Sabbath

[posthuman]

Just my curiosity. I wonder as I visit a number of Christian discussion sites on the net if the members who engage in discussions about Apologetics and the Bible actually spend time to study either topic? Or if they just jump in thinking to argue what they think in those areas of study and without actually knowing all that much.

i'm just wondering, if this is some sort of invitation to boast of qualifications?

 

[posthuman]

No, it was the Word of God which was condemned by the Mainstream Preachers of His Time and crucified. But He didn't stay dead, He Rose from the Dead. So the Word of God is still alive to this Day. He didn't Blot Himself out, nor was the Word of God against men.

Their Law could not hold Him. God's Law ruled the day. "the wages of sin is death". He didn't sin, therefore their condemnation of Him did not stand.

He made a show of "THEM openly, not His Father. It was their Law and judgment that condemned Him, and the Gentiles. Not God's Law.

You imply that the Word of God killed Himself because He was against us. And even if this is true, He Rose from the dead so the Word of God didn't remain "blotted out".

You say: "we have peace with God because the Word became flesh and was crucified"

But He isn't dead, He is Alive.

Rom. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Word of God which became Flesh did not blot Himself out.

great. now read Romans 7:1-4 and maybe you'll understand that i never said anything was blotted out, i said He was crucified. by which death, we are reconciled: we have received peace with God. that's what God says, in His Word. ((how much greater His gift to us because He lives!!))
then maybe you won't keep posting libel about what i believe and say.

 

[Shamah]

verse 7. you left out BURNT offerings. are you still going to the temple in to offer lambs and bulls and goats and birds and grain to be burnt on the Alter as a soothing aroma?

And you ignored that the Sabbath was always for the Gentiles, and I have no problem because I understand what the Covenant is and also understand that the feasts and offerings will be in the Eternal Kingdom:

Isaiah 66:22, “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand."23, “And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה.24, “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me.c For their worm shall not die, and their fire not be quenched. And they shall be repulsive to all flesh!”

Zechariah 14
6, "And in that day it shall be: there is no light, it is dark."

7, "And it shall be one day which is known to יהוה, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light."

8, "And in that day it shall be that living waters flow from Yerushalayim, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the western sea, in summer as well as in winter. Rev 22:1-2."

9, "And יהוה shall be Sovereign over all the earth. In that day there shall be one יהוה, and His Name one.

11, "And they shall dwell in her, and there shall be no more utter destruction, but Yerushalayim shall be safely inhabited.

16, "And it shall be that all who are left from all the nations which came up against Yerushalayim, shall go up from year to year to bow themselves to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

17, "And it shall be, that if anyone of the clans of the earth does not come up to Yerushalayim to bow himself to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, on them there is to be no rain."

18, "And if the clan of Mitsrayim does not come up and enter in, then there is no rain. On them is the plague with which יהוה plagues the nations who do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

19, "This is the punishment of Mitsrayim and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

20, "In that day “SET-APART TO יהוה" shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. And the pots in the House of יהוה shall be like the bowls before the slaughter-place."

21, "And every pot in Yerushalayim and Yehuḏah shall be set-apart to יהוה of hosts. And all those who slaughter shall come and take them and cook in them. And there shall no longer be a merchant in the House of יהוה of hosts, in that day."

or do you trust the Son for salvation ??

Yes and I trust His words not just His story. It;s funny to live in a day when if you believe the Messiah's words and seek to obey them you will be accused... I wonder how doctrine could have gotten so far away from HIS words?

Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

 

[gb9]

And you ignored that the Sabbath was always for the Gentiles, and I have no problem because I understand what the Covenant is and also understand that the feasts and offerings will be in the Eternal Kingdom:

Isaiah 66:22, “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand."23, “And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה.24, “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me.c For their worm shall not die, and their fire not be quenched. And they shall be repulsive to all flesh!”

Zechariah 14
6, "And in that day it shall be: there is no light, it is dark."

