What’s a Dad to Do?

Hungry · Sep 22, 2018

Background info:

Married 20 yrs
4 kids, 13 yr old - adult
Middle class

Situation:

When my children were younger everything was fine. There weren’t many expectations so it wasn’t difficult for my children to live up to them. Once they started competitive athletics all went downhill. I came from a poor broken family where we couldn’t do anything expensive. My wife’s family basically lived for the kids. Travel hockey and every weekend in different cities and vacations all the time. They weren’t rich, that’s just how they spent their time. Of course, my wife wanted to award her children all of the same experiences. That would have been ok if it were balanced. I think a cocaine habit would have been more easily managed than my wife’s addiction to children’s activities, cheaper also. Spending countless hours at fields, in arenas and auditoriums may prepare a child for a competitive job market but priorities are lost. They never formed proper habits for everyday life. Things like care for their possessions and chores, or effective study habits were never instilled. I knew the choice at the time was either let it run its course or get a divorce. Our marriage has always been about the kids but now I’m worried about them. They have no fear of consequences because their mom rarely follows through. Every conversation that brings her parenting in to question turns venomous.

The kids just won’t do stuff for themselves. I know I’m to blame partially. I don’t think a divorce earlier on would have improved our situation. I wonder now though if I wasn’t here, would they finally start to mature? It is conflict that makes us stronger but they have been pampered to the point of negligence. I’m really at odds. I never wanted my life to turn out this way but I just hate being here. I don’t think it will be better elsewhere, but I wonder if the kids will learn to walk on their own better if I remove the crutch (me). I never really had a dad growing up and it made me completely independent. I wonder if me being here at this point is hurting them. Answers if you got some would be nice, thanks.

blue_ladybug · Sep 22, 2018

Ummmmm...

Divorcing isn't the answer to having them turn mature all of a sudden. They're spoiled, and they're lazy. And your wife is... not a good role model for how children are supposed to act responsibly. If they don't care for their possessions, take them away. Don't even mention you're taking them, just do it.. Tell them they can have them back when they start acting like responsible young adults and help with the chores and focus on getting good grades. If they don't help with chores, or start getting better grades, then throw out their possessions.

Of course, if they're THAT spoiled, they'll probably cry to mommy for new ones. :/ And being the enabler that she is, she'll buy them new possessions. Seems the problem here is HER, not you..

BibleStudent100 · Sep 22, 2018

As a high school teacher, I am very familiar with the type of family structure that you mention Hungry. I have colleagues and parents of students who are run ragged taking their children to just about every conceivable activity, from sporting events, to violin lessons, to recitals, to vacations, etc. While some of this is to be expected and even valued as a legitimate use of resources, including time, one could become so busy that spiritual pursuits are pushed to the wayside.

Timothy reminds us that balance should be used in all matters: “For physical training is beneficial for a little, but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and the life that is to come” (1 Timothy 4:8).

As Christians, we can gleam valuable insight in how to raise children by considering some examples from the Bible:
Abraham
As patriarchal head, Abraham allowed no idolatry or ungodliness in his household but constantly taught all his sons and servants to “keep Jehovah’s way to do righteousness and judgment.” (Ge 18:19)

Amram and Jochebed
Jochebed kept her child until he was weaned. This gave her many precious opportunities to teach him about the true God, Jehovah. Then Jochebed brought the child back to Pharaoh’s daughter, who named the boy Moses, meaning “saved out of water.”—Exodus 2:10.

David
“Come, you sons, listen to me,” wrote David. “The fear of Jehovah is what I shall teach you.” (Psalm 34:11) As a father, David was intent on passing on to his children a precious heritage—the genuine, balanced, wholesome fear of God. By words and by deeds, David portrayed God, not as a demanding and fearsome God, ready to pounce on any infraction of His laws, but as a loving, caring, and forgiving Father of His earthly children. “Missteps who can keep track of?” asked David. Then, indicating his confidence that Jehovah is not constantly scrutinizing our errors, he added: “Hold me clear of unnoticed things!” David was sure that if he put forth his best effort, his words and thoughts could be acceptable to Jehovah.—Psalm 19:12, 14, Byington.

Eunice and Lois
Eunice was not alone in her beliefs, however. It appears that Timothy received his instruction in “the holy writings” both from his mother and from his maternal grandmother, Lois. The apostle Paul exhorted Timothy: “Continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus.”—2 Timothy 3:14, 15.

More examples could of course be provided, but what is critical is that building strong moral and ethical codes should be instilled into our children so as to have strength of character. Qualities, like cleaning up after oneself, volunteering for household chores, showing kindness to others and doing volunteer work are critically important in developing future servants of God and good citizens.

I would suggest pursuing counseling through a pastor as your next step!

