Sabbath

[Dan_473]

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Amen to guarding and keeping God's Commandments!

Now there's not a person on this forum who guards and keeps all of God's Commandments, because there's many that simply can't be done today because there is no Temple or tent of meeting.

We also see from the apostles sent by Jesus who wrote after his resurrection that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills all the Commandments and the bearing of one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ.

So clearly, to me, those are the Commandments that we are to Garden keep.

 

[garee]

drinking blood was part of the worship of false gods, probably still is somewhere. but so was drinking alcohol and having sex. do you refuse to do those as well?

"As redeemed man, the only blood we are to consume is the resurrected blood of Christ's (by dwelling in him and he in us)."

where is this commandment given? I thought the saying that we are what we eat was folk wisdom. is it in the scriptures as well?

if you get a blood transfusion, is it now that someone else is living inside of you, in your veins, along with you? or is that blood actually just a collection of chemicals?

According to the interpretation principle as a prescription found below.(2 Corinthians 4:18 ) Because we walk by faith the unseen eternal, blood like water or any rudiment of this world as that seen the temporal is used to represent the things not seen...... the eternal.

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

Although the scripture uses the phrase "The life of the flesh is in the blood". literal blood without the Spirit of God has no life to offer. That can be seen in a parable in Luke when Christ was drinking the cup of the wrath that the father gave him to drink. Using sweat (the temporal) to indicate the work of salvation and was as it was..... identifies a parable in in view

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

The promise was he would pour out His unseen Spirit. The reason for the one time outward demonstration .

Many today make it about the literal blood as if God was a man as us.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit Joel 2:28-29

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.Proverbs 1:23

 

[garee]

Amen to guarding and keeping God's Commandments!

Now there's not a person on this forum who guards and keeps all of God's Commandments, because there's many that simply can't be done today because there is no Temple or tent of meeting.

We also see from the apostles sent by Jesus who wrote after his resurrection that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills all the Commandments and the bearing of one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ.

So clearly, to me, those are the Commandments that we are to Garden keep.

Yes good way to describe the work of Christ that works in us. We can plant the incorruptible seed by which all men are born again from above by studying, seeking His approval, or water it with the water of the word as the doctrines of God .But only Christ can cause the growth if there is any.

 

[Studyman]

I believe you brought up the idea of following Jesus' instructions here in post 824
"If a person does more than just "Hear" His Word's, and takes a leap of Faith and "does" what He instructs, as opposed to find excuses NOT to "do" what He says, then He has promised to "manifest" Him self to this person."

now you say
"Did the Messiah come down and personally tell you to go fishing? Or was the Messiah speaking to Peter and you took it on yourself to include yourself in the instruction?"
that was my point all along. Some instructions that Jesus gives are for all of us, some are only for certain people or a certain person.

So you can't simply take something that he tells the Rich Young Ruler, for example, and say that it applies to all people.

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

[Yahshua]

drinking blood was part of the worship of false gods, probably still is somewhere. but so was drinking alcohol and having sex. do you refuse to do those as well?

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.

"As redeemed man, the only blood we are to consume is the resurrected blood of Christ's (by dwelling in him and he in us)."

where is this commandment given? I thought the saying that we are what we eat was folk wisdom. is it in the scriptures as well?

But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.

if you get a blood transfusion, is it now that someone else is living inside of you, in your veins, along with you? or is that blood actually just a collection of chemicals?

Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Lots of interesting points there!

Yes, I do say that Jesus response to the Rich Young Ruler is not intended for all people at all times, but only for those who ask God what it is they need to do, that is by their own actions their own powers, in order to get eternal life.

We often hear the question that the man asks as Lord how can I get eternal life. But that's not quite what he asks. He wants to know what he can do.

I think a much better question to ask is Lord please give me eternal life!

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

And yes, I agree very much that it's important to know which of Jesus instructions are for us, and which are not. I don't think I ignored that part of your post, it was implied in my response I believe.

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

That's a good question about weather instructions given by Elijah for the healing of a particular person are for us all. I would say no. And yes, it's important to rightly divide that!

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Absolutely true that we should do as the Christ instructs! That's been my point all along!

 

[Studyman]

Lots of interesting points there!

Yes, I do say that Jesus response to the Rich Young Ruler is not intended for all people at all times, but only for those who ask God what it is they need to do, that is by their own actions their own powers, in order to get eternal life.

We often hear the question that the man asks as Lord how can I get eternal life. But that's not quite what he asks. He wants to know what he can do.

I think a much better question to ask is Lord please give me eternal life!

I see. So you believe If I ask God "what can I do to be like you" (an immortal God) He will tell me to do the same thing He has told all mankind since He spoke to Cain.

But if I go to God and just ask Him, "please make me a God," He will just grant it to me no questions asked.

I can see how that would look "good" and a desired religion for sure. But I just don't think that is what the Messiah had in mind when He said.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Studyman]

Absolutely true that we should do as the Christ instructs! That's been my point all along!

Who is the Christ? Is He not the Word of God which was made Flesh and dwelt among us? Did He not say:

Ex. 20:
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Did He not say:

Jer. 31: After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And again:

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

[Lillywolf]

I think that Christ himself and his disciples after he was laid to rest in the tomb recognized the Sabbath, even as did the apostle Paul later, that we have the answer as to the Sabbath day's importance for those who follow Christ today. When those who knew him personally followed it after he was laid to rest, and while Jesus demonstrated what the Sabbath day was meant to be rather than what was practiced and punished by the law keepers, what can we say of it?
That it no longer applies?
How do we do that and then say we go to church any day of the week but what is the traditional Sabbath God himself instituted for us and our sake?

