Where do believers go after death?

[JohnRH]

The context of that small passage is key, it is about remembrance and being reminded often.
Peter made it clear that they already know, yet it was important that he keeps reminding them even what they knew. It is more like the urge to meditate upon the word of God day and night. The importance of being reminded what we already know is the message here and it does not stop at death but continues after death.

If Peter was only making the effort while still alive, what difference does it make to remind them often what they already know? it is not like if you are reminded so often you might forget if you a time comes that you are not reminded regularly. It is the meditation in our souls of what we know that keeps us afloat and that meditation in our inner most parts is what David has talked about in Psalms 103- it is the spirits of resurrected believers.

Every time we read 2 Peter or any other part of the Bible we are reminded of its contents. We need to be reminded regularly because we do forget. Peter and the other human writers of divinely-inspired Scripture left these reminders in written form only.

 

[Zmouth]

I don't know what necromancy means but i'll surely check it out.

It is the act wherein a person claims of being able to speak to the dead.

 

[Zmouth]

"I will come to you" is a reference to Jesus' resurrection.
The Holy Spirit now indwells living believers. Jesus now is in heaven at the right hand of the Father.

So if the Holy Spirit indwells the flesh of those who believed, then what did you do to the spirit of the believer you now indwells?

While two objects of mass can not occupy the same space at the same time, then can two pnuemas occupy the same body of mass at the same time?

 

[JaumeJ]

But this doesn't sound like sleeping:

2 Peter 1:12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

Peter is not making any reference to teaching from his earned res, he is saying he will do all he is able to teache them , while he lives is inferred.

If I say, I will bless you, this does not mean after I die or after this email, it simply means I will bless you, . I could just as easily add now to the phrse of intent, I will bless you now.......All blessings in Jesus Christ.

 

[Noose]

"I will come to you" is a reference to Jesus' resurrection.
The Holy Spirit now indwells living believers. Jesus now is in heaven at the right hand of the Father.

Just read that verse again and again, you obviously did not understand what is being said.

 

[Noose]

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The punishment happens on earth. God's people are told told to enter their chambers and close their doors until this indignation is over.

The whole of that passage is about the dead in Christ and even the punishment on earth dwellers is because they killed the dead in Christ. The dead in Christ are raised and they are told to lock themselves in their rooms until the wrath is over; those rooms are obviously here on earth so it is up to you to reason out exactly what is being said here.

 

[Noose]

Peter is not making any reference to teaching from his earned res, he is saying he will do all he is able to teache them , while he lives is inferred.

If I say, I will bless you, this does not mean after I die or after this email, it simply means I will bless you, . I could just as easily add now to the phrse of intent, I will bless you now.......All blessings in Jesus Christ.

Adding 'now' would completely change the meaning and your analogy is not 100% in line with what Peter says. It would sound better if you said; "..it is important that i bless you often even though you are already blessed..."

This means that the act of blessing MUST somehow be continuous regardless of your condition, because the moment i stop (even at death), its relevance is lost.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Right.
In my understanding of Psalm 103, David describes his own soul as a heavenly host. Those that are resurrected are a joyful assembly in his soul. I'm not sure but that's what i get.

Hi Noose, that is a unique understanding of Psalm 103. King David is exceedingly glad in the Lord and in His great blessings, and he reminds himself (reminds his "soul") in this Psalm of all there is to praise Him for.

"All that is within me/all my inmost soul" is in reference to Deuteronomy 6:5's (or in the NT, Mark 12:30's):

........."YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL .........YOUR STRENGTH.’"

IOW, I do not believe he is describing his soul and all that is within him in terms of a heavenly host there.

And at the end of the Psalm he calls all of God's creatures, heavenly and earthly, to rejoice and praise the Lord with him

~Deut

 

[Noose]

If anybody pays attention to the tense being used in these texts then it is not a far off thing to say that resurrection is something that is continuous.

Heb 12:22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23 in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

1 Cor 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Why does Paul talk as if resurrection is a continuous thing as opposed to some future mega event?

 

[Noose]

Hi Noose, that is a unique understanding of Psalm 103. King David is exceedingly glad in the Lord and in His great blessings, and he reminds himself (reminds his "soul") in this Psalm of all there is to praise Him for.

"All that is within me/all my inmost soul" is in reference to Deuteronomy 6:5's (or in the NT, Mark 12:30's):

........."YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL .........YOUR STRENGTH.’"

