John 6:38-39. The fact that Christ died only for those that God gave him and he will not loose, not even one of them, but raise them up at the last day proves that all that are saved (salvation is secured on the cross) will go to heaven. (OSAS). Rom 10:, deals with children of God who are lacking in a knowledge of the truth and tells them how they can be (delivered=saved) from that lack of knowledge by following his teachings to come to the knowledge of the truth. This salvation is not eternal, but a deliverance that they can receive here on earth. The main thing that trips everyone up on this forum is not being able to tell the difference between the two different deliverance. Scriptures that use the words, believe, confess, accept etc. are talking to disobedient children of God.
Why so much confusion about salvation?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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1 John 3:9 is describing a saved elect person. Our sin is not counted against us, we are not described as sinners because we don't deliberately sin. We sin because we lost the battle against temptation regularly, we don't have the ultimate victory over sin while we live in our corrupt fallen bodies of death.
The elect of God are not described as sinners, even though we do sin we are not given over to our sin so it cannot dominate us as it does the reprobate. The reprobate sin continually, even their best works are as filthy rags in Gods sight. Christ paid for all of our past, present and all future sins so we have nothing to worry about.
This doesn't mean that we just give ourselves over to our lust and sin without restraint, we resist the temptation to sin as much as we can but of' course we lost the battle many times every day. So we will never lose our salvation, no matter how much we sin. Christ has paid for ever single sin so we can really enjoy life with no fear of punishment at all.
I know that many "Christians" don't believe what the Bible says because it doesn't conform to their fallen sinful minds, so they refuse to accept what the bible says. You can't deny or change anything that God has done through His Son to save His elect, all of the non elect have a big problem with God's sovereignty over all things. They try to limit Him so they can steal some of His glory from Him but He will show them no mercy for this wickedness.
Well you can make the Bible say anything you want it to, but I'm saying we should let the Bible interpret the Bible. The biggest mistake folks make is pluck out verses in isolation and apply them to suit their particular view about a doctrine.
We must consider the whole counsel of the Lord when we interpret scripture, it's ludicrous to suggest that we are saved by our works. As a Saint of God, I do good works out of obedience and thankfulness. I don't do them to be saved because I'm already saved, you can say faith without works is dead and I can say works without faith is dead.
S..,
you have presented no qualifying support for such belief because the Bible...KJV...1611...does not give such support.
What you list is just some chosen references...with no validation of OSAS ...which is relatively new...out of the 1960's era...... of morally and social corrupt behavior.
Hi Preston, here are a few verses/passages that come to mind about this. Do these verses qualify? (not necessarily as support of OSAS, and what it has come to mean in some circles today, but I certainly believe they do for the Augustinian/Reformed original version of OSAS, which is most commonly referred to as the "perseverance/preservation of the saints"). If not, then why not??
.........John 5
.........24 ..Uerily, verily I say vnto you, Hee that heareth my word, & beleeueth on him that sent mee, HATH euerlasting life, and shall
.........not come into condemnation: but is passed from death vnto life.
.........John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
.........All that the Father giueth Mee, shall come to Mee; and .. of all which He hath giuen Mee, I should lose NOTHING, but should raise
.........it vp againe at the last day.
.........John 10
.........27 ..My sheepe heare my voyce, and I know them, and they follow me.
.........28 ..And I giue vnto them eternall life, and they shall NEUER perish, neither shall any man plucke them out of my hand.
.........1 John 5
.........13 ..These things haue I written vnto you that beleeue on the Name of the Sonne of God, that ye may know, that ye haue
.........eternall life.
Thanks!
~Deut
It's actually quite sad to see some who profess to be Christians, yet they don't trust the Lord to save them from their sins.
If you believe that you save yourself by obeying God's commands to do good works, then you may lose your salvation because you failed to keep the commandments. But if you believe what the Bible says, that salvation is of the Lord then you can only lose your salvation if the Lord fails to save you.