Mark 2:27
And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

 

[posthuman]

Lots of interesting points there!

Yes, I do say that Jesus response to the Rich Young Ruler is not intended for all people at all times, but only for those who ask God what it is they need to do, that is by their own actions their own powers, in order to get eternal life.

We often hear the question that the man asks as Lord how can I get eternal life. But that's not quite what he asks. He wants to know what he can do.

I think a much better question to ask is Lord please give me eternal life!

virtually everything this man says is wrong.

"good teacher" -- if He is good, He is not 'rabbi' but He is God.
"what must i do to inherit?" -- inheritance is by birth, not by works. eternal life is neither by works or by heritage, but by grace through faith.
"i have kept all these from my youth" -- really? has this guy heard the sermon on the mount?

one thing he gets right, though he doesn't say it but rather implies it by what he says, is knowing that by keeping the commandments of the Law he has not done enough to merit life. he says he has kept them from his youth, but he says this in the context of asking Christ what is lacking: he knows the righteousness that is in the Law is insufficient. it is at the time that he says this, "I have kept" that the scripture says, Jesus looked on him, loving him.
did He love him because he said he had kept these commandments? or because having said this, he made clear that he understood the keeping of commandments is not the way to life?

he is asking for a commandment to do which will result in life. Jesus says he lacks one thing, and directs him to do something that is not in the Law, which goes far beyond the written commandments. effectively, He tells him, if he wants to receive life by what he does, he must surpass what is written in the Law, and follow Him. that eternal life is not found in the commandments ((in re: Galatians 3:21))

 

[posthuman]

Mark 2:27
And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

if we are become slaves to the observance of a day, then are we made for it or is it made for us?

 

[Shamah]

Amen to guarding and keeping God's Commandments!

Now there's not a person on this forum who guards and keeps all of God's Commandments, because there's many that simply can't be done today because there is no Temple or tent of meeting.

We also see from the apostles sent by Jesus who wrote after his resurrection that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills all the Commandments and the bearing of one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ.

So clearly, to me, those are the Commandments that we are to Garden keep.

Well that is partly a false view, because the Levite priesthood is no more, so there is no need of a Temple or a Tent of Meeting, instead, anything that would have been done there we now go to the High Priest, Yahshua in prayer:

Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to יהוה through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."

None of us are perfect but it is possible to live a life inside His commands, that is why John said this:

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of Yah is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

 

[Shamah]

if we are become slaves to the observance of a day, then are we made for it or is it made for us?

SO is not stealing "slaves to observance of a Law"?

Or is doing His will being a slave to the Most High?

The Sabbath is a time to connect with YHWH and put aside things of the world... Leave it to man to spin that as bad.

 

[Lillywolf]

if we are become slaves to the observance of a day, then are we made for it or is it made for us?

I don't believe God created a day for us to be slaves. Jesus came to free the slaves. God did that also in the Old Testament.

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The word which became flesh is not the same in every respect as Yahweh, unless the word which became flesh sits at its own right hand and talks to itself. Or his right hand and himself if you prefer.

Now the book of Isaiah says that it is concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Also I believe you quoted Isaiah 56, not 54.

But yes, the general instructions in Isaiah 56 seem to be for all people everywhere. And we know from other instructions in the Bible, that we don't pollute the Sabbath by doing physical labor on it. And, we keep the Sabbath by loving our neighbor as ourselves and bearing one another's burdens.

 

[posthuman]

SO is not stealing "slaves to observance of a Law"?

Or is doing His will being a slave to the Most High?

The Sabbath is a time to connect with YHWH and put aside things of the world... Leave it to man to spin that as bad.

​

For by what anyone has been subdued, by that also he is enslaved. ​

(2 Peter 2:19) ​

when Jesus says man is not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath is made for man, the context He says it in is giving an example of the Law being set aside and yet those setting aside ((i.e. breaking)) the Law not being considered guilty. ((Mark 2:23-28, Matthew 12:1-8))

if He is saying this in the context of something greater than the commandment taking precedence over the commandment, so that the commandment may be broken without guilt, how can you think it means anything other than that the sabbath commandment may be set aside for the sake of a greater righteousness?
if the opposite is true - that the sabbath cannot be set aside - then man is made for the sabbath, not the other way around.

the context is the disciples accused of breaking the sabbath. Christ does not argue they haven't; He responds by pointing out where the Law is broken without guilt: David receiving and eating holy bread, and the priests every week profaning the sabbath in the temple, even by doing what the priests are commanded to do under the Law. it is immensely significant that He responds this way!! and hugely important to comprehend what He means by saying He is 'Lord of the Sabbath' -- ignoring this context is ((IMO)) at the peril of getting the meaning of that title completely backwards.

if you are unable to do something good because you fear breaking the observance of a day, you are a slave to the day, not a slave to goodness, and you have become as though made for the day.
if the ceremonial commandments may be set aside for the sake of goodness, they are not a law unto us, but righteousness is, and righteousness therefore does not unilaterally require the observance of a day.

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

I agree that the Sabbath was made for man, which sounds like all people.

Though, are all people given the instruction not to work on it? In the Deuteronomy version, it is said that the Israelites were not to work on the Sabbath because they had been slaves in Egypt. That would just be specifically the Israelites not all people.

Are there other cultures that observe a day of not working at all every 7 days? There must be some people in other cultures especially in ancient times who had the law of God written on their hearts as Paul talks about in Romans. So do they rest one day out of 7? or is it a more general idea of God giving to humans the ability to work and periods of rest? I don't know, I'd be interested in learning about that.