No Eternal Security = No Salvation?
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The answer depends on if you are Calvinist or Arminian. Item 5.
Calvinism
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Unconditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. Resistible grace
5. Falling from Grac
Calvinism
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Unconditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. Resistible grace
5. Falling from Grac
Think about it. Someone who says they're Christian when asked to explain further and doesn't believe it is eternal security guaranteed by the blood sacrifice of Christ they're talking about has to answer, I'm saved! Kinda.
Not for nothing, but the poop emote is really gross. Only in America would we create for retail marketing a diarrhea plop with features.
Not for nothing, but the poop emote is really gross. Only in America would we create for retail marketing a diarrhea plop with features.
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Think about it. Someone who says they're Christian when asked to explain further and doesn't believe it is eternal security guaranteed by the blood sacrifice of Christ they're talking about has to answer, I'm saved! Kinda.
Not for nothing, but the poop emote is really gross. Only in America would we create for retail marketing a diarrhea plop with features.
Not for nothing, but the poop emote is really gross. Only in America would we create for retail marketing a diarrhea plop with features.
2 Corinthians 1:
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Ephesians 1:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
According to 2 Cor 1:21, it is God Who establishes us in Christ and God Who anointed us, sealed us, and gave the earnest [Gr. arrabōn = down payment] of the Spirit in our hearts.
According to Eph 1:13 we were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest [Gr. arrabōn = down payment] of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession [still future].
Where in Scripture are we told that God removes the seal?
Where in Scripture are we told that God decides not to follow through or complete His redemption of the purchased possession?
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Ephesians 1:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
According to 2 Cor 1:21, it is God Who establishes us in Christ and God Who anointed us, sealed us, and gave the earnest [Gr. arrabōn = down payment] of the Spirit in our hearts.
According to Eph 1:13 we were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest [Gr. arrabōn = down payment] of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession [still future].
Where in Scripture are we told that God removes the seal?
Where in Scripture are we told that God decides not to follow through or complete His redemption of the purchased possession?
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Ok! Here's the "sccop!" Many "believers", who believe and have accepted the sacrifice by the God, and Father, of Jesus Christ, and are "pressing on" to the Father, are (how can I say) traveling, and in ALL cases travailing, where, and when, the "road gets narrower" and, the Gate becomes "straiter!"
Now, when this happens? The (for lack of a better word) pilgrim (soul), who steadfastly believes, their travels are as justified, pressing onwards, as they are, In Christ!
And? This is well and good, as far as ones' "Being In Christ" goes! And, "MANDATED! However! When the road becomes "narrower?" And, the "chaff starts getting separated from the wheat?" (Jehovah my Shepherd, in Spiritual growth) The pilgrim, becoming more and more "naked?" is (how can I say...again) made AWARE, of various "aspects/facets/charateristics?" (or, let's call these SHEEPS), which one "may consider" "as baggage" (but are not), are trying to go onwards WITH the pilgrim TO the Father!
This is the reason for seeing so "many" different (as you say) Gospels! And/or "denominations!"
People, at various times during the course of this earth/heaven age, have, to put it simply, just "stopped" traveling! Deciding (I guess), that they have reached the "end of the road!" And, either, "self righteously", or by way of "famine of the end times", "delusion", or "deception", "seduction", or "beguilement", "vanity": Have "staked a claim!" Started a Church! Sent out missionary's! etc. etc. Yet, NEVER, in their self righteousness, allowed themselves in furthering their own spiritual maturing, in their ALLOWING God's MANDATE, of "NO ONE COMES UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME!" Stated by Christ: Into either be "cut" from one's own "flock of sheeps", or, to "accept the mandate", by going in by the "Sheep Gate!" This is how, and where the "adding of one's own RIGHTEOUSNESS" is done, when seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
(foot note)....This really gets "hairy/scary", when the pilgrims own emotions and feeling (heart), start traveling the "strait and narrow!" Especially, when it comes to "dealing with, and within a "darkened world!"
