Is Christmas paganism?

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

LPT said:

THe Scriptures

and here are parallel verses:

Revelation 12:17 ►

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

New Living Translation
And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus. [18] Then the dragon took his stand on the shore beside the sea.

English Standard Version
Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Berean Study Bible
And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.

Berean Literal Bible
And the dragon was angry with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her children keeping the commandments of God and holding the testimony of Jesus. And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christian Standard Bible
So the dragon was furious with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep the commands of God and hold firmly to the testimony about Jesus. 18 The dragon stood on the sand of the sea.

Contemporary English Version
This made the dragon terribly angry with the woman. So it started a war against the rest of her children. They are the people who obey God and are faithful to what Jesus did and taught. 18 The dragon stood on the beach beside the sea.

LPT said:

I say generally because many accepted translation do not convey the intent and meaning of the original language in normal translation. WIth that said no translation is perfect IMO. Yeah I do get it about tthe AMP bible, some passages are translaed very well and descriptive and others are not. Like I said I prefer "mechanical translations" meaing rigid and bare, matching the original langue even if its hard to read.

LPT · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

No mikveh is not a OT Baptisim mikveh can be done over and over its Jewish ritual. mikveh is a ritual purification bath that is taken by observant Jews on certain occasions, as before marriage or after menstruation or childbirth, or when converting to Orthodox or Conservative Judaism.

LPT · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

THe Scriptures

and here are parallel verses:

Revelation 12:17 ►

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

New Living Translation
And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus. [18] Then the dragon took his stand on the shore beside the sea.

English Standard Version
Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Berean Study Bible
And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.

Berean Literal Bible
And the dragon was angry with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her children keeping the commandments of God and holding the testimony of Jesus. And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christian Standard Bible
So the dragon was furious with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep the commands of God and hold firmly to the testimony about Jesus. 18 The dragon stood on the sand of the sea.

Contemporary English Version
This made the dragon terribly angry with the woman. So it started a war against the rest of her children. They are the people who obey God and are faithful to what Jesus did and taught. 18 The dragon stood on the beach beside the sea.

I say generally because many accepted translation do not convey the intent and meaning of the original language in normal translation. WIth that said no translation is perfect IMO. Yeah I do get it about tthe AMP bible, some passages are translaed very well and descriptive and others are not. Like I said I prefer "mechanical translations" meaing rigid and bare, matching the original langue even if its hard to read.

So who does this verse below belong to that you posted earlier it doesn't match any above.

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

LPT said:

Different purpose same meaning, a cleansing by water. Also Judaisim is based in the Talmud not the Old Testaments.

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

LPT said:

LOL, it;s not translated using a letter that has only been around for 400 years?
Me saying Christmans is pagan really got you all worked up? It is, read the history about it rather than pick at me...

LPT · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

Difference all together my friend.

Shamah said:

At this point I could care less about what your saying about Christmas I have my eyes on what your doing with bible verses adding different words changing things leaving things off etc..

are you making a new bible? are you playing the king translator and going tell us what it means and says by changing and adding words it doesn't say. none say possessing the witness but you sure wanted it to IMO.

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

LPT said:

witness and testimony are the same.

have and posess are the same...

pick much?

Look up Jesus it is Iosus from Yeshua from Yahushua...

Look up Lord it is YHWH...

LPT · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

It's not about picking, you changed it to possessing the witness period.

You say it's based on Talmud does the Talmud have the NT in it?

Look up this, Yeshua Ben Yahwah

Lillywolf · Sep 19, 2018

Studyman said:

If the scriptures tell us something, should we not believe them? But what if this religion or that religion rejects these scriptures? Should we let them influence whether or not we believe?

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

There are some who believe the Christ is telling us to do something here. And the implication is, If I refuse to "DO" what He says, I am not accepted by Him.

Am I Hebrew Roots because I believe what the Christ says here over the preaching of others?

Rom. 11:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Again, if I believe in this scripture am I Hebrew Roots? Am I trying to "save myself"?

