Not By Works

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BaptistBibleBeliever

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We do not allow women to serve in any position where the Bible ascribes to men; however, our pulpits (and some of the greatest throughout history) have been filled by men that were trained for the work of the ministry by godly women.

"The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed" (Titus 2:3-5).

In our modern day it has become more and more convenient to interpret the Bible according to the situation, rather than making the situation fit the Bible.
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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The difference between Judas and Peter makes for an interesting study.
I believe the difference is that Peter knew AND confessed WHO Jesus is.
I LOVE Peter because I take comfort in the fact that although sometimes I forget who I am, which is a Child of the One True King, which leads me to falter and stumble, I DO NOT forget who Jesus is. And that is I think what happened to Peter. He denied knowing Jesus. He DID NOT recant his confession that Jesus is the Son of God.

Interesting, that many times we falter in what is our fleshly strength not weakness. Here is Peter, the COURAGEOUS one who walks on water, who moments before was ready to take on the world with his sword on Gethsamane, and now is reduced to fearing little girls that accuse him.

Now, what was Judas repenting of? Betraying INNOCENT BLOOD, NOT betraying the Son of God. Judas NEVER acknowledges WHO Jesus is. He calls Him Rabbi, Teacher,and Master but NEVER Lord because he NEVER believed Jesus was the Son of God.

That we know of?
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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I understand but does a woman belong behind a pulpit now days. Are you familiar with Jan Crouch from Trinity broadcasting?
We have a woman pastor and arent bound by the law ..she truly is annointed!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Point is..we dont KNOW...lol..my points bout remorse n salvation are totally seperate in my posts bout judas even though some want to intertwine them..:(
I understand, and realise how frustrating this was to you (I cam in the middle a day late and dollar short as they say lolol)

But we not only can know. We do know. Judas was counted as an unbeliever in John 6, and called the devil, and the son of perdition is a term given to a son of satan not a son of God. That is not terms which can be misinterpret and given to a believer or child of God
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I’m my church the only time a woman gets behind the pulpit is to read scripture, sing, share their testimony or share about their missionary work (no preaching). We do have a woman’s group that just started up again and a woman from my church spoke at that. I’m conflicted with the whole woman preacher thing. Many women are very knowledgeable in scripture, but if the bible tells us woman shouldn’t/ cannot be preachers/ pastors, well.....
Thats the problem. People whould not be “preaching” in church, they should be “teaching”

One does not have to be pastor to teach, Anyone hwo is qulified to teach should be able to teach in church. Teaching a person is not the same as having authority over someone.
 

Jewel5712

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He denied knowing christ, or being a part of Christs inner circle, out of fear for his life.

Thats different than denying Christ as the redeemer of your sins and rejecting his salvation.
The word blaspheme n denial are 2 very different things...
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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Again, A non believer who never even heard of Jesus could do this. It is called human emotions. Emotions never determined a persons salvation.
I never implied it did..judas felt deep remorse..he confessed his wrong doung..gave the money back..NEVER said he did all that for salvation..actually posted TWICE to magenta it didnt...but i ALSO posted several times that we dont KNOW in judas last moments IF he became saved or not..Bible doesnt say n only God knows judas heart..but i really dont want to tail chase on this subject anymore ;)
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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"
SORRY SO LONG BUT A VALUABLE OUTLOOK (not my personal words)

"Biblical Texts

While the Bible does not support the practice of women serving as pastors, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes-difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus (Acts 18:24-26), correcting his incomplete and flawed theology. Further, women clearly played a significant role in the work of the Apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen significant helpers in ministry (16:1-16), and at least ten of them were women. Who knows what the health of the church at Philippi would have been were it not for Lydia (Acts 16:13-15), apparently a benefactor to the church, and others such as Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. 4:2-3)? And of course, women made a significant contribution to Jesus' ministry. Luke recalled with appreciation their financial support and company with Him (Luke 8:1-3).

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. It is, rather, the nature of their ministry in the church. More specifically, it is permissible for a woman to serve as senior pastor?