7, "And it shall be one day which is known to יהוה, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light."

8, "And in that day it shall be that living waters flow from Yerushalayim, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the western sea, in summer as well as in winter. Rev 22:1-2."

9, "And יהוה shall be Sovereign over all the earth. In that day there shall be one יהוה, and His Name one.

11, "And they shall dwell in her, and there shall be no more utter destruction, but Yerushalayim shall be safely inhabited.

16, "And it shall be that all who are left from all the nations which came up against Yerushalayim, shall go up from year to year to bow themselves to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

17, "And it shall be, that if anyone of the clans of the earth does not come up to Yerushalayim to bow himself to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, on them there is to be no rain."

18, "And if the clan of Mitsrayim does not come up and enter in, then there is no rain. On them is the plague with which יהוה plagues the nations who do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

19, "This is the punishment of Mitsrayim and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot.

20, "In that day “SET-APART TO יהוה" shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. And the pots in the House of יהוה shall be like the bowls before the slaughter-place."

21, "And every pot in Yerushalayim and Yehuḏah shall be set-apart to יהוה of hosts. And all those who slaughter shall come and take them and cook in them. And there shall no longer be a merchant in the House of יהוה of hosts, in that day."



Yes and I trust His words not just His story. It;s funny to live in a day when if you believe the Messiah's words and seek to obey them you will be accused... I wonder how doctrine could have gotten so far away from HIS words?

Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

and this is why oneness is a lie, and Trinity is truth. God the Father said to hear the Son. this means the Words in Red.

God gave Moses the Law on Sinai. Jesus gave the world, any who would follow Him, His instructions in the Sermon on the Mount.


and, Paul clearly said in Romans " '''' the gentiles , who do not have the law...…"

 

[Shamah]

and this is why oneness is a lie, and Trinity is truth. God the Father said to hear the Son. this means the Words in Red.

God gave Moses the Law on Sinai. Jesus gave the world, any who would follow Him, His instructions in the Sermon on the Mount.

on the sermon on the mount the Messiah said nothing will pass from the Law..

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Paul clearly said in Romans " '''' the gentiles , who do not have the law...…"

Romans 2:12-15,12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law."13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified."14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law."15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

That passage is not helping you anti-nomian stance...

the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

does the conscience feel bad and repent from breaking the Law: accuse

or

justify the breaking of the Law: even excuse them

and the beginning of that chapter:

Romans 3:1-2,1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?"2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God."

from this I understand knowing thw Word is a good thing...

and if the Law is written on the heart how can one say it is to be ignored?

 

[Lillywolf]

lol who do you imagine is the "source" when scripture is quoted?

do you doubt?

you don't see whether a source has been cited if you don't read at all.

Excuses just make it worse.
Who takes from a Bible site and doesn't credit it? Oh, that one.

 

[Lillywolf]

and this is why oneness is a lie, and Trinity is truth. God the Father said to hear the Son. this means the Words in Red.

God gave Moses the Law on Sinai. Jesus gave the world, any who would follow Him, His instructions in the Sermon on the Mount.


and, Paul clearly said in Romans " '''' the gentiles , who do not have the law...…"

You can be banned here if you don't agree with trinity.
But you can't be banned to bring up the God given teaching that God himself said he is one.

 

[gb9]

on the sermon on the mount the Messiah said nothing will pass from the Law..

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."



Romans 2:12-15,12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law."13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified."14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law."15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

That passage is not helping you anti-nomian stance...

the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

does the conscience feel bad and repent from breaking the Law: accuse

or

justify the breaking of the Law: even excuse them

and the beginning of that chapter:

Romans 3:1-2,1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?"2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God."

from this I understand knowing thw Word is a good thing...

and if the Law is written on the heart how can one say it is to be ignored?

