For those why deny the Deity of Jesus Christ.

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bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
113
#61
whats really strange is that back when Jesus was teaching, Jews did not reject what He taught. it was not until many years later that Jews overwhelmingly started to reject Christian teaching.
i have always wondered what it was that drove the Jews away from the faith?
Now jaybird, this is a reasonable question or should I say comment you are making. My answer is that the Jews did indeed "REJECT" what Jesus taught to the point of wanting to kill Him. Do you know why? Secondly, please give me some examples of the Jews not rejecting what Jesus taught? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,865
29,247
113
#62
Now jaybird, this is a reasonable question or should I say comment you are making.
How can you call it reasonable when it is so blatantly false? Just wondering :)
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
113
#63
How can you call it reasonable when it is so blatantly false? Just wondering :)
Don't you think I get that magenta? I'm trying to find out how he arrived at his conclusion that the Jews did not reject Jesus' teachings. It's called trying to have a dialogue. Please, lighten up and show a little patience. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#64
What does this verse have to do with anything? And since you brought up James 2:14 suppose you reconcile what James said to what the Apostle Paul said at Ephesians 2:8,9? "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselvesk, it is the gift of God; vs9, NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, that no one shoule boast."

Btw zmouth, if you do deny the deity of Jesus Christ can you please answer my original question of this thread. Thank You!

"Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I did answer your question, the man said he wasn't Christ when he told his disciples not to say he was Jesus the Christ.

Do you believe in the doctrine of Christ? (I made that rhetorical since I haven't meet a Christian yet that can answer a direct question.)

The man said that the doctrine he gave was not his doctrine but his who sent him.

Like I said, who are those who really deny the deity of Christ but those who claim Jesus the man is the Christ.

But I will leave you with this verse in John 8:49 " Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."

they are not allowed to bluto or they get banned, you know this all to well.
If you are so scared of saying what you believe in your heart to be the truth as to not dance with the one who brought you then you might just be dancing with the devil.

 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#65
Really? Wow. My Bible says the Jewish people had Jesus crucified... because they rejected His teachings.
my bible says the priest leadership wanted to kill Jesus but were scared to death of the crowds, the crowds in question would have been Jews.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#66
Why would you get banned for answering a simple Biblical question like the following?

Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."

I mean these are discussion/apologetics boards where people are suppose to give an answser for their faith as to what they believe and why they believe it. (1 Peter 3:15). So if one denies the deity of Jesus Christ and any other Biblical teaching I would like to know why? 2 Corinthinans 5:11, "Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences." What say you jaybird? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
why would they get banned? thats a good question. IMO they get banned when people provoke them to say something they can report and ban them for. its a shameful practice but some people can not argue their point unless the other side is censored.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#67
If you are so scared of saying what you believe in your heart to be the truth as to not dance with the one who brought you then you might just be dancing with the devil.

only nose knows where the nose grows.
 
Sep 12, 2018
26
5
3
#68
Their first article of faith simply states: We believe in God the Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. There is absolutely NOTHING in their articles of faith affirming the Deity of Jesus Christ. They deny Jesus as creator, making Him instead a "spirit brother" of Satan!

Mormons believe the following about God: He has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321) but attained that status through righteous living and persistent effort (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

They believe God the Father has a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22).

Brigham Young taught that Adam actually was God and the father of Jesus Christ—although this teaching has been abandoned by modern Mormon leaders.

In contrast, Christians know this about God: there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6–8). He always has existed and always will exist (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17). He was not created but is the Creator (Genesis 1; Psalm 24:1; Isaiah 37:16). He is perfect, and no one else is equal to Him (Psalm 86:8; Isaiah 40:25). God the Father is not a man, nor was He ever (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9). He is Spirit (John 4:24), and Spirit is not made of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39).

Mormons believe that there are different levels or kingdoms in the afterlife: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348). Where mankind will end up depends on what they believe and do in this life (2 Nephi 25:23; Articles of Faith, p.79).