Many "believers", who believe and have accepted the sacrifice by the God, and Father, of Jesus Christ, and are "pressing on" to the Father, are (how can I say) traveling, and in ALL cases travailing, where, and when, the "road gets narrower" and, the Gate becomes "straiter!" Now, when this happens? The (for lack of a better word) pilgrim (soul), who steadfastly believes, their travels are as justified, pressing onwards, as they are, In Christ!
And? This is well and good, as far as ones' "Being In Christ" goes! And, "MANDATED! However! When the road becomes "narrower?" And, the "chaff starts getting separated from the wheat?" (Jehovah my Shepherd, in Spiritual growth) The pilgrim, becoming more and more "naked?" is (how can I say...again
) made AWARE, of various "aspects/facets/charateristics?" (or, let's call these SHEEPS), which one "may consider" "as baggage" (but are not), are trying to go onwards WITH the pilgrim TO the Father!This is the reason for seeing so "many" different (as you say) Gospels! And/or "denominations!"
People, at various times during the course of this earth/heaven age, have, to put it simply, just "stopped" traveling! Deciding (I guess), that they have reached the "end of the road!" And, either, "self righteously", or by way of "famine of the end times", "delusion", or "deception", "seduction", or "beguilement", "vanity": Have "staked a claim!" Started a Church! Sent out missionary's! etc. etc. Yet, NEVER, in their self righteousness, allowed themselves in furthering their own spiritual maturing, in their ALLOWING God's MANDATE, of "NO ONE COMES UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME!" Stated by Christ: Into either be "cut" from one's own "flock of sheeps", or, to "accept the mandate", by going in by the "Sheep Gate!" This is how, and where the "adding of one's own RIGHTEOUSNESS" is done, when seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
(foot note)....This really gets "hairy/scary", when the pilgrims own emotions and feeling (heart), start traveling the "strait and narrow!" Especially, when it comes to "dealing with, and within a "darkened world!"
They "didn't" lose that salvation, EG! But, a "part" of them, usually, when it comes to emotions and feelings, may not feel as "Joyful in the Lord", as they, even in their own minds, picture others, "projected, or real" joyfulness in the Lord! Which gives cause, even erroneously, in one's feeling a "sense" of loss of Salvation!
Usually, not something one can "work through", in a group setting! whether it be an assemblage of believers, in some church of stone, or even in some venue, such as an open forum!
Generally, it comes from one's own inability of forgiving oneself! Not "content" with, nor, darst I say, should be content with the "forgiveness" of sin, that comes with accepting Christ as High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer!
Some of these emotions and feelings have been so "intertwined" with the "guilt and oppression" satan puts onto, into one, as they can only be healed (or harvested, if you will), in "short, strategically placed, incrementally executed" "spiritual surgeries." Or? Circumcisions, if you will!
It HAS to be done this way, as a "hard circumcision" would MOST CERTAINLY, KILL THE PATIENT! Or "Wheat", as it is referred to in the Bible.
Is this indicative of one's "loss" of Salvation? Certainly not! It's one's striving to be as "fully harvested" as one can be!
Even one's refusal in the allowing of this harvesting does not make one's soul damned to the lake of fire! But, it does make for one's being "carried over" into the "next" earth/heaven age!
Although, one's that are content with "sticking a band-aid" over these scars, and carry on like "there's nothing to see here" (so move on), may not have as close a "front row" in heaven, as they would like everyone else to believe they have!
E
Ok! Here's the "sccop!" Many "believers", who believe and have accepted the sacrifice by the God, and Father, of Jesus Christ, and are "pressing on" to the Father, are (how can I say) traveling, and in ALL cases travailing, where, and when, the "road gets narrower" and, the Gate becomes "straiter!"
Now, when this happens? The (for lack of a better word) pilgrim (soul), who steadfastly believes, their travels are as justified, pressing onwards, as they are, In Christ!
And? This is well and good, as far as ones' "Being In Christ" goes! And, "MANDATED! However! When the road becomes "narrower?" And, the "chaff starts getting separated from the wheat?" (Jehovah my Shepherd, in Spiritual growth) The pilgrim, becoming more and more "naked?" is (how can I say...again) made AWARE, of various "aspects/facets/charateristics?" (or, let's call these SHEEPS), which one "may consider" "as baggage" (but are not), are trying to go onwards WITH the pilgrim TO the Father!