I am not saying ignore the Law. I am saying , as Paul was here, that we are to fulfill the righteous INTENT of the Law. not keep the letter.

what Paul was saying here was some gentiles were doing that, even though they did not have the actual Law. which only Israel had.

the letter ( of the Law ) kills , but the Sprit, ( Holy Sprit, 3rd member of the Trinity ), gives life and comes to dwell inside a believer after accepting Christ.

and the Fruits of the Sprit are a manifestation of how to fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.

all by Christ, and His FINISHED Work on the Cross.

 

[gb9]

You can be banned here if you don't agree with trinity.
But you can't be banned to bring up the God given teaching that God himself said he is one.

Jesus said " I and the Father are one ". He also said " my Father is greater than I " . and " no one comes to the Father except through me ".

Trinity is truth. I could on for an hour proving it from Scripture.

oneness is a lie , to push law/Sabbath keeping for salvation.

 

[Lillywolf]

Jesus said " I and the Father are one ". He also said " my Father is greater than I " . and " no one comes to the Father except through me ".

Trinity is truth. I could on for an hour proving it from Scripture.

oneness is a lie , to push law/Sabbath keeping for salvation.

While you seek to bait banning, you can also be banned for calling God a liar, I'm sure. Either way, don't take this thread off topic. If you want to argue for an hour hoping to find people who disagree , make your own thread.

 

[Dan_473]

You are Right, The Messiah sit's at the right hand of the Father. But it was the Messiah which created all things. It was the Christ who said:

"I am the Lord your God". At least this is what the scriptures say. And I have no reason to doubt them.

It is Yahweh, the Divine name that is doing the speaking in Psalm 110, at least at the first part. So Jesus is sitting at the right hand of Yahweh. And it sounds like we agree that Jesus is not the same as y'all way in every respect.

Many passages where it says I am the Lord your God the Lord there is Yahweh. Which passage are you thinking of?

 

[Dan_473]

I would suggest the ceremonies in respect to ceremonial laws using the temporal things seen are used as a shadow to represent to true. Ceremonial laws as shadows were used to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand .

Many today take away the understanding by saying the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ was not dwelling in men before Pentecost taking away the understanding found in 1 Peter 1:11

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow1 Peter 1:11
The Old testament saints looked ahead according to the ceremonial law . The glory has come . The old testament saints who were promised entered the promised land the new heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the bride.

We are not to judge one another in respect to shadows we walk by faith the unseen eternal .

Colossians 2:16-18 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

The reformation has come .Something many from my experience overlook. Many will acknowledge the fifteenth but not the first century reformation

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrew 9:8

The Holy Spirit signifying, using the things seen the temporal as a shadow of the things not seen, the eternal

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Hebrew 9:9

Or which was a parable same Greek word as figure for the temporal time period.

Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them "until" the time of reformation"Hebrew 9:10

Again the reformation has come over two thousands years ago .The kingdom of God is restored to another time period . We walk by faith the unseen eternal. And not after the temporal shadows.

I think something happened at penny cost with respect to the Holy Spirit. I Think Jesus says something about the spirit is among you and shall be in you. That's before he dies.

 

[Dan_473]

That doesn't answer the question I posed.

I thought it was implied in my answer. I'll try to make it more explicit.

Yes, I believe that Jesus is an immortal God. Maybe to say the immortal God would be more accurate.

And when he appears, we shall be like him. We shall not be him in every respect.

 

[Dan_473]

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I suppose it would be wise to question religious traditions of man rather than defend them.

I agree! I believe that's what I'm doing. It's important to question traditions that humans come up with whether it's a large group of humans or just a particular person.

So yes, let's ask questions!

 

[Dan_473]

We're speaking of the time of the OT. Not the Jews of today who don't accept Messiah.

Sorry I don't follow you. The complete Jewish Bible is a modern translation, I believe. Though, the Old Testament is from something like 1917.

The bottom line is that it is Yahweh, the Divine name, that says sit at my right hand.

