Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

I agree with almost everting you said but the woks=salvation folks who come here wont and if they had the faith to come to the lord they won't be damned for their mistaken beliefs. Once saved always saved over rules bad doctrine.

Hi Calibob, you are correct someone who tries to work their way to heaven will disagree. And OSAS is not a doctrine of the Church, however, the Eternal Security of the Believer is supported by the bible and a doctrine of the Church.

But of course they will throw out the many verses that support, Eternal Security of the Believer, which is a rock solid doctrine of the Church,

John6:39,40
39) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40) For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can post matthew 24 a million times out of context to push a lie all you want and it will not change the fact that it is not about salvation...your dogma is false pal!

They love to take verses out of context. They refuse to realise MEN added verse breaks and chapter breaks. Not God. Sadly, while it helps many study the word. it has given others an easy way to misinterpret the word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I truly believe that when we stand before God to be judged, that He will give us one last chance to repent and come to Him. He wouldn't be a just and fair God if He didn't allow us that courtesy...

I disagree, if this was true, no one would not repent. When you see him as he is You will know.

 

[Shamah]

Matthew 10:37-39, “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 “And he who does not take up his stake and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 “He who has found his life shall lose it, and he that has lost his life for My sake shall find it.”

 

[BillG]

I don't want to derail Dcon's thread but, we ARE ALL going to die with some unrepented sin. All of us. I don't pay attention to New Age stuff, but it seems to me that God wouldn't be a just God if He didn't allow one last opportunity to repent. Who's to say that when He judges us, He won't first say "(enter name here), do you repent of all your sin"? I highly doubt that people who are murdered, killed in accidents, die in their sleep, etc etc, won't be given an opportunity to confess and repent their sins before being judged.

If and I believe they are, given that our sins past present and future are forgiven when placing genuine faith in Jesus then God does not have to ask us to repent of unrepentant sin.

Sins were judged on the cross.
We will be judged according to the works we have done and not done.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Hi BaptistBibleBeliever, I'm very happy to see you were able to post your website.

http://baptistbiblebelievers.com/Home.aspx

God bless!

Amen! and hope that it doesn't disappear . . . I took pains to show that it isn't a chat room but a straight-up library.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't want to derail Dcon's thread but, we ARE ALL going to die with some unrepented sin. All of us. I don't pay attention to New Age stuff, but it seems to me that God wouldn't be a just God if He didn't allow one last opportunity to repent. Who's to say that when He judges us, He won't first say "(enter name here), do you repent of all your sin"? I highly doubt that people who are murdered, killed in accidents, die in their sleep, etc etc, won't be given an opportunity to confess and repent their sins before being judged.

You live with unreprentant sin right now. If repenting from every personal sin we commit is required for salvation, No one will get to heaven sis.

We repent of being sinful. We may not even know every sin that we can commit.. remember the law.. because the day of atonement not only took care of known sin, it took care of unknown sin. All sin was forgiven, this is true of the cross. All sin is forgiven. Forever. All it takes is our faith in Christ.

 

[calibob]

Hi Calibob, you are correct someone who tries to work their way to heaven will disagree. And OSAS is not a doctrine of the Church, however, the Eternal Security of the Believer is supported by the bible and a doctrine of the Church.

But of course they will throw out the many verses that support, Eternal Security of the Believer, which is a rock solid doctrine of the Church,

John6:39,40
39) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40) For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

I might agree if the church was one. Sorry it's not, yet. OSAS is more an abbreviation for Eternal security of the believer than a straight and narrow path it more or less counter saved by faith through works which I disagree with 66%. I believe, saved by grace through faith. Buddhist, Hindus, Spiritualists all have faith, in nothing. It was grace from the beginning not after faith so I'm not a part of that quarrel.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I might agree if the church was one. Sorry it's not, yet. OSAS is more an abbreviation for Eternal security of the believer than a straight and narrow path it more or less counter saved by faith through works which I disagree with 66%. I believe, saved by grace through faith. Buddhist, Hindus, Spiritualists all have faith, in nothing. It was grace from the beginning not after faith so I'm not a part of that quarrel.

Even the devil 'believes' . . .

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).

 

[ljs]

If and I believe they are, given that our sins past present and future are forgiven when placing genuine faith in Jesus then God does not have to ask us to repent of unrepentant sin.

Sins were judged on the cross.
We will be judged according to the works we have done and not done.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Amen Bill !

 

[Jewel5712]

Although I disagree we need to tithe. I think we are called. Not only in this age, but more in the tribulation age, To give, To be selfless, and to putthe needs of others above our own needs.. The world needs us, they need us more and more the close the end comes..

Lol..(shaking head)...

 

[VCO]

Hi Calibob, you are correct someone who tries to work their way to heaven will disagree. And OSAS is not a doctrine of the Church, however, the Eternal Security of the Believer is supported by the bible and a doctrine of the Church.

But of course they will throw out the many verses that support, Eternal Security of the Believer, which is a rock solid doctrine of the Church,

John6:39,40
39) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40) For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Okay TT, try to explain the DIFFERENCE ? ? ?

I think they are the TWO NAMES FOR THE EXACT SAME THING,
TWO NAMES for the SAME BIBLICAL THEOLOGY.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!

No one will snatch them out of My hand.

 

[calibob]

Lol..(shaking head)...

eternally grateful need a comma somewhere to make that a complete sentence beause of the way it was written it could be taken two ways so its neither wrong nor correct. Example; I disagree, we need to tithe vs I disagree we need to tithe, two opposite meanings. Same words.

 

[TruthTalk]

Okay TT, try to explain the DIFFERENCE ? ? ?