The place to begin in this, as in other biblical questions, is to ask, "What does the Bible say?" Even a cursory reading of the pertinent texts reveals three important observations: 1) there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) none of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors; and 3) some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. Paul, in 1 Tim. 2:12, states, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man" (NIV) . This verse is introduced by a statement that women should learn "in silence," and it is followed by the statement that "she must be silent." The word silence means being possessed by a calmness of spirit and peaceful disposition. It is set as the opposite to "teaching" and "having authority over a man." Paul does not expect that women will not or can not learn or teach (compare with Titus 2:3-5 and 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14,15). He states that they cannot teach or have authority over men. Thus, they cannot have a pastoral position, or perform the pastoral function, for that puts them in authority over men.

It is logical to conclude, therefore, that the issue would not be raised today if discussion of the parameters for pastoral leadership were confined to the biblical record.

Biblical Contexts

Biblical exegesis requires sensitivity to the context of a passage. When Scripture is taken out of its context, faulty conclusions and blurred perspectives result. Two matters impact this discussion significantly - the issues of literary context and cultural context. Let us first examine literary context. Each biblical writer directed his word to specific issues. The task of the biblical expositor is to determine the precise nature of those issues.

An example of the importance of correct contextual analysis occurs in Galatians 3:28. In explaining the meaning of justification, Paul said that in Christ there is "neither Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female." The outstanding social characteristic of Christianity is that ethnic ("Jew nor Greek"), economic ("bond nor free"), and gender ("male nor female") distinctions have no bearing on salvation, nor upon equal standing among all Christians. It is obvious that the context of the statement is its explanation of the impact of justification. This is a soteriological statement: it speaks to the doctrine of salvation. The teaching is that all believers, without regard to social distinctions, have equal access to God through Christ, and, consequently, are to be unified in the Body of Christ.

Near the end of his life, ten to fifteen years after the writing of the Epistle to the Galatians, Paul wrote to both Timothy and Titus, giving them pastoral instructions about how the church is to be organized. Both 1 Timothy and Titus provide clearly for a hierarchical approach to church order in which men rather than women were to occupy that role.

Some have pointed to Galatians 3:28 as justification for women serving as pastors. However, it is a misuse of Scripture to produce ecclesiastical patterns from soteriological passages! While Paul clearly affirms the equality of men and women in salvation, he equally and just as clearly affirms the priority of men in church leadership. There is no conflict. The contextual issue is crucial for an accurate exposition in this, as in all areas. Readers must exercise great care, therefore, to determine the nature of the issue under discussion in order to understand and apply the message relevantly today.

Organizational Patterns

Biblical teaching regarding church order goes hand in hand with its teaching regarding family order. Indeed the instructions for one often interrelate with instructions for the other.

One finds a similar tension in biblical teachings on family order that occurs in the doctrines of salvation and the church. Passages teaching the equality of women, reveal an important principle: in their standing before God and with each other, men and women are equal in several ways. First, they have equal value as persons (Gal. 3:28). Next, men and women have equal responsibility to communicate intimately in marriage relationships. This is seen in God's plan that marriage is to be a companionship of equals (Gen. 2:24). It is never biblically warranted for either the man or the woman to depreciate the social, intellectual, physical, or spiritual companionship of a spouse. Finally, the Bible affirms the equal responsibility of men and women in propagating life (Gen. 1:28).

On the other hand, the Scriptures teach a hierarchy of responsibilities. The wife is to submit to her husband (Eph. 5:22). Some insist the introductory words "submitting yourselves to one another" (Eph. 5:21) somehow tempers the command for wives to submit, but the explicit teaching of the passage is that wives are to submit; husbands are to love. This interpretation is confirmed by the clear parallel passage in Colossians (3:18), and the teaching of Peter (1 Peter 3:1), where submission is specifically commanded of the wife. The Greek term used for submission (hypotasso) suggests a voluntary submission based on a commitment to proper order. It does not imply an organization based on inability or inferiority. Indeed, this term seems to have been chosen by Paul to honor the unique value of the wife. In a beautiful tension, he affirms both value and order, both equality and subordination.

Blended Patterns

The models for family and church interrelate. They do so for two reasons. First, these are the two God-ordained institutions in which we find the spiritual resources for full Christian maturity. Second, these two institutions have unique ability to reveal God to a world blinded by sin. Family and church share the central place in God's economy.