Hungry · Sep 22, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

They don’t care what you take away. Regardless their behaviour just gravitates back to laziness even if they did alter patterns temporarily. When they make changes for us, as soon as we quit nagging them, they stop. I want them to make the changes by their will taking ownership of their lives.

TamLynn · Sep 22, 2018

Hi Hungry

The book Boundaries would probably be helpful as you pray about how to handle this dilemma. There is also a Boundaries book for dealing with children. (Although your kids are older there may still be some useful and encouraging information in it).

MartinL65 · Sep 22, 2018

Dear Hungry, I think the people who replied so far and I, we perfectly understand your situation. I would like to listen to you and discuss the situation and I hope that we can help you.

According to what you write, these are the facts: your wife prioritizes the children‘s success as athlets up to a point where there is no time left for them to learn about responisbility. Your children are considerably off track and you are afraid that they will end up being unable to manage their lives. You are in deep sorrow because you care for them. You are even desperate. If you try to talk with your wife about parental responsibility, she becomes angry. Taking the childrens possessions away will not work. Mom will buy them new possessions and you will be the bad guy.

In your last reply you wrote „as soon as we quit nagging them, they stop“.This sounds like your wife supports you in regards to disciplinary measures. Does she sometimes support you and sometimes not?

I have a suggestion. Next time you want to talk with your wife about the situation, do not talk about the children and about parental responsibility. Put yourself in the focus. Explain to her that you are desperate and cannot cope with the situation. Do it in a way that she realizes that you do not blame her. You would simply talk about yourself and your sad feelings. As a solution you would sugggest that she and you go to a marriage counseling bureau. However, if both of you are christians, I would suggest that you go to your parish priest instead.

Let us know what you think. I am sure everybody here will be glad to go on talking with you. Do you want me to include you in my prayers?

God bless you.

Hungry · Sep 22, 2018

MartinL65 said:

You pretty much have it. I can’t seem to talk to her about anything that involves us both, in a negative manner. She knows how I feel and is prepared to go it alone if I am not not content. This isn’t her first choice but she has it in her head that she is always right and I’m just being difficult. Any criticism is unwelcome. I’ve managed to stay together for twenty years under these conditions but lately I’ve just been miserable and it effects the overall mood at home. Prayers are always welcome, thanks.

MartinL65 · Sep 22, 2018

Does your answer imply that there is definitely no point in suggesting to her that you should go to a priest or marriage counseler?

Dino246 · Sep 22, 2018

Hungry said:

I can relate to some of your situation. My ex's dad spent a lot of time taking her to sporting events, and otherwise spent lots of resources providing fun activities for her and her siblings (they weren't wealthy either). My parents didn't do that to anywhere near the same degree. This difference was one factor (of many) leading to a divorce.

The answer is, as TamLynn already noted, boundaries... with your wife and with the kids. You don't need to tolerate bad behaviour, and you don't need to enable it by not addressing it.

If I read the "venomous" comment correctly, your wife reacts violently to any suggestion that she's doing something wrong? That's her issue, not yours. Don't ingest her venom.

Make it clear to the family that there are certain requirements (and the reasons why they are valid), and that failure to meet said requirements results in clear, specific, and escalating consequences. Follow through with them, or you're wasting your effort.

mar09 · Sep 22, 2018

Hi hungry,
I read your post earlier and been thinking. Since you have adult child(ren), you may try talking with them to sort some things thru. When the kids where younger, i found it hard to reach them. But after a few yrs, i found the older children different, with a certain maturity, and they'd sometimes talk with their younger sibs. They seem to understand what their younger bros where going thru, and i think it matters that values, priorities and other matters sometimes are heard and learned from significant others and not just thru us, parents. Dont kids want to say, Our teacher says, etc. but when it comes from us, they seem to have heard too much of it and just ignore... when sometimes what we were saying are basically the same.

I wanted to add to this, but it is church prep. time. Your family and yours be in our prayers.

Solemateleft · Sep 22, 2018

Hungry,
I can relate and empathize with your situation in so many ways...
- I grew up with a single-widowed mom who raised 6 kids. I did not realize nor appreciate all that she did for all of us growing up... Yes, I and my siblings enjoyed the benefits of participating in seasonal local sports (no extravagant travel teams). While we were busy attending to grades, and athletics little did we know how much she was doing on the homefront that we didn't have to worry about... Were we spoiled, I don't know, I like to think that we were privileged (not in a financial way, but in a loving way) to learn via her example.
- In my kids case, my boys demonstrated elite prowess in 2 sports at young ages. In this case I was guilty of striving to ensure that my financial limitations were not the cause of them reaching their full potential (lots of fundraisers). My oldest was an olympic level prospect in his sport for 2016/2020, and was awarded an athletic scholarship his freshman year; while my youngest competed at the national level in three sports when he was 14; and is now being actively recruited for college athletic scholarships.

