WHO IS ENOCH AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN TO ME?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Simply incredible!!

This should now be classified as unbelief. If you don't believe Lazarus died, there is no reason you should believe Jesus Christ died as well. He probably just had 1 or 2 heartbeats a day for 3 days.

So many people are conditioned to openly receive the message and the ministry of the Antichrist. They are ignorant of the Word of God, but they are not ignorant of Satan's devices. One of the disadvantages of an online ministry is that many angels of light get to join anonymously and perpetuate the lies of the devil.

Those that are grounded in the truth of God's Word must stay busy offering the truth to combat the counterfeit. It is so hard to avoid 'doubtful disputations' because our flesh so much loves to argue. It is interesting that 'debate' is listed as one of the signs of a reprobate mind . . .

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them" (Romans 1:28-32).

 

[NayborBear]

Well, one can also make the case that Enoch did in fact die, which is more biblicaly accurate.

Jesus said no one has ascended up into “the Heaven” not even Enoch. Paul said Jesus is the only One to have immortality (I Timothy 6:16 which is an incorruptible, deathless body).

Enoch was translated to another place by faith and therefore was spared physical death at that time, he eventually died like we all do.

Notice in verse 13 the summary given of all of the men and women of faith listed here, including Enoch: “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth” (Hebrews 11:13). So Enoch definitely died as well as all the rest.

Isaiah 29
10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Not only does the last verse lend credence to the saying: "It is better to be golfing (or whatever), and thinking about God, then it is to be in Church, thinking about golfing (or whatever).

In a "wider" sense, this also esplains that which apparently was going on in the minds of those "men", that "pieced together", that which many today call the Holy Bible! That doesn't mean that what they did was bad, or wrong. No indeed! Yet? It does give rise to the "dark forces", that were "working" at that time, and how much of an influence they had in, or over those mens' minds! Not saying these ones' of the attempted overthrow, have given up on their "quest", either! They are just as hard at it these days, perhaps, even harder at it, as they are coming to the realization that "the shit, is about to hit the fan!"

Isaiah 29
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[UnderGrace]

Isaiah 29
10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Not only does the last verse lend credence to the saying: "It is better to be golfing (or whatever), and thinking about God, then it is to be in Church, thinking about golfing (or whatever).

In a "wider" sense, this also esplains that which apparently was going on in the minds of those "men", that "pieced together", that which many today call the Holy Bible! That doesn't mean that what they did was bad, or wrong. No indeed! Yet? It does give rise to the "dark forces", that were "working" at that time, and how much of an influence they had in, or over those mens' minds! Not saying these ones' of the attempted overthrow, have given up on their "quest", either! They are just as hard at it these days, perhaps, even harder at it, as they are coming to the realization that "the shit, is about to hit the fan!"

Isaiah 29
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

What does this have to do with the fact that Enoch died and Hebrews affirms that all the men spoken about in the context of the
passage died?



The Greek word in Hebrews 11 from which the phrase "was taken" is derived (the King James Bible uses the word "translated") is Strong's Concordance #G3346. This word, in the Greek, means to transport or transfer a person.

The gospel of John records for us Jesus' statement to Nicodemus that not a SINGLE person has gone to where God's throne exists except the Son of Man. The Lord told him, "no one has ascended into heaven, except He Who came down from heaven, even the Son of man, Who is in heaven" (John 3:13, HBFV)

The Lord, in His wisdom, decided to transport Enoch and Elijah away from where they were originally located so that someone (or something) would not be able to physically kill or murder them at that particular time. They did NOT go to heaven, but continued to live the SAME kind of fleshly existence we do after they moved until they died. This is in agreement with other scriptures that state ALL men must die a physical death (Hebrews 9:27).

That is the correct understanding of the scripture otherwise the very words of Christ Jesus are contradicted.

 

[UnderGrace]

@PennEd

You know instead of giving me X why don't you just reply with a counter argument backed by scripture, I am sure there the truth can be discovered.

 

[Dino246]

Thanks. I thinking of the introduction in Revelation 1:1 which sets the standard for interpreting in so much that not only did God inspire it but he also signified it as those who walk by faith not looking to that seen the temporal .

If we were to look for two literal bodies rather than embodiments of truth as God's witness we would be seeking after as sign and wonder .Christ said the last sign as a wonder was the sign of Jonas completed in Christ. God does not accept the witness of men

From whom "fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies" is the judgment of God's word as God's witness. The same with the power of God's word to shut off the sky. The breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet.

Feet in the bible represent the gospel

To kill the two prophets would be to make the word of God without effect.

When he comes will he find faith in respect to the law and the prophets as a way of defining the faith of God or a worn out religious book that has ben made to no effect through personal experience (dreams ,out of the body, near death, healings e.t.c )as a sign that a person is with God ? The new gospel.

Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well, one can also make the case that Enoch did in fact die, which is more biblicaly accurate.

I am surprised that you would come up with this rubbish. Had Enoch died -- as you suggest -- why would he have even been mentioned, and why would Scripture say he was translated?

Jesus said no one has ascended up into “the Heaven” not even Enoch....