I think they are the TWO NAMES FOR THE EXACT SAME THING,
TWO NAMES for the SAME BIBLICAL THEOLOGY.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!

No one will snatch them out of My hand.

They do have the same idea OSAS is always used by those who do not believe in the security of the believer and they believe you can lose your eternal salvation. OSAS is always used in a negative view with no bible verse to back up there unbelief. The Eternal Security of the Believer can be supported by scripture.

God bless

 

[Jewel5712]

They do have the same idea OSAS is always used by those who do not believe in the security of the believer and they believe you can lose your eternal salvation. OSAS is always used in a negative view with no bible verse to back up there unbelief. The Eternal Security of the Believer can be supported by scripture.

God bless

THANK YOU JESUS!

 

[BillG]

You live with unreprentant sin right now. If repenting from every personal sin we commit is required for salvation, No one will get to heaven sis.

We repent of being sinful. We may not even know every sin that we can commit.. remember the law.. because the day of atonement not only took care of known sin, it took care of unknown sin. All sin was forgiven, this is true of the cross. All sin is forgiven. Forever. All it takes is our faith in Christ.

Yes I agree we repent of being sinful.

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

What is the will of God?

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So to given the above definition of repentance is to firstly to accept the will of God.
To change ones mind concerning Jesus.
To accept his claim, believe he died and rose again, and confess him as Lord and saviour.

For the forgiveness of our sins.
It's not just that though, it's why he did it.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

All of the people I have walked with I ask the following question.

"Why did you place your faith in Jesus?

They respond "Because I realised he loves me"

Jesus walked with sinners, people who sin and today it's still the same.
That still includes belivers.

So if to repent is to accept the will of God its not just about accepting Jesus but wanting to become like Jesus.
That is to accept and walk in the will of the Father.

So we know we sin, have sinful habits.
So we repent of that "God I don't want this in my life, please help me"
That's the change in the inner man.
So if I sin tomorrow I can't repent of it again, because I have already done so.
So what do I do.

I confess it to him, acknowledge it and to be honest claim it.
I can't deny it.
So name it claim it and say sorry.
Please help me in this.

Do I do so in order to be forgiven?
I have to say no.
I do it because I know it affects our relationship.
It's relationship.

Did Jesus ask Peter to repent of his sin of denying him? Nope.
He sought him out to restore the relationship that Peter probably thought he had lost.

Finally I want to say.

It seems thay the focus on sin is that of commission.
Yet people forget sins of omission.
Sin is sin.
People need to focus on sins of commission but also sins of omission.
We need to ask God, what have I not done today that I should have done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol..(shaking head)...

Lol, why the shaking head

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally grateful need a comma somewhere to make that a complete sentence beause of the way it was written it could be taken two ways so its neither wrong nor correct. Example; I disagree, we need to tithe vs I disagree we need to tithe, two opposite meanings. Same words.

The tithe was an OT income tax given to the jews. The church is not required to tithe. My point was I disagre that we need to tithe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I agree we repent of being sinful.

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

What is the will of God?

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So to given the above definition of repentance is to firstly to accept the will of God.
To change ones mind concerning Jesus.
To accept his claim, believe he died and rose again, and confess him as Lord and saviour.

For the forgiveness of our sins.
It's not just that though, it's why he did it.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

All of the people I have walked with I ask the following question.

"Why did you place your faith in Jesus?

They respond "Because I realised he loves me"

Jesus walked with sinners, people who sin and today it's still the same.
That still includes belivers.

So if to repent is to accept the will of God its not just about accepting Jesus but wanting to become like Jesus.
That is to accept and walk in the will of the Father.

So we know we sin, have sinful habits.
So we repent of that "God I don't want this in my life, please help me"
That's the change in the inner man.
So if I sin tomorrow I can't repent of it again, because I have already done so.
So what do I do.

I confess it to him, acknowledge it and to be honest claim it.
I can't deny it.
So name it claim it and say sorry.
Please help me in this.

Do I do so in order to be forgiven?
I have to say no.
I do it because I know it affects our relationship.
It's relationship.

Did Jesus ask Peter to repent of his sin of denying him? Nope.
He sought him out to restore the relationship that Peter probably thought he had lost.

Finally I want to say.

It seems thay the focus on sin is that of commission.
Yet people forget sins of omission.
Sin is sin.
People need to focus on sins of commission but also sins of omission.
We need to ask God, what have I not done today that I should have done.

I think people see the word sin, yet do not know what it means, it means literlaly to fall short or miss the mark.

Anything we do which misses the mark of perfection is sin. Yes, To know what to do and not do it is sin. Yet two people can do the same thing, one person can do it in sin, the other can do it in the spirit and it is not sin.
The believer shoudl be focused on loving others (the things of the spirit) not focused on self (sin) if they do that, they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I think people see the word sin, yet do not know what it means, it means literlaly to fall short or miss the mark.

Anything we do which misses the mark of perfection is sin. Yes, To know what to do and not do it is sin. Yet two people can do the same thing, one person can do it in sin, the other can do it in the spirit and it is not sin.
The believer shoudl be focused on loving others (the things of the spirit) not focused on self (sin) if they do that, they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I would add that the 'mark' is a perfect bullseye every single time. Not a fraction of an inch off - but purely in the middle. And if one shoots 1,000 arrows at the target, each shot must perfectly sever the arrow that was there previously.

To miss even one by the nth degree results in absolute separation from God and an eternity in hell.

Praise God Jesus is an excellent marksman - and over all these centuries - He hasn't missed the mark even one time. He is that which sacrificed His own self for the likes of me and you . . . and billions upon billions, 'whomsoever will may come.'