IOW, I do not believe he is describing his soul and all that is within him in terms of a heavenly host there.

And at the end of the Psalm he calls all of God's creatures, heavenly and earthly, to rejoice and praise the Lord with him

~Deut

But how do you explain this:

Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

 

[JohnRH]

So if the Holy Spirit indwells the flesh of those who believed, then what did you do to the spirit of the believer you now indwells?

While two objects of mass can not occupy the same space at the same time, then can two pnuemas occupy the same body of mass at the same time?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Flesh, objects, space, & mass have nothing to do with it because the person's spirit and the indwelt Holy Spirit are non material. I have my spirit and I have the indwelt Holy Spirit. I'm not Him and He's not me.

 

[JaumeJ]

Adding 'now' would completely change the meaning and your analogy is not 100% in line with what Peter says. It would sound better if you said; "..it is important that i bless you often even though you are already blessed..."

This means that the act of blessing MUST somehow be continuous regardless of your condition, because the moment i stop (even at death), its relevance is lost.

If you say I will do somethig it is not necessarily in the far or distand future,. In the quote you posted Peter is put the condition on the action of the following verb in the sentence and it may be understood he is sstressing he will do his best to get all accomplished..........it does not mean after he goes to sleep, it means before. It does not need any specification, it is understood, especially since we know his and our Lord and Savior is the Firstborn of the dead.......Natuallay all who die inthe flesh will follow come the resurrection, including Peter and the other Apostles..

 

[Noose]

If you say I will do somethig it is not necessarily in the far or distand future,. In the quote you posted Peter is put the condition on the action of the following verb in the sentence and it may be understood he is sstressing he will do his best to get all accomplished..........it does not mean after he goes to sleep, it means before. It does not need any specification, it is understood, especially since we know his and our Lord and Savior is the Firstborn of the dead.......Natuallay all who die inthe flesh will follow come the resurrection, including Peter and the other Apostles..

2 Peter 1:
12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

16For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”b 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

19We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Main points of interest

1. The people that Peter was reminding were already established in truth in all that Peter was talking about yet he still thought it was good to keep reminding them as if it was a duty. Duty doesn't stop, if it stops then no one can promise the same outcome- but Peter here is confidently promising the same outcome even after his departure (death).

2. Peter compares the promise by Jesus and its fruition as something true that they witnessed first hand. He compares his teachings to Jesus's promises and assures them that they will materialize in them (even if not physically like Jesus) but it will dawn in them.

Paul also said the same thing here:


2 Cor 4:
5For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”b Since we have that same spirit ofc faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

In summary, Paul is saying Jesus believed and spoke to them (Paul and the Apostles) and they also believed and spoke to their listeners and it is for their listeners benefit that they die because the words they have spoken will dawn in the listeners hearts as the rising sun. He says to them (Apostles) their work is death but it is life to their listeners. IOW, Paul is saying they will live in their listeners.

 

[JaumeJ]

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

An epistle of Paul...........

 

[Noose]

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

An epistle of Paul...........

And why is Paul counting himself amongst those who are alive when the dead arise???

 

[JaumeJ]

And why is Paul counting himself amongst those who are alive when the dead arise???

I want you to understand something, I am not trying to convince you to think what I think........it is not important, . What is important is our Salvation in Jesus Christ.

As for Paul "counting" himself alive, simple, he was alive when he sent this epistle. Everyone understands this to be so.

Now I pray you are blessed but I cannot pursue this further.......thank you.

 

[Magenta]

The reference to a great cloud of witnesses is about the historical examples we have of the people of our faith (in scripture). People of faith, who used their faith to accomplish the impossible, because they believed God. Literally Hebrews 11 is a list of the great examples of faith (we have) that preceded us. People we can learn from and be inspired by.

You are also part of the great cloud of witnesses!

 

[Noose]

I want you to understand something, I am not trying to convince you to think what I think........it is not important, . What is important is our Salvation in Jesus Christ.

As for Paul "counting" himself alive, simple, he was alive when he sent this epistle. Everyone understands this to be so.

Now I pray you are blessed but I cannot pursue this further.......thank you.

Not a very convincing answer but thanks. We actually don't need to agree on this issue and you are right, the most important thing is salvation in Christ.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Bless God I am going to be right where I am now when I leave this present evil world . . . where my dear late wife is presently - waiting for me!

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come" (Ephesians 1:17-21).

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-7).

 

[DianaO]

We return to God. Ecclesiastes 12.