Is baptism required for salvation?

[UnderGrace]

The Bible may confuse you, it is really easy for me. Its written simply so as a child could understand it.
Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commands. Is that hard to understand or confusing.
If you sin, the devil is your master. not to complicated.
Repent means to cease sinning. Then be baptized.
Let me know how that works out for you? lol

Okay well... you are on the wrong track right out of the gate.

You basically have denied the efficacy and purpose of the work of Christ Jesus.
Good luck with the stop sinning part.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Repent does not mean sin no more!!

Let's start there since everything you write after that can only be fixed with correct understanding of repent.

"Metanoia" means to change one's mind

Essentially, it means to think about something later on and have a reversal of thought about it. Thus, repentance meant “to change the mind.” Specifically—to change the mind about Christ and believe that He died for all your sins personally.

Actually no.
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a : to feel regret or contrition
b : to change one's mind

You add words to the definition and leave out the first.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Okay well... you are on the wrong track right out of the gate.

You basically have denied the efficacy and purpose of the work of Christ Jesus.
Good luck with the stop sinning part.

That's what the Savior is for. Because it can't be done. As history has proven. All through time since the beginng of Creation everyone has died, is dying and will die. With the exception of two. Enoch and Elijah.
Jesus said plain and simply, "If you keep my commands, you will never taste death."

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually no.
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a : to feel regret or contrition
b : to change one's mind

You add words to the definition and leave out the first.

You will need to dig a little deeper into the etymology of the Greek word and not the Anglicized version of the word repent.

 

[UnderGrace]

That's what the Savior is for. Because it can't be done. As history has proven. All through time since the beginng of Creation everyone has died, is dying and will die. With the exception of two. Enoch and Elijah.
Jesus said plain and simply, "If you keep my commands, you will never taste death."

Okay it seems you preach sinless perfectionism or something, btw... Enoch and Elijah did die just like every other human being.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Okay it seems you preach sinless perfectionism or something, btw... Enoch and Elijah did die just like every other human being.

I think I understand why you have trouble with scripture. But don't worry. All peoples will be saved.

 

[Chuckyz2]

You will need to dig a little deeper into the etymology of the Greek word and not the Anglicized version of the word repent.

Repent is not confusing. You feel remorse and cease doing it. You can dig where ever you choose. The translation is correct on this one. One thing for sure, we dig our own graves with sin and die. For the wager of sin is death.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Let us look to the words of John the Baptist which plainly said:

Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

This verse is plain and clear, there are two different baptisms. There is water baptism that we should do if we are able to do so, to fulfill Righteousness. There is Holy Ghost Baptism that a persons heart is changed forever. One is required for Salvation, the other is not.

There is only one baptism that is Required for one to be Saved, and that is a Holy Ghost baptism, the moment your life changed because you believed in Jesus, and all your sins were washed away, a New Heart was given to you.

Water Baptism is not Required for Salvation but is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
Giving to the poor is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
Visiting the sick is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
Feeding the hungry is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
Clothing the naked is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
Helping those in need is something that we should all do if we are able to do so
All these things are things we should do, but are NOT Required for Salvation. ONLY ONE Baptism is required for Salvation that that is the Holy Ghost Baptism that Jesus does for us.

Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Which baptism do you think this verse is referring to: Water Baptism or Holy Ghost Baptism. Which ever one you pick, the other you think is less important.

Holy Ghost Baptism = Required for Salvation
Water Baptism = Not Required for Salvation but is something we should do if we are able to do it.


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Sorry if this has been answered already...
i agree with your post above...but please tell me why Jesus told the Apostles to baptize all nations in the Great Commission in Mathew 28:20

He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Is this water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Repent is not confusing. You feel remorse and cease doing it. You can dig where ever you choose. The translation is correct on this one. One thing for sure, we dig our own graves with sin and die. For the wager of sin is death.

You posted the right meaning of the word repent, but now you've changed it.

Repent does not mean to feel sorry for. This is how we've come to use this word, but it's not right.
Repent means to change direction...to go the other way, to change one's mind.