So you need to choose what you believe, do you believe that you are saved by obeying Gods commands or do you believe that you are saved by God. I'm asking what you believe about salvation, it all boils down to free choice or election. You must choose one of these options then I can place you into either Calvinism or Arminianism but you can't sit on the fence!!!
More of your logical fallacies...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
The readon of confusion. Is Satan and his demons try to twist God’s Word, often while masquerading as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). But God gave us the Bible to teach us about Him and His ways, and since God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33)
If we only study the Bible we don't have confusion about our salvation.
If we only study the Bible we don't have confusion about our salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
People want to place people under these “ISMS” and not listen to what they say, When people do that, they are followers of men, Not God.
Yes Molinism is just another one of the 40,000 false sects, cults and religions calling themselves "Christian".
I belong to a non denominational Church, where God is the only authority and His Word is our only guide. Jesus said that many would come in His name and deceive many. We can see this happening today, where over 90% of those who call themselves "Christian" are actually reprobate.
Jesus said the road that leads to life is narrow and few find it and the road that leads to destruction is brad and many go by it. This is why my Church is so small and rare, we allow God to lead us and we don't add or take anything away from His perfect Word.
^ "The Two Goats of Leviticus 16" [Section 6--scroll down (see also Sections 7, 8, 9, and 10)]
http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892#THE TWO GOATS OF LEVITICUS 16
Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism explains this...
http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892#THE TWO GOATS OF LEVITICUS 16
Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism explains this...
For a time now you have said you belong to a reformed church and now you are saying you belong to a non denominational church ?
if we are in the millennial kingdom now and everyone's judgment has already been finalized who are those who will be judged after this millennial age ends and why are they spoken of as raised in the second Resurrection and then judged as though not all judgment is finalized?
The true Reformed Church is not a denominational Church, there may be some who call themselves reformed but they are not. A true Reformed Church is free and autonomous, we don't answer to any human. The only One we answer to is God Himself, nobody tells us what to do or how to do it.
The proper Biblical Church model is autonomous and independent, all of the denominational and congregational Churches are false apostate Churches.
i suppose the difference is in that some see that every sin is forgiven whether past present or future and it makes no difference if we say that we prophesied(A or E?) or cast out demons in his name. Some will be raised in the second Resurrection and then judged(has power over the 2'nd and not the 1'st) and it would all make sense if all were judged beforehand,,,,but some judged after the mill. seems to negate that word of doctrine....
Calvin is one of your authorities and guides. Telling the truth to another one of your lies
That's funny, given that you go around pretending you have authority over others, telling them what is right and wrong and what to believe, as if you had all the answers, since you claim to know everything there is to know about God, while at the same time, you admit you have never heard from God, and claim that God no longer speaks to people. You should consider the possibility of not being one of His sheep if you have not heard His voice.
If you knew the basics of the Bible, you would agree with me. There are many evil Spirits speaking to people and they think they are speaking with God, that's why we have so much deception in the Church today.
The Bible tells us that they come as Angels of light, to deceive the world. Gods last words to making were "it is finished" Jesus said that on the cross when He finished the work of saving His elect. Jesus didn't come to offer salvation to everyone, He came to save those who were chosen before the world was made.
God said everything He wanted to say, in the Bible. So if anyone comes along and claims to have heard extra revelation, we know it's from the Devil and not from God since God ceased speaking 2000 years ago. Us sheep hear His voice today, through His spoken Word which is still alive and well to this day and it always will be for all the future generations.
God's Word is a living thing, it has the power to save people and change the lives of His chosen sheep. God's Word is only for the elect, it wasn't given to the reprobate so they will never hear His Word because it's foolishness to them.
So much deception in the church except yours, huh? Satan is deceiving the whole world but not you, right? I believe I understand your meaning quite well enough LOL. Having a personal relationship with God, being called out of the world... these are personal empirical experiences people have with the LIVING Lord. Jesus did not stop interacting with the world on the cross. Anyone who tells you He did is lying to you, and you have been deceived to believe it. BTW, talking to God is called "prayer." Perhaps you should try it
