Not By Works

[BillG]

OK, I get baptized of the HS, and I trust in the Lord and have faith in Jesus, and I have a new person in the Lord, but I do nothing that the Lord tells me to do and I ignore the promptings of the HS, but I will still be saved. Makes very little sense. I can not believe it.

Then one would have to question whether in fact you have true saving faith and trust in the Lord who died and rose again you.

Is God going to baptise someone of/into the Holy Spirit knowing full well that all they are going to sit on their arse and do nothing?

I think not.

He knows those who want a get out jail free card, a free lunch.
God knows who are genuine and those who are not.

That is why he said

Matthew 13:23
23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

Matthew 13:27-30
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Ps I have asked you many many times and can't ever recall a response (which I said the last few times I have asked)

So what do you mean by being baptised of the Holy Spirit and what does it entail?
I have got from other posts of yours is that it's essential to salvation. Am I getting you wrong?

Last time I will ask.

 

[BillG]

I believe can not live in sin in the 'holy of holies' which is his spirit, where God dwells. But he can certainly live in sin in the flesh. Seems like a rather meaningless disagreement.

Don't quite understand what you are saying here.

Can you make is simple for a simple fella like me please

 

[BillG]

You NEED to be BORN AGAIN FIRST. That involves NOTHING of laboring to TRY to earn favors from HIM, it is instead, "I GIVE UP LORD, you come into my heart and change whatever you want to, out of LOVE FOR YOU, I want you to run my life."

Amen VCO

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Christians are sheep, not pigs. Pigs love to wallow in the mud . . . when a sheep gets dirty he bleats his head off. I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin - but I do believe a Christian can fall into sin - but God won't let him stay in it or He will kill him. God would rather call a saint home than allow him to destroy his testimony beyond a point. Losing one's life in this situation is not losing one's salvation.

This is what Paul is referring to in I Corinthians 11 where he says "some of you sleep."

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Don't quite understand what you are saying here.

Can you make is simple for a simple fella like me please

Man consists of body, soul and spirit. The spirit is dead until God gives it life at the new birth. We talk about Jesus living in our heart, but more correctly Jesus is living in our spirit which is akin to the holy of holies in the temple. That special place where God dwelt and no man could enter in under penalty of death. Only the consecrated high priest could enter within. Jesus is our High Priest. Nothing can, nor ever will, darken our spirit. No sin can pierce it. Sin can only exist in our body and in our souls.

This is what John is speaking of when he says that "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not" . . .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Man consists of body, soul and spirit. The spirit is dead until God gives it life at the new birth. We talk about Jesus living in our heart, but more correctly Jesus is living in our spirit which is akin to the holy of holies in the temple. That special place where God dwelt and no man could enter in under penalty of death. Only the consecrated high priest could enter within. Jesus is our High Priest. Nothing can, nor ever will, darken our spirit. No sin can pierce it. Sin can only exist in our body and in our souls.

This is what John is speaking of when he says that "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not" . . .

I disagree, John is stating a fact. Whoever is born of God can not live in habitual, ongoing sin. And John is correct. A Child of God can not live as the world and continue in it, Even the prodigal son was taken to his knees so he had to return. God chastens those who are his.

 

[BillG]

1 John 1 says we can not be perfect. 1 John 3 says we can not live in sin. A believer will change.. if he has not changed, and still lives in sin, Is that person really saved?

I know you and BBB are talking about this.

1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Study notes to the above

3:8 Satan’s sinful nature is shown through the lives of those who belong to him. Jesus’ purpose in coming was to destroy the devil’s works. A person who sins, even a believer, is of the devil in the sense that he is participating in the devil’s activity (2:19). Thus John is indicating that it is possible for believers to do that which is of the devil (see Mark 8:31–33; James 3:6).
3:9 The seed that remains is probably the divine nature in which believers can participate (see 2 Pet. 1:4). But the seed has been variously interpreted as Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Scripture, or the gospel message. In other words, this verse is saying that habitual sin is not consistent with the Christian walk.

I have bolded the above for a reason and that reason is from my personal experiences and I'm sure you are aware of it but BBB is as well as those on hear who don't know me.

One of my experiences being a severe gambling problem.
This is not an issue as to whether gambling is right or wrong.
But at my level it certainly was, I'm talking big money to the average man.
At times I was gambling without realising I was.

I hated it with a passion, I implored, cried out for 20 odd years please help me.
I even got to state of contemplating suicide, made plans.