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

Contrary to this, Christians historically have taught that no one can achieve the status of God—only He is holy (1 Samuel 2:2). We can only be made holy in God's sight through faith in Him (1 Corinthians 1:2). Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), is the only one ever to have lived a sinless life, and now has the highest place of honor in heaven (Hebrews 7:26). Jesus and God are one in essence, Jesus being the only man who existed before physical birth (John 1:1–8; 8:56). Jesus gave Himself to us as a sacrifice, God raised Him from the dead, and one day everyone will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Philippians 2:6–11). Jesus tells us it is impossible to get to heaven by our own works and that only by faith in Him is it possible (Matthew 19:26). We all deserve eternal punishment for our sins, but God's infinite love and grace have allowed us a way out. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Excerpted from: https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html
This is a perfect example of what needs to change within Christianity to prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ... It is not helpful or unifying to Christianity in general to report someone else’s beliefs for them and to make videos or post information for them with your own criticism included.

Recently, I have been so impressed by Ephesians chapter 4. These verses come to mind: Paul says
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Understanding is what we need. Let active faithful members of the LDS Church share their own beliefs. If they say they are Christians and they try to follow the example of Jesus, why say they are lying? We would all be better off by listening and asking questions (as the Savior did) to understand others point of view than to assume we stand on higher ground than another. Those who criticize, tear down, or mock another belief with pride cannot be inspired by God. Galatians 5:22-23 teaches us: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

This is on the mormonnewroom.org


What Do We Believe About Christ?
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh (John 3:16). We accept the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament that refer directly and powerfully to the coming of the Messiah, the Savior of all humankind. We believe that Jesus of Nazareth was and is the fulfillment of those prophecies.
  • We believe the accounts of Jesus’ life and ministry recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament to be historical and truthful. For us the Jesus of history is indeed the Christ of faith. While we do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, complete or the final word of God, we accept the essential details of the Gospels and more particularly the divine witness of those men who walked and talked with Him or were mentored by His chosen apostles.
  • We believe that He was born of a virgin, Mary, in Bethlehem of Judea in what has come to be known as the meridian of time, the central point in salvation history. From His mother, Mary, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to feel the frustrations and ills of this world, including the capacity to die. We believe that Jesus was fully human in that He was subject to sickness, to pain and to temptation.
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death.
  • We believe Jesus performed miracles, including granting sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, life to some who had died and forgiveness to those steeped in sin. We believe the New Testament accounts of healings and nature miracles and the cleansing of human souls to be authentic and real.
  • We believe Jesus taught His gospel — the glad tidings or good news that salvation had come to earth through Him — in order that people might more clearly understand both their relationship to God the Father and their responsibility to each other.
  • We believe Jesus selected leaders, invested them with authority and organized a church. We maintain that the Church of Jesus Christ was established, as the Apostle Paul later wrote, for the perfection and unity of the saints (Ephesians 4:11–14).
  • We believe that Jesus’ teachings and His own matchless and perfect life provide a pattern for men and women to live by and that we must emulate that pattern as best we can to find true happiness and fulfillment in this life.
  • We believe Jesus suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and that He submitted to a cruel death on the cross of Calvary, all as a willing sacrifice, a substitutionary atonement for our sins. That offering is made efficacious as we exercise faith and trust in Him; repent of our sins; are baptized by immersion as a symbol of our acceptance of His death, burial and rise to newness of life; and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:37–38; 3 Nephi 27:19–20). While no one of us can comprehend how and in what manner one person can take upon himself the effects of the sins of another — or, even more mysteriously, the sins of all men and women — we accept and glory in the transcendent reality that Christ remits our sins through His suffering. We know it is true because we have experienced it personally. Further, we believe that He died, was buried and rose from the dead and that His resurrection was a physical reality. We believe that the effects of His rise from the tomb pass upon all men and women. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (Corinthians 15:22).
  • We do not believe that we can either overcome the flesh or gain eternal reward through our own unaided efforts. We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel to see us through the struggles of life and into life eternal (2 Nephi 31:19; Moroni 6:4). We believe that while human works are necessary— including exercising faith in Christ, repenting of our sins, receiving the sacraments or ordinances of salvation and rendering Christian service to our neighbors — they are not sufficient for salvation (2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32). We believe that our discipleship ought to be evident in the way we live our lives.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,865
29,247
113
#69
This is a perfect example of what needs to change within Christianity to prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ... It is not helpful or unifying to Christianity in general to report someone else’s beliefs for them and to make videos or post information for them with your own criticism included.