It means that when we're born we're headed in a certain direction, and that direction is toward satan. Then we come to believe so we repent --- we change direction and go the other way...toward God.
We will fall every now and then (sin) but we get up and keep going in the same direction...toward God.

This is all it means.

 

[mailmandan]

You posted the right meaning of the word repent, but now you've changed it.

Repent does not mean to feel sorry for. This is how we've come to use this word, but it's not right.
Repent means to change direction...to go the other way, to change one's mind.

It means that when we're born we're headed in a certain direction, and that direction is toward satan. Then we come to believe so we repent --- we change direction and go the other way...toward God.
We will fall every now and then (sin) but we get up and keep going in the same direction...toward God.

This is all it means.

Amen! The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind.

3341. metanoia ► Strong's Concordance metanoia: change of mind, repentance

Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Short Definition: repentance, a change of mind
Definition: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - "Repent and believe the gospel."

Acts 20:21 - .."repentance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

A person cannot believe (trust) in Christ for salvation without repenting (changing his mind) in the process. In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (saving faith in Christ), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, belief in Christ, as an expression of this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting God's Son, Jesus Christ, alone for salvation.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "completely stop sinning." That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Believers are now moving in a new direction and have turned from darkness to light (Acts 26:18).

Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning."

 

[notuptome]

Sorry if this has been answered already...
i agree with your post above...but please tell me why Jesus told the Apostles to baptize all nations in the Great Commission in Mathew 28:20

He said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Is this water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism?

Doctrine is what the verse is pointing to in the baptism. Baptism is immersion and in Mat 28:20 it is immersion in doctrine. Discipleship is immersion in the doctrines of the faith in the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jaybird88]

Is baptism a work of righteousness? According to Jesus it is (Matthew 3:15) and we are not saved by our works of righteousness (Titus 3:5[And many other verses]).

No matter how you look at it, water baptism is a work, it is something you do, and according to the Scriptures we are not saved by works, I assume you already know the many verses so I dont need to post them all here, I will list a couple references though: Gal 2:21, Eph 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5; Rom 5:1, 2 tim 1;9; rom. 3:20; Rom. 3:28; etc.

How do you get around these verses to teach that baptism is required for salvation? Do you believe in baptismal regeneration? If so, how about the example of Cornelius, where he is given the Holy Spirit and saved by hearing the Gospel and believing, and only AFTER that fact he is baptized, how is that possible if baptismal regeneration is true?

Paul said he was sent to preach the Gospel and not to baptize. If baptism is required for salvation, this would make no sense.

It's required if you want to be a follower of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Amen! The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind.

3341. metanoia ► Strong's Concordance metanoia: change of mind, repentance

Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Short Definition: repentance, a change of mind
Definition: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - "Repent and believe the gospel."

Acts 20:21 - .."repentance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

A person cannot believe (trust) in Christ for salvation without repenting (changing his mind) in the process. In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (saving faith in Christ), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, belief in Christ, as an expression of this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting God's Son, Jesus Christ, alone for salvation.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "completely stop sinning." That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Believers are now moving in a new direction and have turned from darkness to light (Acts 26:18).

Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning."

Hi MailmanDan
Great post.

Two comments:

When people say repent of your sins, they really mean to be sorry for our sins.
"Turn from your sins" could be what a goal might be. It certainly can't mean to stop sinning since that is not possible and John states so in 1 John 8-10 and 1 John 2:1, making provision for when we sin.

I also agree with what you say is the fruit of repentance.

I'm accused of teaching salvation by works, which is also impossible BTW,,,so could you explain the essence of faith (I know what the fruit of faith is).

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Doctrine is what the verse is pointing to in the baptism. Baptism is immersion and in Mat 28:20 it is immersion in doctrine. Discipleship is immersion in the doctrines of the faith in the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What are the doctrines of faith in the bible? You mean the N.T.? It wasn't written yet in Mathew 28.
And Jesus said in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,,,how could this relate to doctrine?
It's the formula for baptising persons whether in full immersion or sprinkling as some churches do.

