Predestination or free wiil.

[SweetStars]

Preston39, i read the book of Job when i was a child, if i remember correctly God explained to Job, that His knowledge, power, mercy, love, his whole Being goes much more deeper that we could ever imagine, we are unable to understand it. I don't remember there being any part where God says "I do not wish to know it all". Could you please refer to the part that you are speaking of? Also why do you refer to God as G-d?

 

[Deade]

This is just my thoughts, but i believe is Predestination for God, because God knows everything that was and is going to happen, but for us is free will because we are currently living in the present and do not know the future, but being completely honest, i'm not sure if is that clear. I myself do not know this perfectly, so i just leave it as part of the mysteries that will be reveal on God's perfect time.

I liked SweetStars answer the best. Why not just leave it alone and choose what is the good way for ourselves.

1 Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is one of those debates that from the predestination point of view is meaningless. Why? Because God has simply predestined me to believe in free will, so nothing can change that.

The Bible teaches both, free will and predestination. Instead of choosing just one, we must reconcile both.
But you ask: Where is free will taught? For example: When God commands His people to repent, and says "but ye would not" or something similar to that.

It would make no sense for God to ask people to repent, when it is infact His fault they wont repent. All God has to do is give them repentance and faith, as the calvinists believe. Yet God refuses to give people this grace, and continues to ask and command them to repent. This is not logical, nor biblical, and just makes God out to be the same as Pharaoh in these verses:

Exodus 5:16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants are beaten; but the fault is in thine own people.

Pharaoh was asking something unreasonable.

God does not ask the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, to repent from breaking a spiritual law. The inspired scriptures were not written to the natural man, but to his regenerated children telling them how he wants them to live their lives while they are on earth. Anytime you see the words, repent confess, accept, believe etc. they are directed to the disobedient children of God.The only way that the natural man can become spiritual is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5, and it has nothing to do with the natural man's actions.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

G-d can know everything...but, does He choose to know all? Study the book of Job for the answer.

That does not sound right to me, how about a specific scripture.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The reconciliation is in the Scripture already. The very first part is "Whom God did foreknow...........He did predestine"
They always leave out the foreknowing part because it defeats their ideology...........

God foreknows who will freely choose to love Him, and become one of His, and He predestines that person to be able to do so by equipping them with the power of the Holy Spirit so that they are able to. They STILL have free will. God does not take away free will........EVEN AFTER a person is saved...........

You might ought to read Ps 53:2-3. to find out what God's foreknowledge was.

 

[Jackson123]

This is some thing we do not know.

In the last judgement when Jesus say: "Go to hell, depart from Me, because you do not believe in Me"

He will answer: "Not my fault Lord, you predestined me to hell, that is why I do not believe in you while I life on earth. Why You mad to me, while you predestined me to hell. It is Your fault".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I liked SweetStars answer the best. Why not just leave it alone and choose what is the good way for ourselves.

1 Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust the Lord with all thin heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is some thing we do not know.

In the last judgement when Jesus say: "Go to hell, depart from Me, because you do not believe in Me"

He will answer: "Not my fault Lord, you predestined me to hell, that is why I do not believe in you while I life on earth. Why You mad to me, while you predestined me to hell. It is Your fault".

God did not predestine anyone to hell. Read Ps 53:2-3, We would have all gone to hell if God had not chosen some before the world began Eph 1:4.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

The biggest flaw I see with people teaching predestination is the assumption that knowledge of the future is the same as pre-determining peoples choices. The two are not the same.
If a weather man predicts rain tomorrow did he make it rain, or did he simply know what was going to happen?

 

[garee]

He installed...free will...so we must choose...right from wrong. Exactly what they did in the garden....wrong.

He installed a will subject to His commandments. The faher of lies installed a will in the opposition of the will of God.

God did not create a free will. But did a will subject to his commandment.

When mankind violated the will of God sent a strong delusion to them to believe the lie. by creating a evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[Jackson123]

God did not predestine anyone to hell. Read Ps 53:2-3, We would have all gone to hell if God had not chosen some before the world began Eph 1:4.

Only 2 choice if God chose mean predestined to heaven

If God not chose automatically predisten to hell

 

[craig1971]

Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.

Okay I Samuel 23:1-15 shows God's foreknowledge in action without predestination:

...then David said, “Lord, God of Israel, I have heard that Saul is planning to come to Keilah and destroy it on account of me, your servant. 11 Will the citizens of Keilah hand me over to Saul? Will Saul really come, as I have heard? Lord, God of Israel, I beg you to answer me!”
The Lord answered, “Saul will come.”

12 “And will the citizens of Keilah hand my men and me over to Saul?” David asked again.
“They will,” the Lord answered.


Both these questions the Lord answered, demonstrating God's foreknowledge, but where they predestined?

David's freewill response, "...13 So David and his men—about six hundred in all—left Keilah at once and kept on the move. When Saul heard that David had escaped from Keilah, he gave up his plan..."

Here you have an instance were God foreknew what would happen, but it did not happen, because David exercised his freewill and left Keilah.

God knows what is going to happen based upon the decision you make, but that does not mean it is predestined.

 

[dcontroversal]

Many are called but few chosen <---If God predetermined that man x would be saved and nothing could prevent this then it would say ALL are chosen. NOTE...NOT ALL are CALLED and LESS chosen.

