Joshua’s long day

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#41
Silence and darkness are simply the absence of sound and light. They are not independent entities. As such they are properties of the universe, that is, default positions. You have silence unless you set up vibrations in a medium. There is no noise in space, because there is no physical medium. But the laws of sound exist in the universe. You just have to create the conditions. So existence is entirely distinct from experience.
You have not answered my question. Before the universe existed, were the conditions silent and dark?

And your definitions for darkness and silence are not acceptable according to me. Darkness is a reality that doesn't depend on light, it existed in eternal past without light . You can say light is dependent on darkness and therefore can define light as the absence of darkness but never darkness as the absence of light. Same applies to silence.

It is like saying, a tree is an unprocessed furniture and that a tree is dependent on the furniture. I'm saying, you can call the furniture a processed tree and not the other way round. Just because today's observation is that a furniture is processed from a tree doesn't mean there must be a connection between the two.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#42
It is obvious that you fail to understand there are 360 degrees in a circle....maybe you missed basic math in school....!
You do understand that the subject matter is a sun dial, not a circle?
1538304934022.jpeg
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#43
You have not answered my question. Before the universe existed, were the conditions silent and dark?
Come on, you know the answer is no.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#44
Come on, you know the answer is no.
Why? Explain why you think silence and darkness came into existence at certain point in time and what were the conditions before they came into existence.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
290
73
28
#45
You have not answered my question. Before the universe existed, were the conditions silent and dark?

And your definitions for darkness and silence are not acceptable according to me. Darkness is a reality that doesn't depend on light, it existed in eternal past without light . You can say light is dependent on darkness and therefore can define light as the absence of darkness but never darkness as the absence of light. Same applies to silence.

It is like saying, a tree is an unprocessed furniture and that a tree is dependent on the furniture. I'm saying, you can call the furniture a processed tree and not the other way round. Just because today's observation is that a furniture is processed from a tree doesn't mean there must be a connection between the two.

Before the universe existed there was nothing. No time, no space, no light, no darkness, no matter, no energy, no laws relating them.
Your definitions come from the world of literature. Such definitions have merit when conveying emotions, where a certain lack of precision and suspension of literalness is conducive to poetic ideas. Such definitions do not, however, extend to the world of science, which deals in cold fact and measurement. It is important not to confuse these disciplines.
Definitions of light and darkness are NOT like saying that a tree is unprocessed furniture. You are creating dependencies and relationships that don’t exist and cannot be proved.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#46
Might it be that God, the light of the world, provided light in the darkness
to make it seem like it was a long day?
The eternal God is not of this world, which nor is to say this universe. Hence, my kingdom is not of this world.

After all light was created before, the sun moon and stars.
While some might call this semantics, but technically the eternal God who is Light was not created, being the same who always was, is and will always be. If you have time, read Genesis 1:3 again and when it is written that God said let there be light, listen to what is written since it says there was light. And God saw the light.

However, if one can believe, all thing are possible to them that believeth, as it is written that the Son can do nothing of himself but that which he sees with the Father he also doeth also. Thus, "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." Gen 2:22

I have seen the “light” of God in a dream, it’s far brighter, purer and whiter
than the sun.
But then why wouldn’t the creator of the sun, not be able to shine brighter
than the sun He made?
Of course he can, just look at an x-ray, it is actually a light.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#47
Before the universe existed there was nothing.
LOL, is that your final answer? So God is nothing? A more perfect description would be that before the universe came into existence, nothing known or observed in this world existed.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#48
Why? Explain why you think silence and darkness came into existence at certain point in time and what were the conditions before they came into existence.
See response above.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#49
Why? Explain why you think silence and darkness came into existence at certain point in time and what were the conditions before they came into existence.
My two cents. Sorry in advance for the rambling

I think its one of those things that goes beyond human understanding that God must give us the faith to believe .Like the peace of God we live in.... it surpasses our limited understanding as a guide allowing us to believe the unseen eternal . Or at least my limited understanding.

Can't find God under a microscope . His ways are past finding out. There is no familiarity with God and his creation(Colossians 2:8)

It would seem there were no conditions before he created all the conditions we see . God forms light and created darkness. It was not until the fourth day that in effect God gave power of the Sun and the moon as the two forms of light used for the temporal time keepers. This is until the new heavens and earth come into view that was created within the first 6 days he did work.

I would believe from looking at the plural of generation as a beginning, as generations when they and not it(singular) were created. It helps us to know that corruption cannot put on the incorruptible. We are looking for a new incorruptible creation to come into view on the last day.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens Geneisis 2:4

In the new incorruptible order their will be no darkness.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof .And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation 21:22-25

He holds all things together by the power of His understanding. He holds the distanvce from the Sun and the moon: "come no further". or rust and erosion. We walk by faith the eternal not seen and not by sight the temporal .