Recently, I have been so impressed by Ephesians chapter 4. These verses come to mind: Paul says
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


Understanding is what we need. Let active faithful members of the LDS Church share their own beliefs. If they say they are Christians and they try to follow the example of Jesus, why say they are lying? We would all be better off by listening and asking questions (as the Savior did) to understand others point of view than to assume we stand on higher ground than another. Those who criticize, tear down, or mock another belief with pride cannot be inspired by God. Galatians 5:22-23 teaches us: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

This is on the mormonnewroom.org


What Do We Believe About Christ?
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh (John 3:16). We accept the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament that refer directly and powerfully to the coming of the Messiah, the Savior of all humankind. We believe that Jesus of Nazareth was and is the fulfillment of those prophecies.
  • We believe the accounts of Jesus’ life and ministry recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament to be historical and truthful. For us the Jesus of history is indeed the Christ of faith. While we do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, complete or the final word of God, we accept the essential details of the Gospels and more particularly the divine witness of those men who walked and talked with Him or were mentored by His chosen apostles.
  • We believe that He was born of a virgin, Mary, in Bethlehem of Judea in what has come to be known as the meridian of time, the central point in salvation history. From His mother, Mary, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to feel the frustrations and ills of this world, including the capacity to die. We believe that Jesus was fully human in that He was subject to sickness, to pain and to temptation.
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death.
  • We believe Jesus performed miracles, including granting sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, life to some who had died and forgiveness to those steeped in sin. We believe the New Testament accounts of healings and nature miracles and the cleansing of human souls to be authentic and real.
  • We believe Jesus taught His gospel — the glad tidings or good news that salvation had come to earth through Him — in order that people might more clearly understand both their relationship to God the Father and their responsibility to each other.
  • We believe Jesus selected leaders, invested them with authority and organized a church. We maintain that the Church of Jesus Christ was established, as the Apostle Paul later wrote, for the perfection and unity of the saints (Ephesians 4:11–14).
  • We believe that Jesus’ teachings and His own matchless and perfect life provide a pattern for men and women to live by and that we must emulate that pattern as best we can to find true happiness and fulfillment in this life.
  • We believe Jesus suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and that He submitted to a cruel death on the cross of Calvary, all as a willing sacrifice, a substitutionary atonement for our sins. That offering is made efficacious as we exercise faith and trust in Him; repent of our sins; are baptized by immersion as a symbol of our acceptance of His death, burial and rise to newness of life; and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:37–38; 3 Nephi 27:19–20). While no one of us can comprehend how and in what manner one person can take upon himself the effects of the sins of another — or, even more mysteriously, the sins of all men and women — we accept and glory in the transcendent reality that Christ remits our sins through His suffering. We know it is true because we have experienced it personally. Further, we believe that He died, was buried and rose from the dead and that His resurrection was a physical reality. We believe that the effects of His rise from the tomb pass upon all men and women. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (Corinthians 15:22).
  • We do not believe that we can either overcome the flesh or gain eternal reward through our own unaided efforts. We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel to see us through the struggles of life and into life eternal (2 Nephi 31:19; Moroni 6:4). We believe that while human works are necessary— including exercising faith in Christ, repenting of our sins, receiving the sacraments or ordinances of salvation and rendering Christian service to our neighbors — they are not sufficient for salvation (2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32). We believe that our discipleship ought to be evident in the way we live our lives.
Then why are you doing it? Are you a Mormon?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#70
Zmouth asked.... What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? James 2:14
If Christ did not finish all the work of His faith it would profit us nothing.

But by a work of His faith or labor of love as that which works in us to both will and perform as a imputed righteous. It pleased the father to pour out the cup the wrath on the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

No man will be found with a righteousness of their own self . We work out the free gift of our new faith. Not work to gain it.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputingsPhilipian2:12-14

One way to reconcile works with faith seeing it all one and the same can't separate the two . Its like love an marriage can't have one without the other.... then comes the baby carriage.

