Rich or close to Jesus

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J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#1
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#1
The CEO of BCA ( bank central Asia ) give an analogy. A million dollar and some banana was put oN the table side by side. Than a monkey was asked to chose, the monkey chose banana.

The monkey do not know that a million dollar can buy tons of banana that is why this monkey chose banana.

Mark 10:25 King James Version (KJV)

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

King James Version (KJV)


Prosperity theology pricher asked to chose, billion dollar or close to Jesus?

He chose billion dollar, he say with that money he can closer to Jesus.

And I ask, why Jesus say easier camel go through the eye of the nedle than rich man to enter to heaven?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#2
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#2
Jackson123 said:
And I ask, why Jesus say easier camel go through the eye of the nedle than rich man to enter to heaven?
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To have much of anything in this world makes you to worry about this world and to live in the world's manner.

Therefore your spiritual thinking/life is choked by it like a plant is choked by the thorn bush in Christ's illustration.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#3
trofimus said:
To have much of anything in this world makes you to worry about this world and to live in the world's manner.

Therefore your spiritual thinking/life is choked by it like a plant is choked by the thorn bush in Christ's illustration.
Click to expand...

Yep

Matthew 6:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Your heart is in the banana and you chose banana instead of million dollar.

Not easy to chose both.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#6
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#6
Noose said:
Jesus is not talking about earthly riches, He is talking with respect to:

Matt 5:3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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Lk 6:20
"Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God "

Its not about being poor in spirit, but about being blessed in spirit. The translation of Matthew (to be consistent with Luke) should be:

Blessed are the poor (blessed in spirit), for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#7
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#7
trofimus said:
Lk 6:20
"Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God "

Its not about being poor in spirit, but about being blessed in spirit. The translation of Matthew (to be consistent with Luke) should be:

Blessed are the poor (blessed in spirit), for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...
Yep, poor in spirit not inherit kingdom of heaven.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#8
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#8
trofimus said:
Lk 6:20
"Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God "

Its not about being poor in spirit, but about being blessed in spirit. The translation of Matthew (to be consistent with Luke) should be:

Blessed are the poor (blessed in spirit), for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...
Same thing, but you seem not to understand. Maybe this will help:

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and neednothing.’ But you do not realize that you arewretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#9
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#9
Noose said:
Same thing, but you seem not to understand. Maybe this will help:

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and neednothing.’ But you do not realize that you arewretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Click to expand...
You cannot just stick together verses from various contexts, even from various books and think that it must mean the same thing.

Matthew and Luke are synoptic, Revelation is not.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#10
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#10
Lucky for me (i guess?) im dirt poor. Come now Jesus.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#11
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#11
Jackson123 said:
The CEO of BCA ( bank central Asia ) give an analogy. A million dollar and some banana was put oN the table side by side. Than a monkey was asked to chose, the monkey chose banana.

The monkey do not know that a million dollar can buy tons of banana that is why this monkey chose banana.

Mark 10:25 King James Version (KJV)

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

King James Version (KJV)


Prosperity theology pricher asked to chose, billion dollar or close to Jesus?

He chose billion dollar, he say with that money he can closer to Jesus.

And I ask, why Jesus say easier camel go through the eye of the nedle than rich man to enter to heaven?
Click to expand...
Good analogies. 👍
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#12
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
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#12
There is only ONE way a camel can go through an eye of a needle.

The camel needs to be completely crushed into tiny particles that can then fit through.

Poor and rich alike need to have their flesh crushed, which is the idea that they can in some way DO OR WORK their way to Heaven, rather than simply trust in Jesus Christ, and His finished Work ALONE.

It is not about wealth or money. If so, then Abraham is in serious trouble! It's about believing in Jesus.

The rich however, are in a much tougher position to trust in Jesus alone. Many trust in their wealth. In THEIR righteousness in giving, or don't even think about eternity because of how good they have it now.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#13
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
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71
Illinois
#13
"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain" (Proverbs 30:7-9).
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#14
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#14
trofimus said:
You cannot just stick together verses from various contexts, even from various books and think that it must mean the same thing.

Matthew and Luke are synoptic, Revelation is not.
Click to expand...
Synoptic or not, same thing is being spoken, heavenly riches are not earthly riches.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#15
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#15
KJV1611 said:
Good analogies. 👍
Click to expand...
Yep, this analogy I hear from youtube, the man was a Christian from reform church that happen to be a CEO of big bank in Indonesia, I do not know why he believe money never make you Happy, It may from his experience.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#16
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#16
PennEd said:
There is only ONE way a camel can go through an eye of a needle.

The camel needs to be completely crushed into tiny particles that can then fit through.

Poor and rich alike need to have their flesh crushed, which is the idea that they can in some way DO OR WORK their way to Heaven, rather than simply trust in Jesus Christ, and His finished Work ALONE.