 

[Hevosmies]

God does not hate those that are not saved.

That is a common meme in today's loveydovey society.
Psalm 5:5 says God hates all workers of iniquity.

This is in no way a contradiction to John 3:16, God loved the world in a way that He gave them a way of escape from the bondage of sin. But make no mistake about it, God still hates workers of iniquity. This is clear in the NT also, particularly the book of revelation where the messages are given to the churches

 

[Hevosmies]

I think I understand why you have trouble with scripture. But don't worry. All peoples will be saved.

Really? Great! Lets stop wasting our money on missionaries then. Shut it down, you heard the man. All people will be saved, despite what Revelation 21:8 says?

 

[notuptome]

What are the doctrines of faith in the bible? You mean the N.T.? It wasn't written yet in Mathew 28.
And Jesus said in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,,,how could this relate to doctrine?
It's the formula for baptising persons whether in full immersion or sprinkling as some churches do.

All of the bible is doctrine. The apostles preached Christ from the OT scriptures and people were saved by grace through faith. There is nothing in the subject of Mat 28 that would lend itself to anything other than doctrine. Mat 28 is about teaching not water baptism.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We go into the whole world to evangelize then take the converts and disciple them in the doctrines of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Lillywolf]

If you know me you would know that all I preach are the words in the Bible.
Because you refuse to except the simply stated and then turn and judge me for posting Bible quotes means you are a unreasonable person. Most likely not a Christian. I know many Christians of different faiths and they may or may not agree with the verses I preach, but none of them act mean like many here do. Lol.
Its like a sheep trap in here and it is odd that it is allowed.
Because I am not of your faith? That makes me unknowing? Lol
Kind of a self righteous statement. If you are so all knowing and wise, why do you refuse to engage me in friendly fair discussions using your knowledge and wisdom to show how the simply stated verses I post that conflict with your theology are wrong.

Someone here on the forum had stated in a thread they are not of the faith. If that wasn't you that was my error.
As to your observation, I know you by what you write. As in,
"We are all sinners and will all die in our sin. Everyone needs
the Savior and He promised to save everyone when He returns. "

I know that you attempt to imply insult to members here who are Christian when you say the Bible is so easy to understand a child could do it. And then launch into personal attacks when it is brought to your attention that you do not understand the Bible.
The excerpt in quotation marks above are one example. I don't know your purpose here but it is not to engage Christians with respect and a modicum of scriptural knowledge on our own field.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Someone here on the forum had stated in a thread they are not of the faith. If that wasn't you that was my error.
As to your observation, I know you by what you write. As in,
"We are all sinners and will all die in our sin. Everyone needs
the Savior and He promised to save everyone when He returns. "

I know that you attempt to imply insult to members here who are Christian when you say the Bible is so easy to understand a child could do it. And then launch into personal attacks when it is brought to your attention that you do not understand the Bible.
The excerpt in quotation marks above are one example. I don't know your purpose here but it is not to engage Christians with respect and a modicum of scriptural knowledge on our own field.

Just calling out the rudeness that I have experienced. And some people here are very rude. If you haven't noticed then you must be one of them.
The actual fact is the Bible is very easy to understand if you just sit down and study it. The simple fact that not one person has addressed my verses that are simply stated is evidence of the personalities and spirits that exist here.
I have not been treated fair.

Again, Jesus saves all mankind. I have posted the verses to support that truth. To say I don't understand the Bible because I post the Gospel as it is written and let it do the talking, well that is just as rude as it gets. lol. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Really? Great! Lets stop wasting our money on missionaries then. Shut it down, you heard the man. All people will be saved, despite what Revelation 21:8 says?

Why stop. Just use them to preach the truth. This is a great platform to preach the truth. Why lie and dodge the most import part of message in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Savior of the world.
Is Timothy confused or are you?

1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach, because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.
11 These things command and teach.