Not By Works

[calibob]

Oh boy, I pray to my God that things can change in the future. I have been so impressed lately by John 17 and the prayer the Savior gave...”that they all may be one.” I don’t have the answers of how, but I believe He knows and He will get us all there if we are willing to listen. You are no better than I and I am no better than you. We sin differently, that’s for sure. How are we ever going to be one if we cannot see the similarities and seek understanding? As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am considered by 75% of this world as Christian. Of the 25% of Christians on this planet, there is a large percentage of those who will not accept me as a Christian because of misunderstanding. We are all ready out numbered 3 to 1! How are we going to win the battles coming if we do not become one? I feel it has to do with facing fear with faith. I see a lot of good in what you have shared with me. In fact, I still just love the not work for but work out your salvation thing you said. Here is what I believe and there are a few similarities if you have eyes to see (Romans 11)...
Jesus taught:
“13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you--that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil--
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;
22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

Is that so wonderfully clear and powerful? The Savior, the most intelligent man who has ever lived can explain His own gospel so well!

Will you please explain something to me? How do you explain major doctrine changes like black people are cursed, caffeine is a sin and plural marriages are of God? does God change his mind that often or was it bunk to start with?

 

[Jewel5712]

Oh boy, I pray to my God that things can change in the future. I have been so impressed lately by John 17 and the prayer the Savior gave...”that they all may be one.” I don’t have the answers of how, but I believe He knows and He will get us all there if we are willing to listen. You are no better than I and I am no better than you. We sin differently, that’s for sure. How are we ever going to be one if we cannot see the similarities and seek understanding? As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am considered by 75% of this world as Christian. Of the 25% of Christians on this planet, there is a large percentage of those who will not accept me as a Christian because of misunderstanding. We are all ready out numbered 3 to 1! How are we going to win the battles coming if we do not become one? I feel it has to do with facing fear with faith. I see a lot of good in what you have shared with me. In fact, I still just love the not work for but work out your salvation thing you said. Here is what I believe and there are a few similarities if you have eyes to see (Romans 11)...
Jesus taught:
“13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you--that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil--
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;
22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

Is that so wonderfully clear and powerful? The Savior, the most intelligent man who has ever lived can explain His own gospel so well!

This is a very simplistic view of my understandung being "unified"..theres ONE WAY to get the heaven..through Jesus Christ..any other "deniminational" traditions are just fluffl..if a person is saved through Jesus hrist and wants to pray with rosery beads etc..we WILL NOT AND CANNOT be judged for things we dont know in our human ignorance..if someone is saved..elieves tgat tgey are abuding by thier knowlege of Gods Word etc whos to say they wont be in heaven DISPITE denimination affiliation..we are judged by our hearts and by what we DO know...

 

[Lovingothers]

What about the trinity?
The 3 levels of heaven?
God the Father being a man?
Is Jesus the firstborn of a heavenly Father and Mother

St. Patrick taught the doctrine of the Godhead just the way I believe it to be. He held up a clover and explained that 3 leaves are separate, but connected in purpose. Love that! Also, Matt 3:16-17 is a good example

Paul could explain the 3 kingdoms, he did so in his language to the Corinthians in 15:39-42.

Jesus could explain to you about God being once a man since he was called the Son of Man and looked just like Him Hebrews 1:3

Paul also referenced Jesus as the firstborn of all...Colossians 1:15

I love the Bible and am so thankful for the books that support it as well.

 

[calibob]

Dont you know..the "good ones" are ALWAYS married..lol..i think thats true cause they have a wife that TRAINES them..lol

Trains them how like leave the seat down or don't leave the milk out?

 

[Jewel5712]

Will you please explain something to me? How do you explain major doctrine changes like black people are cursed, caffeine is a sin and plural marriages are of God? does God change his mind that often or was it bunk to start with?

Lol. CAFFIENE A SIN???? Boy..im doomed!

 

[Jewel5712]

Trains them how like leave the seat down or don't leave the milk out?

ABSOLUTLY! Lol

 

[Jewel5712]

Trains them how like leave the seat down or don't leave the milk out?

Or..dont drink from the milk caton..throw laundry IN the hamper not outside it..hang up wet bath towels dont just throw on floor..lol

 

[Lovingothers]

Will you please explain something to me? How do you explain major doctrine changes like black people are cursed, caffeine is a sin and plural marriages are of God? does God change his mind that often or was it bunk to start with?

I think the Bible actually gives light on these questions:
Why was plural marriage okay for Abraham?
Why was circumcision and animal sacrifice discontinued after the Savior came? Why was it okay to start teaching the gentiles in acts when it wasn’t okay earlier?
Caffeine, itself, is not a sin as far as I know. Whenever we go on long car trips I am thankful for caffeine...my husband struggles to stay awake otherwise. No scripture that I know suggests that, but the word of wisdom warns against addictive drugs and drinks. God wants us to make good decisions and avoid things that cloud our mind and bring us much sadness. He wants us to happy.
I would also invite you to ask the Lord about these things and study it out. He answers much better than I could.

 

[Jewel5712]

I think the Bible actually gives light on these questions:
Why was plural marriage okay for Abraham?
Why was circumcision and animal sacrifice discontinued after the Savior came? Why was it okay to start teaching the gentiles in acts when it wasn’t okay earlier?
Caffeine, itself, is not a sin as far as I know. Whenever we go on long car trips I am thankful for caffeine...my husband struggles to stay awake otherwise. No scripture that I know suggests that, but the word of wisdom warns against addictive drugs and drinks. God wants us to make good decisions and avoid things that cloud our mind and bring us much sadness. He wants us to happy.
I would also invite you to ask the Lord about these things and study it out. He answers much better than I could.