It is not about wealth or money. If so, then Abraham is in serious trouble! It's about believing in Jesus.

The rich however, are in a much tougher position to trust in Jesus alone. Many trust in their wealth. In THEIR righteousness in giving, or don't even think about eternity because of how good they have it now.
Click to expand...
Yep, that is what Paul say, die, or crushed. Paul die, No longer Paul anymore but Christ live in him.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#17
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#17
TheTao said:
Being poor in the spirit means being lowly and humble. A person who is poor understands that "My God shall supply all my needs according to His riches and glory through Christ Jesus."
This is a level of contentment.
Many people are distracted by thinking that they always need more. People put themselves into a bind by getting themselves into debt and always trying to do more to get out of it. Material and Spiritual go hand in hand in this aspect.
Jesus said to sell everything you have and give the money to people who need it.
There's nothing wrong about being rich in the aspect of having a business that makes you millions a year but what are you doing with the money?
It's about intention. Where is your Heart?
Can't be close to God when you are distracted by the world in other words.

Now let me ask all of you - Who is rich?
Many are thinking about millionaires or people with a lot of nice things. But can you say ......

I have food in my refrigerator and cabinets.
I have clean clothes.
I have a roof over my head. Air conditioned.
I have a computer. A phone ............... etc.

25,000 people die every day from hunger.
People don't have clean clothes or good shelter or clean water let alone any luxuries - a soft bed - a pillow - freedom of religion and expression - and the list goes on.

Now, who is rich?
Click to expand...
TheTao said:
Being poor in the spirit means being lowly and humble. A person who is poor understands that "My God shall supply all my needs according to His riches and glory through Christ Jesus."
This is a level of contentment.
Many people are distracted by thinking that they always need more. People put themselves into a bind by getting themselves into debt and always trying to do more to get out of it. Material and Spiritual go hand in hand in this aspect.
Jesus said to sell everything you have and give the money to people who need it.
There's nothing wrong about being rich in the aspect of having a business that makes you millions a year but what are you doing with the money?
It's about intention. Where is your Heart?
Can't be close to God when you are distracted by the world in other words.

Now let me ask all of you - Who is rich?
Many are thinking about millionaires or people with a lot of nice things. But can you say ......

I have food in my refrigerator and cabinets.
I have clean clothes.
I have a roof over my head. Air conditioned.
I have a computer. A phone ............... etc.

25,000 people die every day from hunger.
People don't have clean clothes or good shelter or clean water let alone any luxuries - a soft bed - a pillow - freedom of religion and expression - and the list goes on.

Now, who is rich?
Click to expand...

Matt 25

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#18
#18
I find it amusing a camel, it wasn't a camel but a rope, back then rope was made from camels hair somewhere along the line that got lost so today people think it's speaking about a literal camel. But nonetheless it's hard to put a large rope through the eye of a needle.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#19
Feb 15, 2017
9,034
4,456
113
#19
LPT said:
I find it amusing a camel, it wasn't a camel but a rope, back then rope was made from camels hair somewhere along the line that got lost so today people think it's speaking about a literal camel. But nonetheless it's hard to put a large rope through the eye of a needle.
Click to expand...
It seems that a camel is generally accepted and that gate was a gate in Jerusalem if you wanted to take a camel through it you had to unload all the baggage it carried in order to enter through.

But as you say it could be a rope going through the eye of a needle.

Cyril of Alexandria (fragment 219) claimed that "camel" is a Greek misspelling; that kamêlos (camel) was written in place of kamilos, meaning "rope" or "cable".[2][3][4] More recently, George Lamsa, in his 1933 translation of the Bible into English from the Syriac, claimed this as well. (Wikipedia)

19:24: easier for a camel: This analogy reinforces the difficulty that wealthy people face in entering the Kingdom. A few manuscripts have a Greek word meaning rope (Greek kamilos) instead of camel (Greek kamēlos), a difference of only one letter. • to go through the eye of a needle: (NLT Bible study notes)
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#20
Feb 15, 2017
9,034
4,456
113
#20
The prosperity Gospel is not anything new really.

Jesus’ comment about a rich man’s salvation would have been difficult for some Jewish people in this period to accept because they held to a form of “prosperity theology.” If people prospered, it was evidence of God’s blessing on them (NKJ study notes)

wealth was seen as proof of God’s approval, it was commonly taught by the rabbis that rich people were blessed by God and therefore, go to heaven.

I think this is why the disciples said

Matthew 19:25
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

And Jesus said

Matthew 19:26
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

But note he never said it's impossible for the materially rich

V23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Having lots of money is not an issue.
Having lots Money, wealth is not evil.
The love of money is the root of evil.

The love of money and wealth was the issue for the rich young man.
He loved it more than God and did not want to give it up.
 
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