Not By Works

[calibob]

In case you were kidding, it's an ancient math device that uses sliding beads for calculations. That's all I know.

 

[benhur]

Saying you have faith in od, yet doing NOTHING he tells you, only goes to prove you never haed faith in God.

You can’t logically or sincerely sy you have faith in a person. Yet never do a thing they want, ask or suggest.

Thats why james said if we claim to have faith but never do what he says (works) our faith is dead. Lifeless. Non existant. A dead faith has never saved a person, is not saving anyone, and will never save anyone. Even demons believe, If they had faith in god they never would have left. They left because they did not trust God.

You have a point. Let me revise the example. I was baptized of the Holy Spirit, and have faith in Jesus and trust in Jesus and my new person and as so many in the bible start out on fire for Jesus, but then something happens and they start slowing down and eventually fall away or turn from the truth and back to their unrighteousness.

Do you know any born-again Christian who was very active in their new person, but is no longer serving Jesus, and in fact has fallen away? You can say, they never were saved in the beginning, or you can say they were saved, but lost their way and will lose their salvation unless they see their fall and repent and come back to Jesus. Either way OSAS is not a correct doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 1 is to "those who hold the TRUTH in unrighteousness". Romans 1:18

Paul says that "they are without excuse". Romans 1:19

Paul says "when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither thankful, but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened". Romans 1:20

Paul is denying that there is such a doctrine as OSAS. These people had the truth, but loved their imaginations and their foolish hearts were darkened. Were in the light (baptism of the spirit and saved) and then fell away and turned to darkness (lost their light and their salvation).

Dude, you need to study more. Paul says we all know od thats why we are without excuse. He is not talking about people who were saved and then did whatever you think they did to lose salvation.

His point is no one will have an excuse on judgment day, Not that eternal security is a lie.

 

[dcontroversal]

Dude, you need to study more. Paul says we all know od thats why we are without excuse. He is not talking about people who were saved and then did whatever you think they did to lose salvation.

His point is no one will have an excuse on judgment day, Not that eternal security is a lie.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Coming to realise that I do not know much given the above and the conversations for the last few pages.

I'm just gonna love people and walk with them in their endeavours to be like Jesus.

No offense meant to anyone above and over the last few pages.

I will research what has been discussed over the last few pages but to be honest I feel it has no bearing on salvation, no bearing in being set free in Jesus.

God bless you all in your endeavours.

It has no bearing on salvation bro! Which is why it should not get so heated. Yet it does. Which is sad.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a straw man......two different words with two different meanings and two different applications cannot be compared to your cited example because Jesus is one....Son of God and Son of man....and to be honest, i am surprised at the frivilous way you disregard thilipsis and orge.....not very honest really bro!

I gave an example. One of many.

Gods wrath causes great tribulation.

Its not to hard..

 

[dcontroversal]

You have a point. Let me revise the example. I was baptized of the Holy Spirit, and have faith in Jesus and trust in Jesus and my new person and as so many in the bible start out on fire for Jesus, but then something happens and they start slowing down and eventually fall away or turn from the truth and back to their unrighteousness.

Do you know any born-again Christian who was very active in their new person, but is no longer serving Jesus, and in fact has fallen away? You can say, they never were saved in the beginning, or you can say they were saved, but lost their way and will lose their salvation unless they see their fall and repent and come back to Jesus. Either way OSAS is not a correct doctrine.

Listen carefully...the bible does not teach a losable salvation......the gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE and Eternal/Everlasting does not equate to temporal based upon preformance or a lack thereof.....!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I fully agree there is peace 100% I just do not believe it is the 3.5 years pushed by the imminent returners....

Well if the covenant is made in the begining, and broken in the middle. Thats 3.5. Thats good enough for me..

 

[dcontroversal]

I gave an example. One of many.

Gods wrath causes great tribulation.

Its not to hard..

No....God's wrath decimates the planet and few men left when he gets done....nice try...no ceeegar hahahha

 

[dcontroversal]

Well if the covenant is made in the begining, and broken in the middle. Thats 3.5. Thats good enough for me..

Except for the fact that Daniel 12 states there are yet 1335 days left......not 2520...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have a point. Let me revise the example. I was baptized of the Holy Spirit, and have faith in Jesus and trust in Jesus and my new person and as so many in the bible start out on fire for Jesus, but then something happens and they start slowing down and eventually fall away or turn from the truth and back to their unrighteousness.

Do you know any born-again Christian who was very active in their new person, but is no longer serving Jesus, and in fact has fallen away? You can say, they never were saved in the beginning, or you can say they were saved, but lost their way and will lose their salvation unless they see their fall and repent and come back to Jesus. Either way OSAS is not a correct doctrine.

I fell away for 5 years.

I never lost salvation

I was chastened by God for 5 years

His chastening returned me to God, because I had no place else to run.

Because God does NOT let his people go. As he promised, he leaves the whole flock to go go after the sheep that walks away.