Start with the right person, God, not seen or make hearing Him without effect.

Same faith of Christ (coming from) that worked in both Abraham and Rehab to both will and perform the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness. By His work that he works in us we are also called a friend of God making His faith perfect.

Note …(purple in parenthesis) my added suggestions

James 2:25 King James Version (KJV) 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith (of God) without works (of God) is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by (Christ's) works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith(Christ's) wrought with his (Christ's)works, and by works was (Christ's)faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, (the result of Christ working in him) and it (the result of Christ working in him) was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works(Christ's working in her), when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

So we do have the treasure of the faith of God that does work in us but are never to assume it is of us (the creature and not the faithful Creator.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of "us".
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#71
This is a perfect example of what needs to change within Christianity to prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ... It is not helpful or unifying to Christianity in general to report someone else’s beliefs for them and to make videos or post information for them with your own criticism included.

Recently, I have been so impressed by Ephesians chapter 4. These verses come to mind: Paul says
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Understanding is what we need. Let active faithful members of the LDS Church share their own beliefs. If they say they are Christians and they try to follow the example of Jesus, why say they are lying? We would all be better off by listening and asking questions (as the Savior did) to understand others point of view than to assume we stand on higher ground than another. Those who criticize, tear down, or mock another belief with pride cannot be inspired by God. Galatians 5:22-23 teaches us: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

This is on the mormonnewroom.org


What Do We Believe About Christ?
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh (John 3:16). We accept the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament that refer directly and powerfully to the coming of the Messiah, the Savior of all humankind. We believe that Jesus of Nazareth was and is the fulfillment of those prophecies.
  • We believe the accounts of Jesus’ life and ministry recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament to be historical and truthful. For us the Jesus of history is indeed the Christ of faith. While we do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, complete or the final word of God, we accept the essential details of the Gospels and more particularly the divine witness of those men who walked and talked with Him or were mentored by His chosen apostles.
  • We believe that He was born of a virgin, Mary, in Bethlehem of Judea in what has come to be known as the meridian of time, the central point in salvation history. From His mother, Mary, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to feel the frustrations and ills of this world, including the capacity to die. We believe that Jesus was fully human in that He was subject to sickness, to pain and to temptation.
  • We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death.
  • We believe Jesus performed miracles, including granting sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, life to some who had died and forgiveness to those steeped in sin. We believe the New Testament accounts of healings and nature miracles and the cleansing of human souls to be authentic and real.
  • We believe Jesus taught His gospel — the glad tidings or good news that salvation had come to earth through Him — in order that people might more clearly understand both their relationship to God the Father and their responsibility to each other.
  • We believe Jesus selected leaders, invested them with authority and organized a church. We maintain that the Church of Jesus Christ was established, as the Apostle Paul later wrote, for the perfection and unity of the saints (Ephesians 4:11–14).
  • We believe that Jesus’ teachings and His own matchless and perfect life provide a pattern for men and women to live by and that we must emulate that pattern as best we can to find true happiness and fulfillment in this life.
  • We believe Jesus suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and that He submitted to a cruel death on the cross of Calvary, all as a willing sacrifice, a substitutionary atonement for our sins. That offering is made efficacious as we exercise faith and trust in Him; repent of our sins; are baptized by immersion as a symbol of our acceptance of His death, burial and rise to newness of life; and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:37–38; 3 Nephi 27:19–20). While no one of us can comprehend how and in what manner one person can take upon himself the effects of the sins of another — or, even more mysteriously, the sins of all men and women — we accept and glory in the transcendent reality that Christ remits our sins through His suffering. We know it is true because we have experienced it personally. Further, we believe that He died, was buried and rose from the dead and that His resurrection was a physical reality. We believe that the effects of His rise from the tomb pass upon all men and women. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (Corinthians 15:22).
  • We do not believe that we can either overcome the flesh or gain eternal reward through our own unaided efforts. We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel to see us through the struggles of life and into life eternal (2 Nephi 31:19; Moroni 6:4). We believe that while human works are necessary— including exercising faith in Christ, repenting of our sins, receiving the sacraments or ordinances of salvation and rendering Christian service to our neighbors — they are not sufficient for salvation (2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32). We believe that our discipleship ought to be evident in the way we live our lives.
The Mormons violate the warning found at the end of the book of prophecy(the Bible) not to add to the word of God . They have another authority as their master, the oral traditions of men.(2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32).