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Again, if I believe in these Word's of my Master, am I Hebrew Roots? Am I trying to save myself? And I promoting Salvation by my own works?

Maybe we should discuss the scriptures and have an honest discussion regarding their content outside of religious traditions and doctrines of men. Maybe through these "Biblical" discussion we might all learn something. . If you believe these scriptures do not tell us to "do" something, then make your case. If we can't come to an agreement, then move on. Wouldn't this way be a better way?

I have no case to make before you. I would not even attempt the pursuit. Because namely, you have quoted a post I made to Shamah who interestingly enough makes their defense claiming not to be HRM as you appear to here now. With added flare.

Lillywolf · Sep 19, 2018

ljs said:

My post didn't disagree with it. As you can read, it asked for clarification on your personal stated observation concerning FREEDOM PEOPLE.

If it is as simple as it gets, it should have been simply detailed in your prior remarks as you see freedom in Christ. Being Christianity is a relationship with God, ones personal beliefs about being free in Christ is germane to such a broad encompassing statement as the faith being about freedom.
Perhaps the reason people you've encountered presume it means freedom to do sinful things, that cannot be inferred from my question for clarification, is because for some that is so. Hence, the direct query as to how you see freedom.

ljs · Sep 19, 2018

Lillywolf said:

My post didn't disagree with it. As you can read, it asked for clarification on your personal stated observation concerning FREEDOM PEOPLE.

If it is as simple as it gets, it should have been simply detailed in your prior remarks as you see freedom in Christ. Being Christianity is a relationship with God, ones personal beliefs about being free in Christ is germane to such a broad encompassing statement as the faith being about freedom.
Perhaps the reason people you've encountered presume it means freedom to do sinful things, that cannot be inferred from my question for clarification, is because for some that is so. Hence, the direct query as to how you see freedom.

ok well now you know
blessings to you

Studyman · Sep 19, 2018

1ofthem said:

While I do agree with some of what you say....I guess, I am just gonna have to say I don't know for sure here and fall back on the if people can do it with a clear conscience then ok, but if not then don't do it.

My own opinion is that we should be acting like it is Christmas every day and be giving to others, remembering and honoring the birth, life, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus and witnessing to others. Not many people do that, and sad to say but some people won't listen even if you do, but sometimes Christmas will soften some sinners hearts and they are more apt to listen and hear the message of the Gospel.

I appreciate your honest and heartfelt response.

Lillywolf · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

I'm going to agree with the other member that you are HRM.

Someone who is absolutely not has the courage to state they are not.
And this would apply generally to anyone who is asked, or accused, of being something they are not when they are absolutely not what they are asked or accused of being.

You however assume a minors defense like unto a child who is afraid they've been caught doing something untoward. And when asked directly beat around the bush with deflections concerning direct questions to them that should be easily answered with the truth.
This is an analogy using me personally so as to communicate to you what you're doing here in these many posts where you deflect the query, are you Hebrew Roots, repeatedly rather than answer in the simple personal truth of yes, or no.

If someone asked me, "Are you gay? I think you are by what I've read of your posts. "
I would state categorically first thing, No. I am not only not gay but I have been married for a few years to the opposite sex.

Because I am not homosexual. And I am not ashamed to be presumed so in error due to someone misconstruing my posts. If I did not have the courage to face what is implied by the tenor of the querent who asks directly if I am gay, if I am indeed so, and due to personal concern regarding reprisal, judgment based on scripture concerning immoral sexuality, and while a member of a forum that upholds the Bible that condemns such sin, I would avoid answering truthfully and immediately. And I would make the questioner the target, or the one upon whom the onus of proof resides, by answering a question with a question.
Which is a first red flag in any situation of inquiry seeking a true answer and is an indicator the one questioned is lying or avoiding full detail of the facts asked for.
Which is why they answer a question seeking fact with a question that asks why the querent is seeking fact from them.
It's avoidance technique. It gives the fabricator time to think of a lie and avoid being asked for the truth. They're forumlating their truth. Which is something totally different.