Tried it once, but when it came to turning the steering wheel of my car at high speed on an empty motorway it didn't happen.

Then I resorted to asking God "Please kill me, I know you will take care of my wife and 4 kids, at least I know where I will end up"

I honestly felt I was living hell on earth.

Needless to say, I didn't Kill myself, God didn't kill me cause I'm still here.
He eventually worked good in all things that further conformed me to image of Jesus.

God dealt with the cause of the effect.
Yet the fact remains for all those years I was sinning, but God bought someone my way.

So what would you BBB and others say with reference to the verses in John?
Continuous sin pattern, one I hated.
Let's say you never knew me but knew I was gambling?
What would you all think and do?
Was I saved was I not?
Did I not give two hoots or did I give two hoots?

 

[BillG]

Man consists of body, soul and spirit. The spirit is dead until God gives it life at the new birth. We talk about Jesus living in our heart, but more correctly Jesus is living in our spirit which is akin to the holy of holies in the temple. That special place where God dwelt and no man could enter in under penalty of death. Only the consecrated high priest could enter within. Jesus is our High Priest. Nothing can, nor ever will, darken our spirit. No sin can pierce it. Sin can only exist in our body and in our souls.

This is what John is speaking of when he says that "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not" . . .

Is our soul our mind?
So is it I have the spirit of Jesus in me and therefore my spirit cannot sin, like Jesus.
but my soul still has propsetity to sin and when I do it manifests in the flesh?
Therefore it's not my spirit sinning but if I sin it's covered?

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I disagree, John is stating a fact. Whoever is born of God can not live in habitual, ongoing sin. And John is correct. A Child of God can not live as the world and continue in it, Even the prodigal son was taken to his knees so he had to return. God chastens those who are his.

And some do agree. I'm being asked questions and I'm answering them as honestly and as biblically as I can. "Let every man be persuaded in his own mind."

The waters can get murky when discussing the meat of the Word. Not every can handle it.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Is our soul our mind?
So is it I have the spirit of Jesus in me and therefore my spirit cannot sin, like Jesus.
but my soul still has propsetity to sin and when I do it manifests in the flesh?
Therefore it's not my spirit sinning but if I sin it's covered?

Our body is that part of us that deals with the world and harmonizes with nature.
The soul is our individuality and deals with wants and desires . . . clings to the things of the world's system.
The spirit, when made alive, is that part of us that communicates with God and dwells on heavenly things.

Our mind is likely more soulish while the brain is part of the body. So the soul acts on what our mind thinks it wants and convinces us that it is good (even when bad).

The body of our flesh will be destroyed - the soul along with it. The only thing that will survive to enter glory is that spirit wherein God dwells where it will be joined to a new body for all eternity.

And all for the absolute price of nothing! Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe. Sin has left a crimson stain . . . He washed it white as snow.

 

[TruthTalk]

OK, I get baptized of the HS, and I trust in the Lord and have faith in Jesus, and I have a new person in the Lord, but I do nothing that the Lord tells me to do and I ignore the promptings of the HS, but I will still be saved. Makes very little sense. I can not believe it.

Benher, you have been coming here to a conservative Christian forum since last February, spouting off how Christians who are, "saved by grace through faith - not by works lest no one can boast", are looking for a free pass to the Kingdom of God. Stop this insult to all of Christianity; no one who is a True Believer in Christ sits around doing nothing. Again and again I have asked you politely and you refuse to answer;

Benher, what Church are you affiliated with everybody would like to know.

We are saved to do good works we are not saved by our good works.

Epheasians2:8
8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9) not by works, so that no one can boast. 10) For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know you and BBB are talking about this.

1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Study notes to the above

3:8 Satan’s sinful nature is shown through the lives of those who belong to him. Jesus’ purpose in coming was to destroy the devil’s works. A person who sins, even a believer, is of the devil in the sense that he is participating in the devil’s activity (2:19). Thus John is indicating that it is possible for believers to do that which is of the devil (see Mark 8:31–33; James 3:6).
3:9 The seed that remains is probably the divine nature in which believers can participate (see 2 Pet. 1:4). But the seed has been variously interpreted as Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Scripture, or the gospel message. In other words, this verse is saying that habitual sin is not consistent with the Christian walk.

I have bolded the above for a reason and that reason is from my personal experiences and I'm sure you are aware of it but BBB is as well as those on hear who don't know me.