This is the reason for seeing so "many" different (as you say) Gospels! And/or "denominations!"
People, at various times during the course of this earth/heaven age, have, to put it simply, just "stopped" traveling! Deciding (I guess), that they have reached the "end of the road!" And, either, "self righteously", or by way of "famine of the end times", "delusion", or "deception", "seduction", or "beguilement", "vanity": Have "staked a claim!" Started a Church! Sent out missionary's! etc. etc. Yet, NEVER, in their self righteousness, allowed themselves in furthering their own spiritual maturing, in their ALLOWING God's MANDATE, of "NO ONE COMES UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME!" Stated by Christ: Into either be "cut" from one's own "flock of sheeps", or, to "accept the mandate", by going in by the "Sheep Gate!" This is how, and where the "adding of one's own RIGHTEOUSNESS" is done, when seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
(foot note)....This really gets "hairy/scary", when the pilgrims own emotions and feeling (heart), start traveling the "strait and narrow!" Especially, when it comes to "dealing with, and within a "darkened world!"
Many "believers", who believe and have accepted the sacrifice by the God, and Father, of Jesus Christ, and are "pressing on" to the Father, are (how can I say) traveling, and in ALL cases travailing, where, and when, the "road gets narrower" and, the Gate becomes "straiter!" Now, when this happens? The (for lack of a better word) pilgrim (soul), who steadfastly believes, their travels are as justified, pressing onwards, as they are, In Christ!
And? This is well and good, as far as ones' "Being In Christ" goes! And, "MANDATED! However! When the road becomes "narrower?" And, the "chaff starts getting separated from the wheat?" (Jehovah my Shepherd, in Spiritual growth) The pilgrim, becoming more and more "naked?" is (how can I say...again
) made AWARE, of various "aspects/facets/charateristics?" (or, let's call these SHEEPS), which one "may consider" "as baggage" (but are not), are trying to go onwards WITH the pilgrim TO the Father!This is the reason for seeing so "many" different (as you say) Gospels! And/or "denominations!"
People, at various times during the course of this earth/heaven age, have, to put it simply, just "stopped" traveling! Deciding (I guess), that they have reached the "end of the road!" And, either, "self righteously", or by way of "famine of the end times", "delusion", or "deception", "seduction", or "beguilement", "vanity": Have "staked a claim!" Started a Church! Sent out missionary's! etc. etc. Yet, NEVER, in their self righteousness, allowed themselves in furthering their own spiritual maturing, in their ALLOWING God's MANDATE, of "NO ONE COMES UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME!" Stated by Christ: Into either be "cut" from one's own "flock of sheeps", or, to "accept the mandate", by going in by the "Sheep Gate!" This is how, and where the "adding of one's own RIGHTEOUSNESS" is done, when seeking the Kingdom of God, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
(foot note)....This really gets "hairy/scary", when the pilgrims own emotions and feeling (heart), start traveling the "strait and narrow!" Especially, when it comes to "dealing with, and within a "darkened world!"
it is another thing to say those who stop are no longer sons (have lost salvation) because this is another gospel. it says we have to work (continue to travel) if we are to maintaitn salvation or keep it.
No one is arguingn that there are different aspects of sanctification.
There are some who will reach super maturity status like Paul
There are some, like the corinthian church who remain babes in christ, continuing to need milk, because they can not yet hande the meat.
Most of us probably fall somewhere inbetween.
Yet all of us are children.
The gospel was the same for all of the above, they were saved by grace through faith. Salvation is not based on how well or how much we obtain sanctification, it is based on Gods love, his promises and his death.
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I reckon we all "march to the beat" of whichever "drum" one allows to "beat" in their heads, EG!
The "drummer" I hear, starts in Rev. 1: about verse 10 - through chapter 3. This, is what keeps me "pressing onwards!
And, I'm not saying you don't!