 

[posthuman]

Excuses just make it worse.
Who takes from a Bible site and doesn't credit it? Oh, that one.

hmm if you feel this way, why doesn't your own signature list what website you copied the verses from?






and why am i the only one you're looking down your nose at, seeing as literally everyone in this thread is quoting the Bible without listing exactly what webpage or published edition they're reading from? lady, you ain't doing much for your credibility, the way you've decided to start attacking me. you're making very little sense.

 

[Nehemiah6]

While you seek to bait banning, you can also be banned for calling God a liar, I'm sure. Either way, don't take this thread off topic.

Over 6,500 posts in this thread and the Sabbatarians have not given up. As far as Christians are concerned this thread is "off topic". Seventh day sabbath observance belongs to the Old Covenant.

 

[Lillywolf]

Over 6,500 posts in this thread and the Sabbatarians have not given up. As far as Christians are concerned this thread is "off topic". Seventh day sabbath observance belongs to the Old Covenant.

No, they don't. Calling those who recognize God's decree Sabbatarians isn't an insult. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. We have our rest in him every day of our life. He never once said the Sabbath was abolished. He created the Sabbath before he gave the ten commands that included the Sabbath.
Who actually denies a member of the body of Christ the right to spend one day in rest with God. Readying ourselves for the days we work within the world we are alive in but are no longer part of.
And writing this on a Sunday no less.

 

[Lillywolf]

hmm if you feel this way, why doesn't your own signature list what website you copied the verses from?


View attachment 188256



and why am i the only one you're looking down your nose at, seeing as literally everyone in this thread is quoting the Bible without listing exactly what webpage or published edition they're reading from? lady, you ain't doing much for your credibility, the way you've decided to start attacking me. you're making very little sense.

I'm not looking down my nose. I'm typing looking straight ahead at the monitor where copy and paste commentary of scriptures do appear without a link to their source in certain threads you post in. Thinking people think it is your own writing?
And if you click the picture in my signature you'll see source.

 

[Shamah]

I am not saying ignore the Law. I am saying , as Paul was here, that we are to fulfill the righteous INTENT of the Law. not keep the letter.

what Paul was saying here was some gentiles were doing that, even though they did not have the actual Law. which only Israel had.

the letter ( of the Law ) kills , but the Sprit, ( Holy Sprit, 3rd member of the Trinity ), gives life and comes to dwell inside a believer after accepting Christ.

and the Fruits of the Sprit are a manifestation of how to fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.

all by Christ, and His FINISHED Work on the Cross.

I agree the Spirit of the Law is the way all should walk. However one can not murder but keep the SPirit of Do not murder.

Most people have no clue what "the letter of the Law" is, they think it is reading it...

The letter is disecting the words in a way like the pharisees in which they look for "loopholes" in what is written to actually transgress the Law and it's intent while ACTING like they keep it...

Here is an example of the Letter v the Spirit for those who have no clue what Israel did 2,000 years ago and still do;

Deuteronomy 5:22, “These Words יהוה spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a loud voice, and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.”

Deuteronomy 6:8, “and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Spirit or letter? The Spirit says one thing The letter can be twisted continually

This is how Judaism “keeps” the “letter” of the Law and not the Spirit:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -
Tefillin (Askhenazic: /ˈtfɪlᵻn/; Israeli Hebrew: [tfiˈlin], ),תפילין also called phylacteries (/fɪˈlæktəriːz/ from Ancient Greek φυλακτήριον phylacterion, form of phylássein, φυλάσσειν meaning "to guard, protect"), are a set of small black leather boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah. They are worn by male observant Jews during weekday morning prayers.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...lin.jpg/599px-IDF_soldier_put_on_tefillin.jpg

Rather than have the Law in their heart they “followed it” letter letter for letter, they tied the paper on which the Law was written to their head and arm.

"bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes"

The proper implication of this Law would be to Spiritually binding them to your hand by doing the Laws in ones life. Spiritually binding them as a frontlet between your eyes would be keeping them in your mind.…