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
 
Sep 12, 2018
26
5
3
#72
Then why are you doing it? Are you a Mormon?
Yes ma’am, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and what most of the world would define as a Christian. :) I have felt very impressed lately that I need to listen and understand others points of view. That is why I joined Christian Chat. I love talking of Jesus Christ and learning of Him. I love the Bible. I also love what the Book of Mormon adds to the Bible. I love prayer and singing praises to God. I love feeling the spirit of God teach me and others in conversations of understanding.
 
Sep 12, 2018
26
5
3
#74
The Mormons violate the warning found at the end of the book of prophecy(the Bible) not to add to the word of God . They have another authority as their master, the oral traditions of men.(2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32).

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
This might be of interest to you. I learned some good things when I heard this and it made me want to know the history of the Bible better. There is always more to learn.

One of the arguments often used in any defense of a closed canon(or that there cannot be any scripture added to the Bible) is the New Testament passage recorded in Revelation 22:18: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of … this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” However, there is now overwhelming consensus among virtually all biblical scholars that this verse applies only to the book of Revelation, not the whole Bible. Those scholars of our day acknowledge a number of New Testament “books” that were almost certainly written after John’s revelation on the Isle of Patmos was received. Included in this category are at least the books of Jude, the three Epistles of John, and probably the entire Gospel of John itself. Perhaps there are even more than these.
But there is a simpler answer as to why that passage in the final book of the current New Testament cannot apply to the whole Bible. That is because the whole Bible as we know it--one collection of texts bound in a single volume--did not exist when that verse was written. For centuries after John produced his writing, the individual books of the New Testament were in circulation singly or perhaps in combinations with a few other texts but almost never as a complete collection. Of the entire corpus of 5,366 known Greek New Testament manuscripts, only 35 contain the whole New Testament as we now know it, and 34 of those were compiled after A.D. 1000.
The fact of the matter is that virtually every prophet of the Old and New Testament has added scripture to that received by his predecessors. If the Old Testament words of Moses were sufficient, as some could have mistakenly thought them to be, then why, for example, the subsequent prophecies of Isaiah or of Jeremiah, who follows him? To say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel, of Joel, Amos, and all the rest. If one revelation to one prophet in one moment of time is sufficient for all time, what justifies these many others? What justifies them was made clear by Jehovah Himself when He said to Moses, “My works are without end, and … my words … never cease.”
One Protestant scholar (Lee M. McDonald, The formation of the biblical cannon 1995 pg 255-256) has inquired tellingly into the erroneous doctrine of a closed canon. He writes: “On what biblical or historical grounds has the inspiration of God been limited to the written documents that the church now calls its Bible? … If the Spirit inspired only the written documents of the first century, does that mean that the same Spirit does not speak today in the church about matters that are of significant concern?” We humbly ask those same questions.
Continuing revelation does not demean or discredit existing revelation. The Old Testament does not lose its value in our eyes when we are introduced to the New Testament, and the New Testament is only enhanced when we read the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. In considering the additional scripture accepted by Latter-day Saints, we might ask: Were those early Christians who for decades had access only to the primitive Gospel of Mark (generally considered the first of the New Testament Gospels to be written)--were they offended to receive the more detailed accounts set forth later by Matthew and Luke, to say nothing of the unprecedented passages and revelatory emphasis offered later yet by John? Surely they must have rejoiced that ever more convincing evidence of the divinity of Christ kept coming. And so do we rejoice.
Please do not misunderstand. We love and revere the Bible, as Elder M. Russell Ballard taught so clearly from this pulpit just one year ago. The Bible is the word of God. It is always identified first in our canon, our “standard works.” Indeed, it was a divinely ordained encounter with the fifth verse of the first chapter of the book of James that led Joseph Smith to his vision of the Father and the Son, which gave birth to the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ in our time. But even then, Joseph knew the Bible alone could not be the answer to all the religious questions he and others like him had. As he said in his own words, the ministers of his community were contending--sometimes angrily--over their doctrines. “Priest [was] contending against priest, and convert [was contending] against convert … in a strife of words and a contest about opinions,” he said. About the only thing these contending religions had in common was, ironically, a belief in the Bible, but, as Joseph wrote, “the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question [regarding which church was true] by an appeal to the Bible.” Clearly the Bible, so frequently described at that time as “common ground,” was nothing of the kind--unfortunately it was a battleground.
Thus one of the great purposes of continuing revelation through living prophets is to declare to the world through additional witnesses that the Bible is true. “This is written,” an ancient prophet said, speaking of the Book of Mormon, “for the intent that ye may believe that,” speaking of the Bible. In one of the earliest revelations received by Joseph Smith, the Lord said, “Behold, I do not bring [the Book of Mormon forth] to destroy [the Bible] but to build it up.”