On the other hand, it sounds like you are saying it's alright for milk eaters to remain milk eaters! Even though Jesus is quoted as saying in Luke 21:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Me? I don't like "woe!" I have, and have had enough woe in this life! To the point, I don't want any more woe! In this life, nor the one to come! I suspect however, that should I put "want" in one hand, and "spit" in the other? I know which hand would fill up first!
To me? The WHOLE PURPOSE of the Bible, is getting the "finite mind" of a "pilgrim", in this "flash bulb" of a life on earth, "equipped and ready", for a life and "ruling with", and IN eternity!
Of "which" our Father in Heaven, in giving His "children" the "benefit of the doubt", has the foresight, in locking up satan for 1,000 years! Yes EG? Even to helping the "milk eaters" "way", less treacherous!
Me, however, being as "cynical" as I am? Have my doubts, as far as how much teachings and disciplines will stick, to these "milk eaters!" When satan is again released for a "season!"
But? To Him, by and for His good pleasure, and Council, has mandated such decrees to and for His "children?" Be glory and honor forever and ever!
Amen!
But?....That's just "me!"
E
I reckon we all "march to the beat" of whichever "drum" one allows to "beat" in their heads, EG!
The "drummer" I hear, starts in Rev. 1: about verse 10 - through chapter 3. This, is what keeps me "pressing onwards!
And, I'm not saying you don't!
On the other hand, it sounds like you are saying it's alright for milk eaters to remain milk eaters! Even though Jesus is quoted as saying in Luke 21:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Me? I don't like "woe!" I have, and have had enough woe in this life! To the point, I don't want any more woe! In this life, nor the one to come! I suspect however, that should I put "want" in one hand, and "spit" in the other? I know which hand would fill up first!
To me? The WHOLE PURPOSE of the Bible, is getting the "finite mind" of a "pilgrim", in this "flash bulb" of a life on earth, "equipped and ready", for a life and "ruling with", and IN eternity!
Of "which" our Father in Heaven, in giving His "children" the "benefit of the doubt", has the foresight, in locking up satan for 1,000 years! Yes EG? Even to helping the "milk eaters" "way", less treacherous!
Me, however, being as "cynical" as I am? Have my doubts, as far as how much teachings and disciplines will stick, to these "milk eaters!" When satan is again released for a "season!"
But? To Him, by and for His good pleasure, and Council, has mandated such decrees to and for His "children?" Be glory and honor forever and ever!
Amen!
But?....That's just "me!"
The "drummer" I hear, starts in Rev. 1: about verse 10 - through chapter 3. This, is what keeps me "pressing onwards!
And, I'm not saying you don't!
On the other hand, it sounds like you are saying it's alright for milk eaters to remain milk eaters! Even though Jesus is quoted as saying in Luke 21:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Me? I don't like "woe!" I have, and have had enough woe in this life! To the point, I don't want any more woe! In this life, nor the one to come! I suspect however, that should I put "want" in one hand, and "spit" in the other? I know which hand would fill up first!
To me? The WHOLE PURPOSE of the Bible, is getting the "finite mind" of a "pilgrim", in this "flash bulb" of a life on earth, "equipped and ready", for a life and "ruling with", and IN eternity!
Of "which" our Father in Heaven, in giving His "children" the "benefit of the doubt", has the foresight, in locking up satan for 1,000 years! Yes EG? Even to helping the "milk eaters" "way", less treacherous!
Me, however, being as "cynical" as I am? Have my doubts, as far as how much teachings and disciplines will stick, to these "milk eaters!" When satan is again released for a "season!"
But? To Him, by and for His good pleasure, and Council, has mandated such decrees to and for His "children?" Be glory and honor forever and ever!
Amen!
But?....That's just "me!"
But if your saying they will lose their salvation. We have serious issues.
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Jesus is the gate and the gate does not change.
There is no statement that the road becomes more narrow either.
And now I want to ask why is your avatar one of nuns holding guns? Is there some deeper meaning I am missing?
There is no statement that the road becomes more narrow either.
And now I want to ask why is your avatar one of nuns holding guns? Is there some deeper meaning I am missing?
