WHO IS ENOCH AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN TO ME?

[dcontroversal]

So by this example I guess Elijah equates to a split rapture after thousands of years.....

geesh.....

 

[Deade]

There isn't a verse stating such. It is a reasonable conclusion, but it is not stated. Proper interpretation depends on distinguishing between the two.

Hahahahahahahaha...

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

So by this example I guess Elijah equates to a split rapture after thousands of years.....

geesh.....

He is a type of CHRIST as Lord, as King, as the Lion, and as the Eagle. The word means "GOD is the Lord."

 

[Nehemiah6]

I suggested the oral traditions of the Catholic fathers use necromancy as their own foundation and not that the Bible was written by necromancers.

Strictly speaking necromancy is communication with the dead via mediums. An occult practice. The Early Church Fathers left their writings behind. Many of them are quite sound and edifying, but at the same time many have errors in them. But that is NOT necromancy.

In any event Enoch's translation (or Rapture) before the Flood is a type of the Rapture of the Church before God's final judgments. Just as Enoch did not see death, and God "took him", believers living at the time of the Rapture will not see death and Christ will take them out of this earth supernaturally.

As to the book of Enoch, there is no doubt that the quotation in Jude is from Enoch.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Jude-1-14/
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (KJB)

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. (Enoch , translated by R. H. Charles)

However, this book is not a part of the Hebrew canon. At the same time it does provide some insight into the angels "which kept not their first estate".

 

[Deade]

As to the book of Enoch, there is no doubt that the quotation in Jude is from Enoch.
...
However, this book is not a part of the Hebrew canon. At the same time it does provide some insight into the angels "which kept not their first estate".

So many of you have been led astray by the Book of Enoch, which gets into aliens and all kinds of fanciful fiction. Do you really believe the seventh from Adam has writings preserved until our day? I have a bridge to sell you.

As far as your obscure reference in Jude, we are warned to draw doctrine on one witness.

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

Matt. 18:16 "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

 

[UnderGrace]

Enoch was translate "that he should not see death' . . . yet, it is believed that he will see death eventually as one of the two witnesses . . .

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them" (Revelation 11:3-7).

from which they will soon be resurrected . . .

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them" (Revelation 11:8-12).

The translation of Enoch in Genesis 5 does not suggest or demand that Enoch went any where other than to Abraham's bosom. He was 'translated,' not brought back from the dead - so he could not be a first fruit.

Elijah also rose up into a chariot of fire - not heaven - he went to his fathers in paradise. He too will die in the future.

Well, one can also make the case that Enoch did in fact die, which is more biblicaly accurate.

Jesus said no one has ascended up into “the Heaven” not even Enoch. Paul said Jesus is the only One to have immortality (I Timothy 6:16 which is an incorruptible, deathless body).

Enoch was translated to another place by faith and therefore was spared physical death at that time, he eventually died like we all do.

Notice in verse 13 the summary given of all of the men and women of faith listed here, including Enoch: “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth” (Hebrews 11:13). So Enoch definitely died as well as all the rest.

 

[garee]

Can you please just answer the question and stop dancing?!!

Was he physically dead. His soul gone, his heart stop beating, no breathing, his body decaying, for 4 days. Yes or no?

Not dancing. No his soul was not gone. We can call it suspended animation (1 beat per day) or hibernation


No one was called back from the soul sleep in the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ . They are still dead asleep . The alarm clock .....wake up and receive your new bodies goes off on the last day.

 

[pottersclay]

All the names up to Noah mean and spell out the gospel.

Adam.......first man sin
Seth....so God set another
Enoch....then men began to call upon the name of the Lord
Meth.....his death shall bring
Noah....comfort and peace to his people.

It's been a while since I studied this I know I missed some names.

Enoch was a preacher possible Noah learned from him. The book of Enoch ive never read but I do believe he and Elijah will come back as the witnesses. Some say Moses but he died. Both Enoch and Elijah were taken up. Elijah is thought to be on Earth now hidden away.
I believe in one of the feast the jews
set a place for Elijah. I think it's Passover. And the children are to look for him out the window and door.
That is why in the new testament when Jesus ask who do they say I am Peter replied some say Elijah.
Strange how one was taken Enoch but one was left Noah...one walked with God the other was saved by grace but none were Jews.
Alot had transpired between gen 3 and gen 4 how did Cain and able know to give a offering??? Even Noah had this knowledge where did it come from?
So much to learn

 

[Dino246]

Not dancing. No his soul was not gone. We can call it suspended animation (1 beat per day) or hibernation

No one was called back from the soul sleep in the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ . They are still dead asleep . The alarm clock .....wake up and receive your new bodies goes off on the last day.

If your position is correct, then Lazarus was not brought back from the dead, there was no miracle, and Jesus is a sham because He mislead the people and lied to His disciples.

However, John 11: 13 says, "Now Jesus had spoken of his death," and in verse 14 Jesus says "plainly, 'Lazarus is dead".

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you really believe the seventh from Adam has writings preserved until our day?

Not until our day but at least until the time of the apostles. Jude was writing by divine inspiration so he did not make any factual mistakes.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Strange how one was taken Enoch but one was left Noah...one walked with God the other was saved by grace but none were Jews.

Nothing strange at all.

Noah was given the task of preaching to the ungodly world around him while he built the Ark. Noah would be the one to preserve the specific creatures which God wanted to preserve. Of course, the Jews would come much later, but the Hebrews would come from the line of Noah and Shem.

On the other hand, Enoch would become a type of the Church in that he would be translated.

This is just like the ministry of John the Baptist vs Christ. John may have ministered for less than a year, while Christ for about 3 1/2 years.

