, to the Messiah. I am not sure why you think it will have an end, even if you believe it had a beginning with Christ.

You didn't answer my question. Do you agree that there was no Church of Jesus Christ before Pentecost?

Quantrill

 

[luigi]

Do some actually believe there was no spiritual body of Christ within people prior to Pentecost?

 

[trofimus]

You didn't answer my question. Do you agree that there was no Church of Jesus Christ before Pentecost?

Quantrill

Church, ekklésia, means "called out". In the general meaning, elected people from Israel and other nations were church before Christ.

Specifically Christ's church, people called out by Christ, is, of course, after Christ.

But even if I accept your theory, that the church generally has begun after Christ, the main point I am asking is, why do you think it will end and why do you think God will deal with Israel as nation again.

 

[Quantrill]

Hey bro I found this article, it is quite good: https://www.samstorms.com/all-articles/post/problems-with-premillennialism/
Check it out.

This is very very interesting.

Could some premill answer the "flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom" part? Since isnt that EXACTLY what the whole premil deal is?

The millennial rule is the Kingdom of God on earth and it specfically is composed of flesh and blood. Though it is the Kingdom on earth, people will still die. Still be born. Still have a sin nature.

(1 Cor. 15:50) is not addressing the millennial Kingdom. Paul is addressing the Kingdom of God as to it's eternal state. Thus everyone in the millennium during the millennial rule will either die or at the end have their bodies reknewed as those at the Rapture did.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Church, ekklésia, means "called out". In the general meaning, elected people from Israel and other nations were church before Christ.

Specifically Christ's church, people called out by Christ, is, of course, after Christ.

But even if I accept your theory, that the church generally has begun after Christ, the main point I am asking is, why do you think it will end and why do you think God will deal with Israel as nation again.

You still didn't answer the question. Why?

Quantrill

 

[Hevosmies]

The millennial rule is the Kingdom of God on earth and it specfically is composed of flesh and blood. Though it is the Kingdom on earth, people will still die. Still be born. Still have a sin nature.

(1 Cor. 15:50) is not addressing the millennial Kingdom. Paul is addressing the Kingdom of God as to it's eternal state. Thus everyone in the millennium during the millennial rule will either die or at the end have their bodies reknewed as those at the Rapture did.

Quantrill

I see: So lets say a sheep gets into the kingdom, eternal life. Then reproduces there, then satan is loosed and a rebellion occurs. What prevents this sheep from being deceived by satan? Why is only the OFFSPRING of this sheep deceived?

Further, could you answer my question I proposed to Nehemiah and John? At post #101 : Do you believe the Gospels Matthew Mark and Luke are for christians today? Or is it only Paul's epistles?

 

[trofimus]

You still didn't answer the question. Why?

Quantrill

I did. The post #110

 

[Quantrill]

I see: So lets say a sheep gets into the kingdom, eternal life. Then reproduces there, then satan is loosed and a rebellion occurs. What prevents this sheep from being deceived by satan? Why is only the OFFSPRING of this sheep deceived?

Further, could you answer my question I proposed to Nehemiah and John? At post #101 : Do you believe the Gospels Matthew Mark and Luke are for christians today? Or is it only Paul's epistles?

All will be saved who first enter the millinnium. All will be sheep. And of course they will have children. Some of those will not be believers. But they cannot openly rebel at that time as Christ will not allow it and Satan is bound in the pit for those 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is loosed and will gather all those unbelieving and rebellious to Himself.

Those who are of Christ will not follow Satan. Not only do they know only the voice of Christ, but Christ is there and would never allow it. Christ will not lose one person who is His.

The whole Bible is for the believer to use and grow in knowledge of. Much of what Jesus said in the Gospels was to the Jews and they were under Law at that time. So in all of the Gospels everything written is from God and we can make application in our lives of the things Jesus said. But some things will have more emphasis concerning the Jews, especially in the book of (Matthew). It is heavily Jewish as it presents Jesus Christ as the King of the Jews. The Gospel of John will have more direct meaning to the Church as it presents Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I did. The post #110

I'm not sure you did. You said, 'even if I accept your theory'.

So, do you agree that there was a time period where the Church did not exist?

Quantrill

 

[Hevosmies]

Speaking of temples guys. Is there ANYWHERE in the NEW TESTAMENT that even remotely suggests that God is going: Back to deal with Israel, and/or that there will be animal sacrifices in the future?

Alls I can find is that Jesus was the once and for all sacrifice, and that the old covenant's done. Ironically this is written in the book of Hebrews

 

[Quantrill]

Speaking of temples guys. Is there ANYWHERE in the NEW TESTAMENT that even remotely suggests that God is going: Back to deal with Israel, and/or that there will be animal sacrifices in the future?

Alls I can find is that Jesus was the once and for all sacrifice, and that the old covenant's done. Ironically this is written in the book of Hebrews

(Ez. 40-48) This speaks of the millennial temple and the priesthood and worship.

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

I'm not sure you did. You said, 'even if I accept your theory'.

So, do you agree that there was a time period where the Church did not exist?

Quantrill

I said that the word church means "called out". People of God were called out from the beginning (like Abel).

But to move on, lets say the the church of Christ began with Christ. Now, why do you think it will end and why do you think physical Israel will be called by God as a nation again, apart from the church of Christ.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And you think that it will end and return back to ...

[re: "the Church which is His body"] What "ends" is its location on the earth (at the time of our Rapture [at the meeting... of the Lord "IN THE AIR"]), and is one of the primary things that instigates Israel coming to understand that Jesus is indeed their Messiah [though not 100% of them will come to believe and embrace this (they will still be existing on the earth during the 70th-Wk/7-yrs, and those who come to faith within the trib will be the ones doing the "INVITING" of the then-existing Gentiles, TO/FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, which will commence upon His "return" to the earth (Rev19)]

Presently, it is "blindness... UNTIL" [re: Israel]