The same applies to when the Israelites who wandered for forty years, their clothes or sandals did not wear out. And when they longed for the familiar things they had in Egypt he fed them the supernatural Manna .This was to help them know there is no familiar with the creation and the faithful Creator .We walk by faith and not by sight, not trusting the things seen The word manna literally means... "what is it". Or Moses who representing the law of God, striking a Rock to represent Christ and supernatural water came out to represent the gospel


The Israelites were constantly changeling their familiarity with the Creator as if he was a man as us .And even created their own source of faith in respect to the familiar things seen. Serving the doctrine of necromancy. The Hebrew word Darash translated as Seek in the first instance in the portion of scripture below . The second use of the word seek would by after the one proper manner .Called this manner, our father in heaven(Matthew 6:9)

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.Isaiah 8:19-20

Rachel who sought after familiarity hid the teraphims from her father as family idols images and worshipped what is spoken of in Colossians 2:18 in respect to fallen angels as a lying sign and wonder, intruding into those things which she did not seen, vainly puffed up by her fleshly mind,

Today the Catholics follow after that doctrine of necromancy making the word of God to no effect by which they call the sacred tradition of their fathers called patron saints. Today there are more than 3500 and rising workers with familiar spirits, picking up speed.
.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#50
Before the universe existed there was nothing. No time, no space, no light, no darkness, no matter, no energy, no laws relating them.
So was energy created?
Was Darkness and silence created? how can immaterial things be created when they don't need energy or matter or anything for their existence?

Whatever you are trying to say here is not even science and is also against the bible which says that the spirit of God (also immaterial and can not be created) was hovering over the deep in darkness. There's no specific day that God created darkness but He created light because light is energy/material dependent.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#51
LOL, is that your final answer? So God is nothing? A more perfect description would be that before the universe came into existence, nothing known or observed in this world existed.
God is not a creation . He is something.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,417
6,699
113
#52
Is this the SciFi forum? Did I just hear Bill Nye the science guy and Mr. Wizard orating out their …………...
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#53
LOL, is that your final answer? So God is nothing? A more perfect description would be that before the universe came into existence, nothing known or observed in this world existed.
God is immaterial and all immaterial things were never created and can never be destroyed because they are immaterial.
Saying they are unknown is simply incorrect - we know darkness because we can interact with it and experience it.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#54
Before the universe existed there was nothing. No time, no space, no light, no darkness, no matter, no energy, no laws relating them.
You said before the universe existed, there was nothing; and your description for nothing includes both no light and no darkness. This is a very unrealistic condition, one that can not even be imagined. Earlier, you defined darkness as absence of light which basically means no light and now one of the conditions in your nothingness before the universe existed was no light which also means darkness. So actually there was darkness before the universe existed.

Inherent contradictions- but you also want us to believe that science deals with cold fact measurement and the results are truth.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
290
73
28
#55
You said before the universe existed, there was nothing; and your description for nothing includes both no light and no darkness. This is a very unrealistic condition, one that can not even be imagined. Earlier, you defined darkness as absence of light which basically means no light and now one of the conditions in your nothingness before the universe existed was no light which also means darkness. So actually there was darkness before the universe existed.

Inherent contradictions- but you also want us to believe that science deals with cold fact measurement and the results are truth.
I said ‘no light’ and ‘no darkness’ for your sake, since you seem in doubt that one is the opposite of the other. For my own sake no light would have been sufficient. There are no contradictions, but we can fall into linguistic traps. You can have a dark room or a black hole but if you don’t have a universe, you have nothing to attach ‘dark’ to.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#56
I said ‘no light’ and ‘no darkness’ for your sake, since you seem in doubt that one is the opposite of the other. For my own sake no light would have been sufficient. There are no contradictions, but we can fall into linguistic traps. You can have a dark room or a black hole but if you don’t have a universe, you have nothing to attach ‘dark’ to.
It seems you have forgotten your definition for darkness is absence of light which also means 'no light'. So essentially what you are saying is that there was darkness before the universe existed.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#57
God is not a creation . He is something.
Who said the eternal God is a creation except you since that thought originated in your mind, not mine.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
290
73
28
#59
So was energy created?
Was Darkness and silence created? how can immaterial things be created when they don't need energy or matter or anything for their existence?

Whatever you are trying to say here is not even science and is also against the bible which says that the spirit of God (also immaterial and can not be created) was hovering over the deep in darkness. There's no specific day that God created darkness but He created light because light is energy/material dependent.
Certainly energy was created. Darkness and silence, as already explained, are the opposites of light and sound. They are default conditions; what you get in the absence of light and sound and not, as you claim, separate entities in themselves. The early universe was dark and silent, but darkness and silence do not have to be created. Light and sound emerge when the conditions for them exist, so when stars formed and when vibrations occur in a sufficiently dense medium.
Why don’t you study science? It will help you to appreciate God’s creation.