 

[Deade]

That is why in the new testament when Jesus ask who do they say I am Peter replied some say Elijah.
Strange how one was taken Enoch but one was left Noah...one walked with God the other was saved by grace but none were Jews.
Alot had transpired between gen 3 and gen 4 how did Cain and able know to give a offering??? Even Noah had this knowledge where did it come from?
So much to learn

The Elijah that is to come is not the physical man. The prophecy:

Mal. 4:5, 6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

The fulfillment:

Luke 1:11-17 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

So you see Elijah is a type of faith movement, and not a man per se.

 

[garee]

This is inconsistent with Revelation 11:5-12.

Why would that be if it is the mouth of prophecy ? Even the earth is said to open its mouth
Why would it not be the law and prophets the two witnesses of God coming from the mouth of God.

 

[garee]

When did the Roman Catholics subscribe to Sola Scriptura?

They don't deny its an authority. I am chatting with one who says its the Protestants that do not abide in it

 

[Deade]

Not until our day but at least until the time of the apostles. Jude was writing by divine inspiration so he did not make any factual mistakes.

Who is not to say that Enoch was written after the reference in Jude was recorded. It could have been done to make it appear truthful. I am sure Jude was passed information orally like the Jew's traditions. The Book of Enoch spreads falsehoods too wild to even be considered.

 

[Deade]

Alot had transpired between gen 3 and gen 4 how did Cain and able know to give a offering??? Even Noah had this knowledge where did it come from?
So much to learn

Sorry, I forgot to address this in the last post. Cain and Abel knew what they did from instructions to Adam. God tutored Adam Himself. Like any good father, Adam passed God's instructions on to his descendants. Noah even knew of clean and unclean animals from Adam (see Gen. 7:2, 3). This is common sense stuff we should know already.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

No one in the OT ascended up into heaven, though Elijah did ascend into the heavens. Both were in paradise until Jesus led captivity captive and they are now in a chamber under the throne of God awaiting the Tribulation.

All the names up to Noah mean and spell out the gospel.

Adam.......first man sin
Seth....so God set another
Enoch....then men began to call upon the name of the Lord
Meth.....his death shall bring
Noah....comfort and peace to his people.

It's been a while since I studied this I know I missed some names.

Enoch was a preacher possible Noah learned from him. The book of Enoch ive never read but I do believe he and Elijah will come back as the witnesses. Some say Moses but he died. Both Enoch and Elijah were taken up. Elijah is thought to be on Earth now hidden away.
I believe in one of the feast the jews
set a place for Elijah. I think it's Passover. And the children are to look for him out the window and door.
That is why in the new testament when Jesus ask who do they say I am Peter replied some say Elijah.
Strange how one was taken Enoch but one was left Noah...one walked with God the other was saved by grace but none were Jews.
Alot had transpired between gen 3 and gen 4 how did Cain and able know to give a offering??? Even Noah had this knowledge where did it come from?
So much to learn

I have the list somewhere . . . I'll post it if I find it. Wonderful post!

 

[Dino246]

Why would that be if it is the mouth of prophecy ? Even the earth is said to open its mouth
Why would it not be the law and prophets the two witnesses of God coming from the mouth of God.

The Law and the Prophets are not likely two...

- from whom "fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies" (Rev 11:5)
- who "have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying" (v.6)
- who "have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire" (v. 6)
- who are killed by "the beast that comes up out of the abyss" (v. 7)
- whose "dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city ... where also their Lord was crucified" (v. 8)
- who "tormented those who dwell on the earth" (v. 10)
- into whom "the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet" (v. 11)
- who "went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them" (v. 12)

These actions are those of humans or human-like creatures, subject to death and life. The two Covenants or the Law and the Prophets (writings, not people) just don't fit... even metaphorically. They don't have mouths, feet, bodies or desires, can't be killed or receive the breath of life, can't prophesy (as a verb!), etc.

 

[garee]

The Law and the Prophets are not likely two...

- from whom "fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies" (Rev 11:5)
- who "have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying" (v.6)
- who "have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire" (v. 6)
- who are killed by "the beast that comes up out of the abyss" (v. 7)
- whose "dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city ... where also their Lord was crucified" (v. 8)
- who "tormented those who dwell on the earth" (v. 10)
- into whom "the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet" (v. 11)
- who "went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them" (v. 12)

These actions are those of humans or human-like creatures, subject to death and life. The two Covenants or the Law and the Prophets (writings, not people) just don't fit... even metaphorically. They don't have mouths, feet, bodies or desires, can't be killed or receive the breath of life, can't prophesy (as a verb!), etc.

Thanks. I thinking of the introduction in Revelation 1:1 which sets the standard for interpreting in so much that not only did God inspire it but he also signified it as those who walk by faith not looking to that seen the temporal .

If we were to look for two literal bodies rather than embodiments of truth as God's witness we would be seeking after as sign and wonder .Christ said the last sign as a wonder was the sign of Jonas completed in Christ. God does not accept the witness of men

From whom "fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies" is the judgment of God's word as God's witness. The same with the power of God's word to shut off the sky. The breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet.

Feet in the bible represent the gospel

To kill the two prophets would be to make the word of God without effect.

When he comes will he find faith in respect to the law and the prophets as a way of defining the faith of God or a worn out religious book that has ben made to no effect through personal experience (dreams ,out of the body, near death, healings e.t.c )as a sign that a person is with God ? The new gospel.

 

[PennEd]

Not dancing. No his soul was not gone. We can call it suspended animation (1 beat per day) or hibernation


No one was called back from the soul sleep in the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ . They are still dead asleep . The alarm clock .....wake up and receive your new bodies goes off on the last day.

Simply incredible!!

This should now be classified as unbelief. If you don't believe Lazarus died, there is no reason you should believe Jesus Christ died as well. He probably just had 1 or 2 heartbeats a day for 3 days.