Why Jesus is NOT coming soon

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Noose

Senior Member
#141
Apr 18, 2016
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#141
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Matthew 24 and 25 is speaking about the tribulation period. The end of the Age, not the end of God's dealing with Israel as a nation.

"That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee" (Deuteronomy 30:3).

When did this happen? Is it speaking of the Babylonian captivity? I think not. This is yet future.

The Sermon on the Mount and much of the first three gospels are concerned with Kingdom living (which can not start until Israel accepts Jesus Christ as their Messiah) - and that occurs at the end of the Tribulation and the beginning of the Millennium.

God is not finished with Israel as a nation - though they be in unbelief. They will believe and be born in a day according to Zechariah.
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There's no Jew or gentile, just believers. Believers are what we call Jews/Israel in the new covenant as per:

Rom 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

So yes, God has not finished with believers and He won't.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#142
Aug 17, 2015
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#142
Noose said:
Daily sacrifice being abolished and abomination being set has always been one event, they go hand in hand
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Daily sacrifice was theologically abolished by Christ and his death, in 33 AD.

Practically/visibly it was stopped by Romans in 70 AD. No temple - no daily sacrifice.

Its so simple that I have no idea what is the problem.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#144
Apr 18, 2016
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#144
trofimus said:
Daily sacrifice was theologically abolished by Christ and his death, in 33 AD.

Practically/visibly it was stopped by Romans in 70 AD. No temple - no daily sacrifice.

Its so simple that I have no idea what is the problem.
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Abolishing of daily sacrifice is a bad thing that is only done by satan, it is the abomination, lies that satan puts in people's hearts so that they worship him (satan) as if God:

Dan 8: 10 It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.12And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.

Dan 11: 31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation. 32With flattery he will corrupt those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him


You can not associate abolishing of daily sacrifice with Christ.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#145
Sep 9, 2018
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#145
Noose said:
There's no Jew or gentile, just believers. Believers are what we call Jews/Israel in the new covenant as per:

Rom 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

So yes, God has not finished with believers and He won't.
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The gentiles are the nations - when will God deliver the nations from the nations?

Moses was speaking to the Jews.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#146
Apr 18, 2016
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#146
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
We still have seasons so we still have the Jews
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We do have the outward Jews but God is only interested in:

Gal 3:
26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The promise that Abraham was given was for believers. Take note.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#147
Apr 18, 2016
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#147
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
The gentiles are the nations - when will God deliver the nations from the nations?

Moses was speaking to the Jews.
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Why do you still have problems believing? Believers are what we call Jews or Israel, the unbelievers are what we call gentiles/Nations (including the tribal Jews from physical Israel who do not believe). God will deliver a remnant of Israel/Jews (believers) from the nations. Aren't you aware we are in Babylon right now?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#149
Aug 17, 2015
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#149
Noose said:
You can not associate abolishing of daily sacrifice with Christ.
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Heh.

"Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God."

...He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Hebrews, chapter 10.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#150
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#150
trofimus said:
No, animal sacrifices for sins were just a shadow and temporal.
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Animal sacrifice did not stop in 70 AD and the phrase "daily sacrifice" as used in Daniel doesn't mean animal sacrifice but worship.
The war is not a physical war but against principalities and powers. The temple is not a building but the heart of man.

Satan by putting lies in the heart of a man, he abolishes the daily sacrifice and sets up an abomination that causes desolate because the man can no longer worship in truth, but worships satan who by setting lies, displays himself as if God in the temple (heart).

Dan 8: 10 It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.12And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.

The verse here has explained it.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#151
Aug 17, 2015
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794
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#151
Noose said:
Animal sacrifice did not stop in 70 AD and the phrase "daily sacrifice" as used in Daniel doesn't mean animal sacrifice but worship.
The war is not a physical war but against principalities and powers. The temple is not a building but the heart of man.

Satan by putting lies in the heart of a man, he abolishes the daily sacrifice and sets up an abomination that causes desolate because the man can no longer worship in truth, but worships satan who by setting lies, displays himself as if God in the temple (heart).

Dan 8: 10 It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.12And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.

The verse here has explained it.
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Your view is not hold by early christian authors and I think its not bibilical. But you have also other deep misunderstandings of Christianity, so I see no point in discussing this for ever. Believe what you want.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#152
Apr 18, 2016
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#152
trofimus said:
Heh.

"Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God."