- Did it have an impact upon our marriage - YES. My wife was concerned that we were spending too much resources on their sports.
- Was I worried about the same things that you are regarding our kids - YES...
- My wife left, we've been separated for 1.5 years now, and I was just served with Divorce papers from her lawyer this week.
- My youngest son and I are now in counseling - for our personal struggles and stresses as a result of her departure...
- Both of our counselors (his and mine) assure me that he is still a kid thinking and acting like a kid (boys mature slower than girls), and that he will mature during young adulthood. I definitely matured during my later college age years, and it wasn't than until I really appreciated all that my mom had sacrificed for me as a kid.
- My daughter on the other hand is a rock star - as we do not have a worry in the world about my little girl... Grew up in the same house with the same rules...

Sacrificing your marriage is not the answer! I recommend you and your wife get both marriage counseling as well as parent counseling and/or signup for some co-parenting programs; I would also consider some financial advisor support.

Sometimes star caliber athletes with limited funding will be afforded a pseudos-scholarship to participate on a travel team. If the goal of the travel teams is merely for the experience rather than the potential for scholarship than I too would question the investment. In our case, the exposure resulted in the goal to earn athletic scholarships in order to mitigate the cost of college...

Your kids will mature in good time.
Your leaving does not solve any problems... If you need an outlet to get away find a hobby that can help you relieve some stress like, jogging, walking, hiking, gym, bingo or prayer groups...

I will pray for you and your family...
Good luck, and God Bless

tourist · Sep 22, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

Ummmmm...

Divorcing isn't the answer to having them turn mature all of a sudden. They're spoiled, and they're lazy. And your wife is... not a good role model for how children are supposed to act responsibly. If they don't care for their possessions, take them away. Don't even mention you're taking them, just do it.. Tell them they can have them back when they start acting like responsible young adults and help with the chores and focus on getting good grades. If they don't help with chores, or start getting better grades, then throw out their possessions.

Of course, if they're THAT spoiled, they'll probably cry to mommy for new ones. :/ And being the enabler that she is, she'll buy them new possessions. Seems the problem here is HER, not you..

Your estimation of this situation is right on target, per usual.

oldethennew · Sep 22, 2018

your both are equally 'guilty' of making your children a priority above, obviously above your marriage/unity -
in the beginning, if you could have gotten your hearts together, then your children would have had
a wonderful example to follow, as Christ is our Example, hence, when we put our own wills above His,
all hell will always break the ties that we 'thought would bind'...

heart-breaking and so very grievous...

prayers sent...

Lillywolf · Sep 22, 2018

Hungry said:

Dude, you're trying to give yourself a way out using the excuse it may be better for the kids you raised to the point you're really regretting how you raised them. And really, are you surprised?

You , just like every single parent alive, became their parents when they had kids.
Do this. If it feels right.

Do what you wonder about. No, not on paper. That can be $.

Take a break from the mess you've made. Yes, as a dad it takes two. But not always. All hail single parents!

But take that break you wonder about.
No kidding.
Leave your cell at the home.
Take the clothes on your back and cash, no CC.
Do what you wonder about but don't let your family accrue the debt.

Tell your lady you'll be doing this. Pick a window of time to find out if, "I'd like to....", as your post implies.
Because brother, woulda, coulda, shoulda, when you've had kids is nonsense. What is, IS! And this is the really funky part.
What IS is your DNA living forever. Those tiny chains of computer programming that let YOU , live for all time in the blood of your kids.
Now, what you got to come to grips with is what YOU as a role model in the flesh dad EXAMPLE TO your kids AS THAT!

Straight up, no kidding.
Knowing what it would mean for me right now? If I could go back in time to before I was conceived? And do something to change THAT?

I would not be talking to you right now.
Make a temporary plan and seriously consider what you think you want long time.
Because you are the role model for creating the future the rest of the world has to deal with. And of course your wife too. But since you're here, that observation pertains to you.

And hear this.
Don't think God will hate you for divorce.
My parents died hating each other. I'd literally give a day off my life right now, if I could insure and knowing what it means to me, she, who is typing this, that they'd never met!

I saw it.
I know what I tell you. My parents both died in Hospice. They died because the end was better than living still.
And I was in my 40's. So there was no excuse for, let's stay together, live,for the kid.
If you come to the end of your life even semi-cognizant, God forbid, as one who is suffering cancer and is under the influence of liquid morphine, as mom and dad were a year apart, and are able to realize, this is it.

You are done for. It is a matter of ticks on a clock you can't hear through that drug induce Narcotic haze, before you leave this life for all time.And there you lay.
Numb, vision blurry. Hearing through what seems like bundles of cotton the words of your family and friends mourning you before you're actually dead. Recalling the "good times" when Billie, my mom's name, was healthy and working with the hospital, and.....