The Scriptures frequently interrelate the family and the church. Paul clearly tied the two together in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. He addressed a disruption caused by some of the women in the church over hairstyles (often understood as "head covering"). In a carefully reasoned argument, Paul expressed a theological conviction. If a married woman will not proudly wear a symbol of her right relationship to her husband, her familial "head," she forfeits her privileges of praying and prophesying in church fellowships. Her ministry in the church is directly linked to her submission to her husband. Paul's words are forceful. Married women have no right to participate in the church service if they wish to assume the prerogative of family headship and/or if they wish to act as though they were single rather than married. Here proper family order is a prerequisite to a woman's participation in the church.

Paul addressed men similarly in the pastoral epistles. He argued that no man has the privilege of leading the church as bishop (pastor) unless he meets certain qualifications. At least one relates to family order: the pastor must "rule his family well" (1 Tim. 3:4; Tit. 1:6). Again, Paul's conclusion is clear and forceful. If a married man does not relate to his family properly, he forfeits his right to be pastor of the church. As before, proper family order is a prerequisite to pastoral leadership. The Bible intentionally interrelates church and family for both husbands and wives. The God-ordained leadership structure in the church is reflected in the family, and vice versa."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The word blaspheme n denial are 2 very different things...
Yes, But blasphemy of the HS is denying the words of the holy spirit, or as a dictionary I read once said, dissenting from the words of the HS (basically calling the HS a liar)

Jesus said blasphemy against him would be forgiven, but blasphemy agains tthe spirit will never be.. The HS is the one who came to teach us the gospel and help us understand it If we deny the gospel. We are calling the HS a liar. Andif we die in this state, we have committed the unpardonable sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I never implied it did..judas felt deep remorse..he confessed his wrong doung..gave the money back..NEVER said he did all that for salvation..actually posted TWICE to magenta it didnt...but i ALSO posted several times that we dont KNOW in judas last moments IF he became saved or not..Bible doesnt say n only God knows judas heart..but i really dont want to tail chase on this subject anymore ;)
Ok. Then why did you even bring this up? You brought it up as your argument, Please forgive us of thinking your purpose was to show he repented.

And again, Can we know? Yes we can. He hung himself having rejected his messiah. He never believed in him.
 

Jewel5712

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Ok. Then why did you even bring this up? You brought it up as your argument, Please forgive us of thinking your purpose was to show he repented.

And again, Can we know? Yes we can. He hung himself having rejected his messiah. He never believed in him.
Done deal EG....im not sure if youvr read EVERYONES post regarding this but your question is answered in those posts ;)
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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Yes, But blasphemy of the HS is denying the words of the holy spirit, or as a dictionary I read once said, dissenting from the words of the HS (basically calling the HS a liar)

Jesus said blasphemy against him would be forgiven, but blasphemy agains tthe spirit will never be.. The HS is the one who came to teach us the gospel and help us understand it If we deny the gospel. We are calling the HS a liar. Andif we die in this state, we have committed the unpardonable sin.
Yes..i agree but the ORIGINAL post that got this started was "to DENY CHRIST was committing the unforgivable sin..."
 

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Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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Yes, But blasphemy of the HS is denying the words of the holy spirit, or as a dictionary I read once said, dissenting from the words of the HS (basically calling the HS a liar)

Jesus said blasphemy against him would be forgiven, but blasphemy agains tthe spirit will never be.. The HS is the one who came to teach us the gospel and help us understand it If we deny the gospel. We are calling the HS a liar. Andif we die in this state, we have committed the unpardonable sin.
I think this is what youre refering to..

"Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil spirit'."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes..i agree but the ORIGINAL post that got this started was "to DENY CHRIST was committing the unforgivable sin..."
I saw that, I saw the context as rejecting jesus, ie rejecting the gospel. Which is different than What Peter did. I saw it different than you is all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think this is what youre refering to..

"Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, 'He has an evil spirit'."
Yes, remember, they said he did his miracles by beelsebub which was that evil spirit. Ie, it was not the HS who did those things, it was satan himself.

The OT prophets said the messiah would be known by doing those miracles.. They rejected those words of the HS, and attributed what jesus did to satan.. ie, the signs which proved Jesus was the messiah, they rejected.
 

Jewel5712

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Jun 22, 2018
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Well..good morning all..cant say im at my prime yet cause i havent had my coffee..my brain is still foggy but ..ill get there shortly..;)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well..good morning all..cant say im at my prime yet cause i havent had my coffee..my brain is still foggy but ..ill get there shortly..;)
I started early, on my second cup :p