God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth <---If no choice then ALL MEN would be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Almost thou persuadeth me to be a Christian <--ALMOST but NOT QUITE......He obviously had a choice to reject that which ALMOST persuaded him.

I mean we can go all day long with these lines of thought......and YES, GOD knows how will and who will not and by CHOICE can call a man to the truth or NOT....HE also can delude MEN so tha they might be judged "damned" <--all who will not receive the love of the truth...

My view....

Before God cast down creation he PREDETERMINED that ALL who come to hi through Christ will be redeemed, saved and received as his children.

There are so many scriptures that can be given to weigh out the above and all that the OP's question involves......pages of biblical scripture and replies.....

 

[Dan58]

Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.

John 3:16, "Whosoever believeth in him should not perish".. That's a choice that everyone freely chooses to accept or reject. While its true that God is omniscient (all knowing), its also true that God is omnipotent (all powerful). So in that sense, what might have been known by God can also be altered by God. If God did not intercede with Paul on the road to Damascus, what may have been known would not have changed. Whereby, every soul is a work in progress, the final chapter is not written until God is done with us. The Hebrews prayed for deliverance from slavery for 400 years, it wasn't until God answered that their future was altered.. We are all sinners, and as such, our destiny was known, but that forgone conclusion was changed through Christ. So imo, as long as God's work is alive and working in the souls of people, his work is not finished, and no one's fate is set in stone. While God knows how it will all end, I believe on an individual basis, judgement day is a necessity reserved for what has yet to play out. God knows the future because He is the future, but that in no way eliminates free will... jmo

 

[Jackson123]

When God create human, He prepare or predestined them to live in the garden of Eden. God predestined a pretty garden for Adam, Eva and their offspring. As long as their obey Him.

God is love, so He predestined all human to live happy life not to hell.

But God also predestined human to have a free will.

If human chose not to obey or believe in Him, than god predestined this disobey go hell.

So I believe oredestination is not random.

Whosoever believe in Jesus, predestined or chosen by God

Matt 22

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

God predestined or chose who go to party/ heaven or not, not base on random. Verse 11 tell the reason why go do chose A not B

God chose people that on wedding garment.

John 3:16 explain god chose people that believe in Jesus.

Whosoever believe will be chose.

 

[Jackson123]

Tim is a rich man, he plan to married, he plan to have 2 children, he plan/prepare/predestined to make 2 houses for his children that obey to him.

First children ( Sam) born, grow, mature and obey his Dad(Tim)

Than Tim say to Sam. This is your house prepare for you before you born/before the foundation of the earth.

Tim chose Sam because he obey.

Tim also prepare a house for his second child before it born. But his second child( Peter) not obey his father.

Tim chose not give a house that prepare for Peter before he born

The fact Tim say to Sam, this is a house prepare for you before you born, do not mean he not prepare house for Peter.

Tim prepare a pretty houses for every child. Now up to the child if he obey, he will be the chosen one.


God call every body to wedding party, but only chose who on the wedding dress.

Not random.

Whosoever on the wedding dress will be chosen

God prepare room for every body before wedding party. He have enough food, the room for party is huge.

But only people on wedding dress will be chosen.

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe the scriptures to teach that God gave all mankind a free will in choosing how he wants to live his life here on earth, but man's eternal salvation in by God's choice, without man's help. There are many scriptures where God tells us to choose certain things. the only way the natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, can become spiritual (saved eternally) is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5.

It would be wise to read all of the Word as regarding this blurred vsion of predestination.

God will in no wise turn away a broken heart, and this is an offering acceptable to Him. There are lots of verses one may !quote" without feeling or understanding, but all of the Word must be understood and passed on with mercy, justice and faith…… none of these three requirements set by our Lord, Jesus are contained in the idea of predestination.

God foreknows us all when we have come to Him in repentance from our sinful life and ways…..it is in the Book

 

[PennEd]

Oh how we hate the idea that we are not in control. Is God in control or not? Of course we SAY that He is, but do we really mean it? Or is He only in control of the big stuff?

I think Jesus pretty much sums up that question here:

MATTHEW 10:
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a [i]copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

 

[John146]

It would be wise to read all of the Word as regarding this blurred vsion of predestination.

God will in no wise turn away a broken heart, and this is an offering acceptable to Him. There are lots of verses one may !quote" without feeling or understanding, but all of the Word must be understood and passed on with mercy, justice and faith…… none of these three requirements set by our Lord, Jesus are contained in the idea of predestination.

God foreknows us all when we have come to Him in repentance from our sinful life and ways…..it is in the Book

Yes! We are known of God the moment we call upon His name for salvation. God knows us at salvation.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.

Seems like you already made up your mind

But you want free will. Its all over the place. The issue is, You have to be OPEN to see it.

1. The garden, God created man and gave them everything they need, But he also gave them free will. (You want to be your own God. Eat of this tree, but know in the moment you do you will die)

2. Even Isreal. If you chose to obey and trust me, I will bless you, If you chose to disobay, I will punish you

3. FInally Salvation. If you believe I will give you eternal life. If you continue in unbelief, I will condemn you.

PS. Predestination and free will are not opposed to each other, they live in harmony, Becuse God forsees all things, Even our decisions. This our induvidual free will can not thwart Gods plan. Because God can always find someone else who will do what he needs. And he knows who those people are before he even chose them, Even some (like jonah) who he has to continue to push until he repents. Thank God he never gave up on us.. Thank Gd for free will