The other tell in such behavior is when the one questioned repeats the question posed to them so that the querent repeats themselves. And that too is a means of allowing the questioned one time to think up an untruthful answer.
The techniques alluded to concerning query are characteristic of the technique to ascertain truth known by the acronym, NLP. Neuro-Linguistic Programming.

Face to face the practice is to observe the individual fully as they speak. On a forum that opportunity is not present. However, what someone writes, and the thread that runs through how they write and the repetitive tells in their writing, even if someone were faking their identity on any exclusive subject forum, like a religious one, a political one that is exclusively for instance Republican members only, emotion when the true mind language programming of the individual who's at the keyboard is pricked, the innate sense of self-preservation, even in that of personal opinion and or allegiance, responds.

Lillywolf · Sep 19, 2018

ljs said:

See how simple that was?

We don't have to get defensive and assume the worst just because we ask each other to clarify something and out of respect and for proper understanding of one another.
Blessings to you as well. And thank you.

Studyman · Sep 19, 2018

Lillywolf said:

I posted because of your statement, not Shamah's. Your misrepresentation of Him is between you and the Christ of the Bible.

My post was directed at you and your statements.

I posted scriptures from my Bible. Word's of my Savior, which suggests that we are to do something to stay saved. I could fill a Book with scriptures just like it.

So I brought these verses to light and asked if believing these Word's of my Savior, and His Servants, also makes me a HR member in your opinion.

Your answer was cleaver, yes. But you deflected from addressing the scriptures I posed. And further more, you implied that you would never even attempt to answer.

I can only assume you responded this way because to you, we are back of the bus kind of guys. Not worthy to be given even the smallest of courtesies. Like evidence to back accusations, or answer to questions.

That's OK. You are free to do as you please.

Praise the Word which became Flesh, who died, and is risen. Our High Priest forever.

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

Lillywolf said:

I'm going to agree with the other member that you are HRM.

Someone who is absolutely not has the courage to state they are not.
And this would apply generally to anyone who is asked, or accused, of being something they are not when they are absolutely not what they are asked or accused of being.

You however assume a minors defense like unto a child who is afraid they've been caught doing something untoward. And when asked directly beat around the bush with deflections concerning direct questions to them that should be easily answered with the truth.
This is an analogy using me personally so as to communicate to you what you're doing here in these many posts where you deflect the query, are you Hebrew Roots, repeatedly rather than answer in the simple personal truth of yes, or no.

If someone asked me, "Are you gay? I think you are by what I've read of your posts. "
I would state categorically first thing, No. I am not only not gay but I have been married for a few years to the opposite sex.

Because I am not homosexual. And I am not ashamed to be presumed so in error due to someone misconstruing my posts. If I did not have the courage to face what is implied by the tenor of the querent who asks directly if I am gay, if I am indeed so, and due to personal concern regarding reprisal, judgment based on scripture concerning immoral sexuality, and while a member of a forum that upholds the Bible that condemns such sin, I would avoid answering truthfully and immediately. And I would make the questioner the target, or the one upon whom the onus of proof resides, by answering a question with a question.
Which is a first red flag in any situation of inquiry seeking a true answer and is an indicator the one questioned is lying or avoiding full detail of the facts asked for.
Which is why they answer a question seeking fact with a question that asks why the querent is seeking fact from them.
It's avoidance technique. It gives the fabricator time to think of a lie and avoid being asked for the truth. They're forumlating their truth. Which is something totally different.

The other tell in such behavior is when the one questioned repeats the question posed to them so that the querent repeats themselves. And that too is a means of allowing the questioned one time to think up an untruthful answer.
The techniques alluded to concerning query are characteristic of the technique to ascertain truth known by the acronym, NLP. Neuro-Linguistic Programming.