And that trap door under your life lets you know it is there as it starts to slip.
And you feel pieces of yourself in tiny unconscious segments as one who is diagnosed irreversibly terminal, falls through a bit , a particle, at a time.....

What one and only life-time you have wasted!

Living up to other people's , and writings, expectations.

NO GOING BACK!

try what you're thinking. Take a walk. Respect your lady and let her know. But live your life without.

Without the wife. Without the kids.
Because as you do , they shall too also.

Look , God is everywhere.
If you leave and then choose to stay gone, do it with respect. First for yourself. So you don't die sobbing on sheets that lay beneath someone who lived for everyone else but herself.

If you don't want to be there and have the guts to face that, you'll free those who are able to live the life God wants for them too.

The reason people stay in dead marriages, as my parents did till the days they died nearly a year and a half apart? Is because they're so concerned about what is "thought" about not doing that so as to lose their own sense of self for the sake of the unseen them. Be it God, and "what will God think?" or, "What does God's word say about divorce?"
Well,think about what people said God said should be worthy of stoning to death in the OT. And if you have an opinion about Islam that to this day stones Muslims to death, put that into perspective as a new testament Christian.

Christ-like.
Jesus wasn't married.

And God forgives.
When you live your life, and I saw this for over 40 years in my family , for others at the end of your own you'll be happy to die.

OR , you can take a break and figure YOU out for the sake of everyone in your family.

God guide you.

Solemateleft · Sep 22, 2018

oldethennew said:

While I will respect your right to your opinion... In this case, if you were referring to my brief post, please forgive me, but I do have to take exception to both your haste and your judgement. I forgive you...
It was not my intention to steal focus from the OP...
The lord knows my heart, my efforts, my sacrifices and my unconditional love and herculean commitment to keep my marriage together at all cost for my family. I have acknowledged, owned, confessed and sought forgiveness for my role, my faults and my limitations. In the end, I learned that I can only control the things within my control and give the rest to the lord.
In sharing only a very small view into my marriage - I fear did not provide you a fair view into my soul, nor other contributing factors and variables at play in our marriage... as it pertains to other pre-existing vulnerabilities and struggles she was and continues to deal with since childhood...

oldethennew · Sep 23, 2018

Light-bulb moment, Sole, I was addressing Hungry!
hugs...

Solemateleft · Sep 23, 2018

Hungry, as a Christian man of God you must know that our lord wants you to be a spiritual leader on behalf of your wife, kids and marriage. It is never too late to find the resolve to reconcile your concerns and ensure your family role is aligned with your walk with our lord and can still lead toward the spiritual salvation for your entire family...

It is also important for you and your wife to come to grips with the realistic potential of your christian children's athletic future. Yes, there are extensive stories of Christian athletes (to include underprivileged) who have the lord to thank for their success (Tim Tebow and Nick Foles come to mind).

That being said, and it might be difficult for your wife to acknowledge, if your kids are not expecting to rely upon their athletic abilities to earn a college scholarship nor to become a professional athlete - than the reality of your assertion has merit...
If it is in fact just for the experience, and your family can not afford it - a financial advisor may serve useful to help nip your dilemma in the bud...

Christian Athletes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_Christian_Athletes

Famous Christian Athletes
https://www.fanawards.com/famous-christian-athletes-2016

Rio Olympians who put God before Gold
https://www.christianitytoday.com/c...et-rio-olympians-who-put-god-before-gold.html

Karraster · Sep 23, 2018

Hungry, we all fall short, not a single one of us does everything perfectly. You seem to know where you and your wife and your kids need to work on it. Every day is a new beginning, a fresh chance, don't let the devil rob you of the most precious gift aside from Christ, that a man can have.

I've heard it said, to be discouraged is one of the most effective weapon of the adversary against us. Do not be discouraged. Don't you know by now what a difference a day makes even? sometimes?

Hungry · Sep 23, 2018

Solemateleft said:

You might have missed the point. We have money for the activity. As far as scholarships go, I really don’t think either boy will excel academically. One has a shot at pro. The other semi pro but the point is when they are off the ice the fail to thrive. My wife and I are constantly at odds with their output. When the kids aren’t making excuses, she is. It leads to me being miserable and our home chaotic. The question was if I wasn’t there to be a crutch, would they stand on their own?

Solemateleft · Sep 23, 2018

Hungry said:

Yes, I do understand, and the added information does remind me of some similar issues and challenges that we struggled with as well...
Yes, your wife and kids will struggle with your departure and your decision to break-up the family unit - but like so many other broken families - they will do the best that they can with what they have... In the end they will stand on their own - albeit scared and never to be quite the same ever again...
For your personal quest for peace and happiness - just know that peace and happiness our your choice - they are not a new location. Good Luck and may God Bless your family.

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