I have faith in God.. You evidently do not.. And for that I am sorry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No....God's wrath decimates the planet and few men left when he gets done....nice try...no ceeegar hahahha

Lol. Well lets see, Jesus returns to STOP the wars which have brough human life to the threat of extinction. Which of course happens during the great tribulation.

 

[calibob]

You have a point. Let me revise the example. I was baptized of the Holy Spirit, and have faith in Jesus and trust in Jesus and my new person and as so many in the bible start out on fire for Jesus, but then something happens and they start slowing down and eventually fall away or turn from the truth and back to their unrighteousness.

Do you know any born-again Christian who was very active in their new person, but is no longer serving Jesus, and in fact has fallen away? You can say, they never were saved in the beginning, or you can say they were saved, but lost their way and will lose their salvation unless they see their fall and repent and come back to Jesus. Either way OSAS is not a correct doctrine.

Being new in the Lord is the honeymoon period, after the infatuation simmers the lusts return and so do the old ways. After Peter denied the Lord he hid in an upper room. Jesus told Mary Magdaline, directly "Go tell the Apostles and Peter... He didn't tell Peter depart from me I never knew you. That's for fakes.

 

[benhur]

Then one would have to question whether in fact you have true saving faith and trust in the Lord who died and rose again you.

Is God going to baptise someone of/into the Holy Spirit knowing full well that all they are going to sit on their arse and do nothing?

I think not.

He knows those who want a get out jail free card, a free lunch.
God knows who are genuine and those who are not.

That is why he said

Matthew 13:23
23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

Matthew 13:27-30
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Ps I have asked you many many times and can't ever recall a response (which I said the last few times I have asked)

So what do you mean by being baptised of the Holy Spirit and what does it entail?
I have got from other posts of yours is that it's essential to salvation. Am I getting you wrong?

Last time I will ask.

To me it is essential to salvation to be baptized of the Holy Spirit ( remember your experience as you were baptized of the Holy Spirit to know the details) and baptized of full immersion in water. Then once this is done, you work for the KOG until the end. If you start out on fire, and are saved, but then something happens and you fall away or turn away from Jesus, you will lose your salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Except for the fact that Daniel 12 states there are yet 1335 days left......not 2520...........

Daniel said in the middle of the week will be th abomination, jesus said it wil be followed by tribulation, so severe he will have to return or all flesh would die. Part of Gods wrath is removing his protective hand and allowing satan to run rampant..

 

[benhur]

Being new in the Lord is the honeymoon period, after the infatuation simmers the lusts return and so do the old ways. After Peter denied the Lord he hid in an upper room. Jesus told Mary Magdaline, directly "Go tell the Apostles and Peter... He didn't tell Peter depart from me I never knew you. That's for fakes.

Peter is a good example of a person that turned and denied Jesus, but did repent and make his way back. Jesus fully forgave him of his misstep, and Peter died with honor in Jesus. How many Peter types do you know. How many others do you know that have never returned, have never repented, and will never come back, and will lose what they had, salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter is a good example of a person that turned and denied Jesus, but did repent and make his way back. Jesus fully forgave him of his misstep, and Peter died with honor in Jesus. How many Peter types do you know. How many others do you know that have never returned, have never repented, and will never come back, and will lose what they had, salvation.

When did peter repent or ask jesus for forgiveness?

 

[calibob]

Peter is a good example of a person that turned and denied Jesus, but did repent and make his way back. Jesus fully forgave him of his misstep, and Peter died with honor in Jesus. How many Peter types do you know. How many others do you know that have never returned, have never repented, and will never come back, and will lose what they had, salvation.

or did they realy have it? Peter couldn't lose salvation because he never had any before the crucifixion.

 

[calibob]

or did they realy have it? Peter couldn't lose salvation because he never had any before the crucifixion.

Our souls were paid for in blood on the cross.

 

[benhur]

Benher, you have been coming here to a conservative Christian forum since last February, spouting off how Christians who are, "saved by grace through faith - not by works lest no one can boast", are looking for a free pass to the Kingdom of God. Stop this insult to all of Christianity; no one who is a True Believer in Christ sits around doing nothing. Again and again I have asked you politely and you refuse to answer;

Benher, what Church are you affiliated with everybody would like to know.

We are saved to do good works we are not saved by our good works.

Epheasians2:8
8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9) not by works, so that no one can boast. 10) For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I do see your point. So I will change my example. How many Christians do you know that said they were baptized of the Spirit and have been saved, and were on fire for a while in Jesus. But then something happened and they lost their love for Jesus and turned from him? How many Christians do you know that have done this?

The question is: were they never saved in the first place, or were they saved and then lost their salvation?

I have known some powerful Christian youth, who in their youth were on fire for Jesus, but now at the age of 60, are no longer Christians. We were baptized of the Holy Spirit and we were new persons for Jesus and we trusted in Jesus and we were saved by Jesus, but now many of those youth are no longer Christians, and so it makes me wonder, were they never saved in the beginning or have they lost their way, and lost their salvation. My best answer is that they lost their way and have lost their salvation. My bible study tells me this happened in the bible, the bible warns not to get lost, and how to repent and get back, and so I believe OSAS is not a true doctrine.