Face to face the practice is to observe the individual fully as they speak. On a forum that opportunity is not present. However, what someone writes, and the thread that runs through how they write and the repetitive tells in their writing, even if someone were faking their identity on any exclusive subject forum, like a religious one, a political one that is exclusively for instance Republican members only, emotion when the true mind language programming of the individual who's at the keyboard is pricked, the innate sense of self-preservation, even in that of personal opinion and or allegiance, responds.

It's funny you jumped on me because of a false accusation another made, and told me it was my burdein to provide proof I did not say that... No the accuser has to show where I did say that. He can not because I did not say what he claims.

Ohh and this is for you:

Lillywolf said:

Shamah said:

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

StandTro said:

The Encyclopedia Britannica 1949, Christmas:

“CHRISTMAS (the 'Mass of Christ') --- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD) mentions several speculations on the date of Christ's birth, and condemns them as superstitious --- The exact day and year of Christ's birth have never been satisfactorily settled. When the Fathers of the Church in AD 340 decided upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day of the Winter Solstice, which was firmly fixed in the minds of the people, and which was their MOST IMPORTANT FESTIVAL.” (Meaning that the population had already been celebrating a winter festival that was not Christian)

Study history and religion and you will find all solar cults hold this day as special "the day of the Winter Solstice"

Studyman · Sep 19, 2018

Shamah said:

I know you are not HR or any other group Shamah. I love your posts and your insight, and encourage you to continue. There are many who see what is going on here.

I hope you are having a prosperous "Fast" today.

With His Love. SM.

Swan7 · Sep 19, 2018

I gotta say... there are some mighty twists and turns to this .... "discussion". What is the motive, I wonder... (Seriously, I am curious). Is it out of love that posts are made or is it out of rightness (as the Jews were about the law than God Himself - which is why Jesus was so harsh with them)?

Why are we fighting one another here? Is it a Salvation issue? We're supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ. Didn't Jesus warn us about such things if we continue down this kind of path?

Just a friendly warning before heading off this thread. <3
Good day and be joyous in the Lord!

Shamah · Sep 19, 2018

Studyman said:

Thank you and I also enjoy you brother! You know I remember the time when I was just learning the word and even before that, it has been an amazong journey and still is. Thanks be to Yah that we can know Him and He knows us! The Day of Atonement starts soon where I am, I am looking forward to it, I think im going to really get into the Word concerning the recompense YHWH pays to Mystery Babylon and those, it's not a pretty picture but it must be done, and praiseYah for His kingdom will reign!

This is going to be my studies summed up:

Revelation 18:4-8,4 And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. (Jer 51:6, Jer 51:9, Jer 51:45. Also see Jer 50:8, Jer 50:13, Jer 50:28) 5 “Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and Elohim has remembered her unrighteousnesses."6 “Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double."7 “As much as she esteemed herself and lived riotously, so much torture and grief give to her, because in her heart she says, ‘I sit as sovereigness, and I am not a widow, and I do not see mourning at all.’"8 “Because of this her plagues shall come in one day: death and mourning and scarcity of food. And she shall be burned up with fire, because יהוה Elohim who judges her is mighty."

Jeremiah 16:16-21,16 “See, I am sending for many fishermen,” declares יהוה, “and they shall fish them. And after that I shall send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks."17 “For My eyes are on all their ways; they have not been hidden from My face, nor has their crookedness been hidden from My eyes."18 “And first I shall repay double for their crookedness and their sin, because they have defiled My land with the dead bodies of their disgusting matters, and have filled My inheritance with their abominations.”"19 O יהוה, my strength and my stronghold and my refuge, in the day of distress the nations shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers have inherited only falsehood, futility, and there is no value in them.” (Psa 147:19, Isa 2:3, Isa 60:2-3, Joh 4:22) 20 Would a man make mighty ones for himself, which are not mighty ones?"21 “Therefore see, I am causing them to know, this time I cause them to know My hand and My might. And they shall know that My Name is יהוה!”

May Yah bless you!

Psalm 27:5, “For in the day of evil He hides me in His booth; In the covering of His Tent He hides me; On a rock He raises me up.”

Is Christmas paganism?

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