Jeffery R. Holland
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#75
The Mormons violate the warning found at the end of the book of prophecy(the Bible) not to add to the word of God . They have another authority as their master, the oral traditions of men.(2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32).

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Just so I understand, when mormans have divine revelation it's wrong, but when St Paul does the exact same thing,it's ok?
So who decides which revelations are ok?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#76
Just so I understand, when mormans have divine revelation it's wrong, but when St Paul does the exact same thing,it's ok?
So who decides which revelations are ok?
The Bible decides which revelations are OK. That is, if you believe that it is the Word of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#77
That is because the whole Bible as we know it--one collection of texts bound in a single volume--did not exist when that verse was written.
That is merely your UNINFORMED OPINION. Since you were not there, you would not know.

By 96 AD (when Revelation was completed) the rest of the Bible has already been completed, and was in circulation among the apostolic churches as scrolls and manuscripts.

What John says at the end of Revelation is applicable to that book as well as the rest of Scripture. There would be no more divine revelations. And we really do not need any more. The Bible is complete and sufficient (2 Tim 3:16,17).
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#78
The Bible decides which revelations are OK.
with respect, that makes no sense at all.
the teachings of Paul were not scripture at the time of Paul, they became part of the bible many years later. who decided that?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#79
...the teachings of Paul were not scripture at the time of Paul, they became part of the bible many years later. who decided that?
You are TOTALLY MISTAKEN. Read, study, and believe 2 Peter 3:15,16.
 
Sep 12, 2018
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#80
That is merely your UNINFORMED OPINION. Since you were not there, you would not know.

By 96 AD (when Revelation was completed) the rest of the Bible has already been completed, and was in circulation among the apostolic churches as scrolls and manuscripts.

What John says at the end of Revelation is applicable to that book as well as the rest of Scripture. There would be no more divine revelations. And we really do not need any more. The Bible is complete and sufficient (2 Tim 3:16,17).

This is a great scripture you quoted.
2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

In my own studies of history, I have sought for truth. I am not interested much in opinion. If you would like to give me some good references from your own study of the subject, I enjoy questioning things and looking for answers. It has been a wonderful way to be taught by those who know much more than I.
Thank you for expressing your feeling though. I went and did a mini study on the topic which was interesting. It appears that there are some who agree with you about Revelations being completed in 96 AD. However, it appears from most sources a range from 90AD to 96AD which suggest it isn’t exactly known. However, that really isn’t the point. The point is that Revelations was most likely not the last book written, nor was the Bible all compiled by 96AD. The references I just look through on Wikipedia list the gospel of John, the epistles of John, Acts, the Timothy’s, and second Peter as being written as late at 110 AD.
When, I looked through the references on Wikipedia, I went to a couple from Cambridge university. What I read appeared to Christians who appreciate the Bible who are studying its history to understand it better. Instead of opinion, they seem to be seeking understanding which I greatly value.