One of my experiences being a severe gambling problem.
This is not an issue as to whether gambling is right or wrong.
But at my level it certainly was, I'm talking big money to the average man.
At times I was gambling without realising I was.

I hated it with a passion, I implored, cried out for 20 odd years please help me.
I even got to state of contemplating suicide, made plans.

Tried it once, but when it came to turning the steering wheel of my car at high speed on an empty motorway it didn't happen.

Then I resorted to asking God "Please kill me, I know you will take care of my wife and 4 kids, at least I know where I will end up"

I honestly felt I was living hell on earth.

Needless to say, I didn't Kill myself, God didn't kill me cause I'm still here.
He eventually worked good in all things that further conformed me to image of Jesus.

God dealt with the cause of the effect.
Yet the fact remains for all those years I was sinning, but God bought someone my way.

So what would you BBB and others say with reference to the verses in John?
Continuous sin pattern, one I hated.
Let's say you never knew me but knew I was gambling?
What would you all think and do?
Was I saved was I not?
Did I not give two hoots or did I give two hoots?

Will just say this bro, Having a gambling issue (what many call a bessetting sin) and living in sin are not the same thing.

The world lives in sin because it is all they know. A christian can not live in sin, A christian may not change 100% and stop all sin (perfection) but they will not live in sin as they did when they were a bliever.

We all have bessetting sins whether we admit it, confess it or not. Even paul had a bessetting sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is our soul our mind?
So is it I have the spirit of Jesus in me and therefore my spirit cannot sin, like Jesus.
but my soul still has propsetity to sin and when I do it manifests in the flesh?
Therefore it's not my spirit sinning but if I sin it's covered?

Amen, As paul said in romans 7, His flesh lusts agains tthe spirit and the spirit against the flesh. Our flesh has no power over us, as it can be resisted (unlike before when we could not resist it) but it is still there as long as we live.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And some do agree. I'm being asked questions and I'm answering them as honestly and as biblically as I can. "Let every man be persuaded in his own mind."

The waters can get murky when discussing the meat of the Word. Not every can handle it.

We have to be open. Open to the fact we may be wrong. If we are offended because someone disagrees with us, we react, and usually end up misunderstanding the person who is talking to us. And can miss out on some very sincere and maningful growth

In 1 John 3, John is not saying we will never sin again, he is saying we can not live in ongoing habitual sin, the word sin here is a noun, it is also singular. It is not talking about induvidual personal sins, it is talking about the sin life of a non believer. Or living every moment of every day in sin. Or serving our flesh..

 

[BillG]

Will just say this bro, Having a gambling issue (what many call a bessetting sin) and living in sin are not the same thing.

The world lives in sin because it is all they know. A christian can not live in sin, A christian may not change 100% and stop all sin (perfection) but they will not live in sin as they did when they were a bliever.

We all have bessetting sins whether we admit it, confess it or not. Even paul had a bessetting sin.

What's a bessetting sin?

 

[BillG]

Amen, As paul said in romans 7, His flesh lusts agains tthe spirit and the spirit against the flesh. Our flesh has no power over us, as it can be resisted (unlike before when we could not resist it) but it is still there as long as we live.

I'm not sure I'm ever gonna get Romans 7.
I've researched, asked many questions of many people and it still does my head in.

Part of me when I meet Jesus wants to ask him.
What on earth is Romans 7 about?

My guess is that he will say "Not relevant now, we are going to spend eternity together"

 

[BillG]

Will just say this bro, Having a gambling issue (what many call a bessetting sin) and living in sin are not the same thing.

The world lives in sin because it is all they know. A christian can not live in sin, A christian may not change 100% and stop all sin (perfection) but they will not live in sin as they did when they were a bliever.

We all have bessetting sins whether we admit it, confess it or not. Even paul had a bessetting sin.

God bless you brother.
I have loved getting to know you.
I truly appreciate you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What's a bessetting sin?

It is a sin we struggle with, a constant temptation that does not go away. A habit. Or addiction.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God bless you brother.
I have loved getting to know you.
I truly appreciate you.

As I have you bro

 

[justpassinthrough]

Christians are sheep, not pigs. Pigs love to wallow in the mud . . . when a sheep gets dirty he bleats his head off. I do not believe a Christian can continue in sin - but I do believe a Christian can fall into sin

Do you believe sheep who become lost need salvation?