...He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Hebrews, chapter 10.
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1. Daniel's context is different from what you are saying. Daniel's text is about the daily sacrifice which means true worship, the kind that the Lord desires which is not the one from animals that was done annually or in certain holidays as symbolic of the true worship that was to come.

2. Daniel was prophesying about end times which are times in the new covenant after Jesus died and resurrected. So, the kind of sacrifice he was talking about was not animal sacrifice but true worship in the spirit. This kind, Jesus does not abolish, He sets but the antichrist is the one that abolishes by putting lies in our heart.

3. Hebrews 10 is talking about Christ (bringing in a new kind of sacrifice - daily sacrifice) and abolishes the annual sacrifice.

Heb 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#153
Sep 9, 2018
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#153
Noose said:
Why do you still have problems believing? Believers are what we call Jews or Israel, the unbelievers are what we call gentiles/Nations (including the tribal Jews from physical Israel who do not believe). God will deliver a remnant of Israel/Jews (believers) from the nations. Aren't you aware we are in Babylon right now?
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You reject God’s unconditional covenant with the Jews- the church does not replace Israel in that covenantal relationship.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#154
Apr 18, 2016
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#154
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
You reject God’s unconditional covenant with the Jews- the church does not replace Israel in that covenantal relationship.
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Nope, i don't.

Rom 2:29... a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Rom 9:6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Rev 2:
8“To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

..... 9I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:
7“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

.... 9I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

There's no such thing as God's unconditional covenant with tribal Jews.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#155
Sep 9, 2018
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#155
Noose said:
Nope, i don't.

Rom 2:29... a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Rom 9:6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Rev 2:
8“To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

..... 9I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:
7“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

.... 9I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

There's no such thing as God's unconditional covenant with tribal Jews.
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You are still wrong . . .

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying . . . " (Romans 11:1-2).

He goes on to describe the remnant.

I am not suggesting that all of national Israel will be saved . . . but I am saying that the promises to the Jewish remnant and to the Church of Jesus Christ are different.

Israel is God the Father's espoused bride, as in Hosea.
The Church is the bride of Christ . . . as in Revelation.

You can't make two distinct groups become one group no matter how hard you try.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#156
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#156
Noose said:
There's no such thing as God's unconditional covenant with tribal Jews.
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Nor do I, and you don't get this from the covenants . . . the covenant is with the seed of Abraham . . . the believing remnant. Their belief does not make them into members of the New Testament church . . . never . . . they are distinct.

You persist upon an error.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#157
Sep 9, 2018
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#157
trofimus said:
Your view is not hold by early christian authors and I think its not bibilical. But you have also other deep misunderstandings of Christianity, so I see no point in discussing this for ever. Believe what you want.
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Imagine Moses speaking to the children of Israel way back in Deuteronomy and promising them that they will one day be gathered from all the nations where they have been taken captivity . . . and then being told that then the Jews will no longer be Jews, but the church. How is it possible to gather the nations from the nations? I can understand delivering the Jews . . . but not the nations. But since 'tribal' Israel ceases to exist - who or what is left to gather?

And then consider that those that are scattered are in judgment for their failings . . . are we then to believe that God is 'judging' the spiritual, obedient seed of Abraham?

Scriptural blindness in part . . .

Sure, both the Jew and the Church can claim their heritage back to Abraham. The Jew 'physically' and the Church 'spiritually.' A believing Jew is still a Jew . . . even if he is from Brooklyn.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#158
Aug 17, 2015
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#158
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Imagine Moses speaking to the children of Israel way back in Deuteronomy and promising them that they will one day be gathered from all the nations where they have been taken captivity . . . and then being told that then the Jews will no longer be Jews, but the church. How is it possible to gather the nations from the nations? I can understand delivering the Jews . . . but not the nations. But since 'tribal' Israel ceases to exist - who or what is left to gather?

Scriptural blindness in part . . .
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Without any scriptural or historical reference, I do not know what you are talking about.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#159
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#159
trofimus said:
Without any scriptural or historical reference, I do not know what you are talking about.
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I thought you were closely following the thread . . . I gave the reference in #138.

"That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee" (Deuteronomy 30:3).
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#160
Aug 17, 2015
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#160
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
I thought you were closely following the thread . . . I gave the reference in #138.

"That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee" (Deuteronomy 30:3).
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I do not think this verse relate to Christian era, to Christ etc.

Its a part of the old covenant with Israel. This covenant has ended. Its not about end times.
 
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