People love to trot this verse out as though it contradicts the fact that both Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven. All it means is that the incarnation, resurrection, and ascension of Christ were totally unique, since it is "the Lord from Heaven" who came to earth and then ascended back. And here the Lord from Heaven calls Himself "the Son of Man".

Enoch was translated to another place by faith and therefore was spared physical death at that time, he eventually died like we all do.

This is PURE BALONEY and contradicts the Word of God. It is a dangerous thing to contradict God.

Now please note carefully what is actually stated in Hebrew 11:5:

King James Bible
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And just so that there is no misunderstanding:

Christian Standard Bible
By faith Enoch was taken away, and so he did not experience death. He was not to be found because God took him away. For before he was taken away, he was approved as one who pleased God.

 

[PennEd]

@PennEd

You know instead of giving me X why don't you just reply with a counter argument backed by scripture, I am sure there the truth can be discovered.

I disagree. You already know the Scriptures that say Enoch didn't die. You just don't believe them. So I'm left with just disagreeing with you. I want others to know that some people disagree with what you have said.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am surprised that you would come up with this rubbish. Had Enoch died -- as you suggest -- why would he have even been mentioned, and why would Scripture say he was translated?

People love to trot this verse out as though it contradicts the fact that both Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven. All it means is that the incarnation, resurrection, and ascension of Christ were totally unique, since it is "the Lord from Heaven" who came to earth and then ascended back. And here the Lord from Heaven calls Himself "the Son of Man".

This is PURE BALONEY and contradicts the Word of God. It is a dangerous thing to contradict God.

Now please note carefully what is actually stated in Hebrew 11:5:

King James Bible
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And just so that there is no misunderstanding:

Christian Standard Bible
By faith Enoch was taken away, and so he did not experience death. He was not to be found because God took him away. For before he was taken away, he was approved as one who pleased God.

Actually, I am surprised, baffled and incredulous that the plain facts of the passage are denied.

Genesis 5:24 is quoted in the New Testament, in its Septuagint form: “He was not found, because God transferred him” (Heb. 11:5). The writer prefaces the quotation with “Enoch was by faith transferred, in order not to see death” (Heb. 11:5). This chapter tells us what was accomplished by means of faith; and Enoch “by faith was transferred.” We are not told what this involved. If it meant relocation, we do not know the whereabouts. We are not told that he ascended “to heaven.” The mystery remains.

The purpose of his being “transferred” was “not to see death.” Again, there is no mention of heaven in that line so you are adding to the text.

In summary though......

It states it very clearly in Hebrews 13..

"These all died in the faith.....
The writer of Hebrews offered no exceptions!!!

This is a statement of fact not about the uniqueness of Christ otherwise the words would be "I am unique.......

The Lord told him, "no one has ascended into heaven, except He Who came down from heaven, even the Son of man, Who is in heaven" (John 3:13, HBFV)

As well,

Paul said Jesus is the only One to have immortality (I Timothy 6:16 which is an incorruptible, deathless body).

I am following scripture not some mythology that has gained acceptance by the mere force of time.

I will stay with what Jesus and the writer of Hebrews state very clearly

 

[UnderGrace]

I disagree. You already know the Scriptures that say Enoch didn't die. You just don't believe them. So I'm left with just disagreeing with you. I want others to know that some people disagree with what you have said.

I believe the whole counsel of God and the rest of the chapter of Hebrews where the author states they all died no exception is mentioned by the writer.

Thank you PennEd it has been a pleasure, I did not know this would rouse such emotion and offense.

I believe in dispassionate discourse even when it comes to Bible discussion.

 

[PennEd]

I believe the whole counsel of God and the rest of the chapter of Hebrews where the author states they all died no exception is mentioned by the writer.

Thank you PennEd it has been a pleasure, I did not know this would rouse such emotion and offense.

I believe in dispassionate discourse even when it comes to Bible discussion.

You're welcome. I recognize your right to be wrong! LOl

Next are you gonna say Elijah died as well? Even though the Bible says the exact opposite?

Also, When did Abraham rejoice to see Jesus' day? And while we're at it, was Moses and Enoch a figment of Peter james and John's imagination at the transfiguration like some believe?

 

[Locutus]

Doesn't mean too much to me.

A couple of lines of scripture leading to many arguments,

 

[UnderGrace]

You're welcome. I recognize your right to be wrong! LOl

Next are you gonna say Elijah died as well? Even though the Bible says the exact opposite?

Also, When did Abraham rejoice to see Jesus' day? And while we're at it, was Moses and Enoch a figment of Peter james and John's imagination at the transfiguration like some believe?

Well it would seem I have questioned some sacrosanct doctrine if I am interpreting your tone properly.

I only set forth that which I have researched and thought through, I have no real thoughts on the other events you have mentioned at this point in time.

 

[garee]

You're welcome. I recognize your right to be wrong! LOl

Next are you gonna say Elijah died as well? Even though the Bible says the exact opposite?

Also, When did Abraham rejoice to see Jesus' day? And while we're at it, was Moses and Enoch a figment of Peter james and John's imagination at the transfiguration like some believe?