COFFEE MAKES ME HAPPY n those around me cause they know i can be crabby in the morning without my coffee..lol

 

[calibob]

I think the Bible actually gives light on these questions:
Why was plural marriage okay for Abraham?
Why was circumcision and animal sacrifice discontinued after the Savior came? Why was it okay to start teaching the gentiles in acts when it wasn’t okay earlier?
Caffeine, itself, is not a sin as far as I know. Whenever we go on long car trips I am thankful for caffeine...my husband struggles to stay awake otherwise. No scripture that I know suggests that, but the word of wisdom warns against addictive drugs and drinks. God wants us to make good decisions and avoid things that cloud our mind and bring us much sadness. He wants us to happy.
I would also invite you to ask the Lord about these things and study it out. He answers much better than I could.

My point is that things LDS doctrine have changed, a lot. My uncle bill was a bishop in the LDS only 50 years ago when LDS members weren't allowed to marry blacks and Blacks weren't allowed in their churches. They couldn't drink Coke ad in fin item. On a biblical scale 50 years is a drop in the bucket. Did God change his mind or was Josef Smith wrong?

 

[Lovingothers]

This is a very simplistic view of my understandung being "unified"..theres ONE WAY to get the heaven..through Jesus Christ..any other "deniminational" traditions are just fluffl..if a person is saved through Jesus hrist and wants to pray with rosery beads etc..we WILL NOT AND CANNOT be judged for things we dont know in our human ignorance..if someone is saved..elieves tgat tgey are abuding by thier knowlege of Gods Word etc whos to say they wont be in heaven DISPITE denimination affiliation..we are judged by our hearts and by what we DO know...

I completely agree with you. Isn’t it amazing that God has a plan to make it all fair! That is one reason He has baptisms for the dead. Jesus taught in John 3:5 it is essential for salvation, but there are many who never heard of Christ while alive. Progression does not stop after life, but will end for many at the judgement day. Thus, there are many who were ignorant that will have every opportunity to accept Him and follow His commandments: including baptism. Peter 4:16 is interesting on that subject.

 

[Lovingothers]

COFFEE MAKES ME HAPPY n those around me cause they know i can be crabby in the morning without my coffee..lol

Haha, I have crabby mornings too. It might be even harder though if coffee isn’t available some day.

 

[Lovingothers]

My point is that things LDS doctrine have changed, a lot. My uncle bill was a bishop in the LDS only 50 years ago when LDS members weren't allowed to marry blacks and Blacks weren't allowed in their churches. They couldn't drink Coke ad in fin item. On a biblical scale 50 years is a drop in the bucket. Did God change his mind or was Josef Smith wrong?

Did you know Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood? He never taught black people shouldn’t receive the priesthood. Interesting huh? I feel God inspired the change in the 1970’s. That doesn’t seem to have much to do with Joseph Smith. As Far as I know coke has never been mentioned in the word of wisdom. There are lots of changes in the restored Church of Jesus Christ. The world is changing, sin changes, temptation change, and Jesus loves us and wants us be aware of those things to avoid sin. Paul did not have an iPhone...neither did Joseph Smith. Russel M Nelson is the living prophet today and most likely he has an iPhone.

 

[VCO]

Oh boy, I pray to my God that things can change in the future. I have been so impressed lately by John 17 and the prayer the Savior gave...”that they all may be one.” I don’t have the answers of how, but I believe He knows and He will get us all there if we are willing to listen. You are no better than I and I am no better than you. We sin differently, that’s for sure. How are we ever going to be one if we cannot see the similarities and seek understanding? As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am considered by 75% of this world as Christian. Of the 25% of Christians on this planet, there is a large percentage of those who will not accept me as a Christian because of misunderstanding. We are all ready out numbered 3 to 1! How are we going to win the battles coming if we do not become one? I feel it has to do with facing fear with faith. I see a lot of good in what you have shared with me. In fact, I still just love the not work for but work out your salvation thing you said. Here is what I believe and there are a few similarities if you have eyes to see (Romans 11)...
Jesus taught:
“13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you--that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil--
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;
22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

Is that so wonderfully clear and powerful? The Savior, the most intelligent man who has ever lived can explain His own gospel so well!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah...as i posted in another thread..my brother in laws sister died yesterday..out of the blue..collapsed on the driveway..dead..she has 3 gradeschool kids n 40 yrs old...autopsy being done today..always shakes a person a bit when family members die..reminds us yet again how fragile life is and how it can change on a dime! I had just seen her at my daughters baby shower last weekend..one weekend fime..next weekemd dead..

Crazy............have had a few friends just drop dead.......when your number is up....it is up for sure....

 

[Jewel5712]

Crazy............have had a few friends just drop dead.......when your number is up....it is up for sure....

 

[dcontroversal]

Dont you know..the "good ones" are ALWAYS married..lol..i think thats true cause they have a wife that TRAINES them..lol

Hilarious...........!!

 

[Jewel5712]

@dcontroversal ..gotta play catch up d...lol

 

[Jewel5712]

Hilarious...........!!

Im gonna start that thread in the singles forum bout married men are good cause tgier wife trains them..gonna "stir the pot" a bit..lol

 

[Jewel5712]

Im gonna start that thread in the singles forum bout married men are good cause tgier wife trains them..gonna "stir the pot" a bit..lol

@calibob..no worries cali..youre my partner in crime..lol but tgey probably wont care or KNOW bout that topic cause theyre all SINGLE..lol