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I reckon we all "march to the beat" of whichever "drum" one allows to "beat" in their heads, EG!
The "drummer" I hear, starts in Rev. 1: about verse 10 - through chapter 3. This, is what keeps me "pressing onwards!
And, I'm not saying you don't!
On the other hand, it sounds like you are saying it's alright for milk eaters to remain milk eaters! Even though Jesus is quoted as saying in Luke 21:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Me? I don't like "woe!" I have, and have had enough woe in this life! To the point, I don't want any more woe! In this life, nor the one to come! I suspect however, that should I put "want" in one hand, and "spit" in the other? I know which hand would fill up first!
To me? The WHOLE PURPOSE of the Bible, is getting the "finite mind" of a "pilgrim", in this "flash bulb" of a life on earth, "equipped and ready", for a life and "ruling with", and IN eternity!
Of "which" our Father in Heaven, in giving His "children" the "benefit of the doubt", has the foresight, in locking up satan for 1,000 years! Yes EG? Even to helping the "milk eaters" "way", less treacherous!
Me, however, being as "cynical" as I am? Have my doubts, as far as how much teachings and disciplines will stick, to these "milk eaters!" When satan is again released for a "season!"
But? To Him, by and for His good pleasure, and Council, has mandated such decrees to and for His "children?" Be glory and honor forever and ever!
Amen!
But?....That's just "me!"
The "drummer" I hear, starts in Rev. 1: about verse 10 - through chapter 3. This, is what keeps me "pressing onwards!
And, I'm not saying you don't!
On the other hand, it sounds like you are saying it's alright for milk eaters to remain milk eaters! Even though Jesus is quoted as saying in Luke 21:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Me? I don't like "woe!" I have, and have had enough woe in this life! To the point, I don't want any more woe! In this life, nor the one to come! I suspect however, that should I put "want" in one hand, and "spit" in the other? I know which hand would fill up first!
To me? The WHOLE PURPOSE of the Bible, is getting the "finite mind" of a "pilgrim", in this "flash bulb" of a life on earth, "equipped and ready", for a life and "ruling with", and IN eternity!
Of "which" our Father in Heaven, in giving His "children" the "benefit of the doubt", has the foresight, in locking up satan for 1,000 years! Yes EG? Even to helping the "milk eaters" "way", less treacherous!
Me, however, being as "cynical" as I am? Have my doubts, as far as how much teachings and disciplines will stick, to these "milk eaters!" When satan is again released for a "season!"
But? To Him, by and for His good pleasure, and Council, has mandated such decrees to and for His "children?" Be glory and honor forever and ever!
Amen!
But?....That's just "me!"
Why don't you know that you are saved? Have you not received Christ?
Also, your writing style is way too cryptic for me. It might make sense to you, but I suspect for most the points you try and make are lost in translation.
And what about those nuns?
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These conversations often boil down to "How much can I sin and get away with it?". And when this charge is laid, the two parties respond accordingly:
The OSAS side claims that individual was never truly saved, if his life shows no fruit of the Spirit and no changed life at all.
The youcanloseyoursalvation side claims that the individual was indeed saved, but sinned too much and now has lost his salvation. (The amount of how much sin is too much is rarely mentioned, or discussed).
I am somewhere in the middle, I believe that a born again individual will produce fruit, and his life will be one of obedience, rather than disobedience.
There are only two ways one walks, in the flesh or in the spirit, in disobedience or obedience. The bible tells us what produces what:
Romans 6:12-17
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
The OSAS side claims that individual was never truly saved, if his life shows no fruit of the Spirit and no changed life at all.
The youcanloseyoursalvation side claims that the individual was indeed saved, but sinned too much and now has lost his salvation. (The amount of how much sin is too much is rarely mentioned, or discussed).
I am somewhere in the middle, I believe that a born again individual will produce fruit, and his life will be one of obedience, rather than disobedience.
There are only two ways one walks, in the flesh or in the spirit, in disobedience or obedience. The bible tells us what produces what:
Romans 6:12-17
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.