Flesh and blood could never enter the kingdom of God. Actualy that vision used Moses and Elias. the law and the prophets or the whole word of God as the power or authority by which the Son of man Jesus came.

Enoch was not shown in a vision.

Not literal flesh and blood but the two witness that the Spirit of God uses to represent the power of His Spirit to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Same two witness in the book of Revelation .

Old Testament law mandated at least two witnesses to convict of a crime (Deut. 19:15)

The imagery also points back to a familiar Old Testament passage in which Zechariah sees two olive trees on the right and the left of a lampstand, which symbolize “the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth” (Zech. 4:14)

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord

Not the literal flesh and blood Elijah whose corruptible flesh that aged in a process of dying and returning to the dust from where it came from.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Catholicism whose very foundation is built on men "not dying" (no first death)is needed to maintain their necromancy doctrines in the keeping of what they call "patron saints" and the bible calls "workers with familiar spirits" as disembodied spirits. (3500 and rising available as the legion) This is when one is conjured up they all come and a idol image(teraphim) is needed to put a face on the one, that one is seeking after depending on the need or work. There is one or more for any need that can be imagined and again new ones are be added.

There is a newer animated Movie called "Coco" that helps promote necromancy, the Catholics cause.

 

[Karraster]

Colossians1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Oops. Looks like translated does not necessarily mean "left the earth".

 

[Karraster]

In case anyone is interested. Hard to refute this article. An excerpt:
A Letter Comes from Elijah!
Yes, after this wicked rule by the Jewish king, God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king!
The contents of the letter are found in II Chronicles 21:12-15. In part it reads: "Because thou hast not walked in the ways of. . . thy father . - . but hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel.. . and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself. . . thou shalt have great sickness by disease."
From the wording of the letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as future. Two years after the king became diseased the king died—having reigned only eight short years (II Chronicles 21:18-20).
This proves that the letter was written about ten years after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind.www.cgom.org/Publications/Booklets/Enoch_Elijah.htm

 

[UnderGrace]

In case anyone is interested. Hard to refute this article. An excerpt:
A Letter Comes from Elijah!
Yes, after this wicked rule by the Jewish king, God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king!
The contents of the letter are found in II Chronicles 21:12-15. In part it reads: "Because thou hast not walked in the ways of. . . thy father . - . but hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel.. . and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself. . . thou shalt have great sickness by disease."
From the wording of the letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as future. Two years after the king became diseased the king died—having reigned only eight short years (II Chronicles 21:18-20).
This proves that the letter was written about ten years after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind.www.cgom.org/Publications/Booklets/Enoch_Elijah.htm

Very helpful thank you, I think the scripture speak for themselves very clearly on this matter, I just wonder who started the rumor way back in the day?

 

[Karraster]

Very helpful thank you, I think the scripture speak for themselves very clearly on this matter, I just wonder who started the rumor way back in the day?

Scripture does interpret scripture. No telling about the rumors, I didn't know there were so many versions of the truth till I joined CC.

 

[UnderGrace]

Scripture does interpret scripture. No telling about the rumors, I didn't know there were so many versions of the truth till I joined CC.

Just having some fun on the rumours part.

 

[pottersclay]

Sorry, I forgot to address this in the last post. Cain and Abel knew what they did from instructions to Adam. God tutored Adam Himself. Like any good father, Adam passed God's instructions on to his descendants. Noah even knew of clean and unclean animals from Adam (see Gen. 7:2, 3). This is common sense stuff we should know already.

Your common sense stuff is speculation.....not to put you down but you cannot show one scripture to point to your conclusion.

Just my opinion but if we try to fill the gaps with common sense application we dont keep the word of God honest.
We just don't know or scripture doesn't tell us we assume it is like this will be the best explanation.

Case in point.......we have a holy all powerful, sinless loving God that we serve who's first covenant with the father of faith Abraham was done over a pagan traditional ritual. It doesn't seem to fit yet that is what scripture reveals.
Plus the fact that God honored that covenant.


And Noah did according to all that the Lord commanded him. That puts a hole in your conclusion does it not? It wasn't from Adam. God called the animals clean and unclean.

Cain and able offered up what is known as first fruits offering.....are you saying there might of been a verbal law before a written one.
I've pondered this myself.....sin brings the law in we know that but also we are created in God's image which might mean we have a need to worship someone or something.
Never mentions Adam or eve offering or sacrificing. Could it be that the Lord covered there sin and that was sufficient?

Now Cain and able were first born of fornication does that make it different??

As I said before so much to learn

 

[Hevosmies]

Jesus taught Matthew 24 to His disciples, right? Then later on He told them to go and teach that to all nations at the great commission. This was before Paul was called.

My point is that wouldn't it be strange if the disciples were out teaching false doctrine to gentiles about facing tribulation/seeing the abomination of desolation, only to be later corrected by a mystery revealed to Paul?

But I must also say in favor of the pre-trib view that Matthew 24 mentions SABBATH and JUDEA and AoD which are clues its for a jewish audience.