I have said before. I do not study Calvin's writings or any other man's interpretation of the scriptures. The inspired scriptures of the KJV are my only source of study and are sufficient to prove themselves, with no contradictions.
Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone
- Thread starter Slayer
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David said blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity. Where does that leave you?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Responding to the the Title of the OP:
Why I believe that God loves his created mankind and is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Why I believe that God loves his created mankind and is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
- “For God so loved the world…” John 3:16. This is the intensity of the loved of God that he “so loved” God’s love is so great for it characterize his very own nation “for God is love…”
- 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
- 1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. This love is limitless, it has no measure. It’s scope is the “world” which is reference to “mankind” as his creation. The very first man Adam sinned and death passed to ALL men for that “All have sinned.Romans 5:12 “For ALL have sinned” Romans 3:23 with no single exception. Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; “But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
- Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
- But praise God, though” All have sinned” ,” all under sin” and Romans 5:6 “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.” Romans 5:8 says “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” This ungodly refers to the sinners without any single exception for Jesus died for ALL men with no single exception 1 John 2:2 and that Jesus is the Saviour of the world. His grace appeared to All men with no single exception.
- Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
- Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: God is commanding all men every where (All pla ces) but it so sad not all beleiveth, not all received the Gospel. Others believed, others rejected Christ.
– 2 Thes 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
KJV But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The very reasoned why other are not saved because they rejected the gospel truth/love of truth. This is the very cause God shall send them strong delusion. It was not that God pre-determine to some believe and others will not believe.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Beginning speaks of the time, the time when one believed the gospel truth, the context has nothing to do with chosen someone before the world began. So when this started/ emerged about His choosing you? It is when the Spirit began working in you and the belief of the truth, which is the Gospel of Christ. The being cause why others are not saved because they received not the truth.
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
KJV But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The very reasoned why other are not saved because they rejected the gospel truth/love of truth. This is the very cause God shall send them strong delusion. It was not that God pre-determine to some believe and others will not believe.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Beginning speaks of the time, the time when one believed the gospel truth, the context has nothing to do with chosen someone before the world began. So when this started/ emerged about His choosing you? It is when the Spirit began working in you and the belief of the truth, which is the Gospel of Christ. The being cause why others are not saved because they received not the truth.
Although I have brought up calvin prior to the post you responded to, you have not previously indicated to me that you do not study calvin's writings. It is interesting because Slayer has indicated he believes calvin is correct in his interpretation of Scripture and you and Slayer have similar beliefs. Apologies for any confusion on my part.
Notwithstanding the fact that you do not study calvin's writings, the fact remains that you err in your belief that the spiritual matters referred to in 1 Cor 2 are the same as the natural, physical realm spoken of in Rom 1.
That leaves me secure in my eternal destination, because God choose a people before the foundation of the world and secured their eternal destination by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and he said that he would not loose even one of them and I have confidence that I am included in that number along with all who truly believe that there is a God. Even though we continue to sin, God looks upon us as holy and without blame before him in love, because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. He does not impute iniquity as far as their eternal destination is concerned. Every sin that we commit as we live here on earth is paid in full by his sacrifice.
Slayer and I do not agree on some things. I believe that for the most part Slayer and Calvin are right on, but, as I said, I believe there are some flaws in their doctrine, in as much as I can glean from what people have said on this forum about what Calvin believes. But I stand firm on my understanding of my interpretation as to what 1 Cor 2:14 and Romans 1 means. 1 Cor 2:14 has reference to the natural man and Romans 1 has reference to disobedient children of God. I do not think that you perceive exactly how depraved we are by our fleshly nature and that, although we have been born of the Spirit, we still have our warfare as Paul did and loose the battle to our depraved nature at times. I have heard that the american Indian used to say, There is a black dog and a white dog inside us, and the one that you feed the most wins.
Pr 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Israel is Gods elect yet all those who God brought out of Egypt perished in the wilderness and did not enter the promised land. You are not elect until you become saved by grace through faith. Election follows salvation it cannot precede salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God elected a people before the foundation of the world and he saved them on the cross. Election proceeds salvation.
I do not believe you comprehend how powerful God is.
What you are saying when you focus on that which has been overcome is that God is not capable of performing that which He promises in His Word when He tells us that He works within us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us in our sufferings (1 Peter 5:10). You do not believe that God is faithful to establish us and keep us from evil (2 Thess 3:3). You do not believe God is able to preserve your whole spirit and soul and body blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ from heaven (1 Thess 5:23). So sad you have no confidence in the promises of God.
So you live by the code of the American Indian?ForestGreenCook said:
Very eye-opening as to your interpretation of Scripture.
You are the one, in your belief, that is taking away God's power by limiting his ability to save all that he desires to save.
I notice you do not acknowledge God's power as revealed in 1 Peter 5:10, 2 These 3:3, 1 These 5:23.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Pet 5:10, Peter is talking to elders (preachers) in 5:1 and even includes himself as an elder. You keep trying to insert the natural man into the scriptures that they do not belong. The same applies to 2 Thes 3:3, Paul is directing his letter to the church of the Thessalonians even addressing them as brethren. The same applies to 1 Thes 5:23, Letter written to the church, addressing them as brethren in 5:1. All of the letters in the new testament are written to churches or children of God. The apostles could not make the natural man understand spiritual things, so, their preaching was directed to children of God instructing them how to live their lives here on earth telling them how to get delivered from their disobedience, and not telling them how to get delivered eternally, but teaching them that they were already saved eternally by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for their sins.
We were not speaking of the natural man.
In your Post #447, you stated:
"I do not think that you perceive exactly how depraved we are by our fleshly nature and that, although we have been born of the Spirit, we still have our warfare as Paul did and loose the battle to our depraved nature at times. "
So I reminded you of those verses in 1 Peter 5:10, 2 Thessalonians 3:3, and 1 Thessalonians 5:23, and stated I do not believe you comprehend how powerful God is in the life of the believer.
YES, I do understand how powerful God is, more than you do, in that, you limit his power by saying that he wants to save every man, but man won't let him. I have stated before that God gives man a free choice as to how he wants to live his life here on earth, but it is God's choice concerning eternal life for man. Because he has given man a free choice about his natural life is why children of God have to keep repenting when they choose to sin. God has the power to stop man from sinning, but he has given him a free choice.
God is glorified in His mercy above His absolute authority.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
ForestGreenCook,
re: "God gives man a free choice as to how he wants to live his life here on earth..."
Well, let's think about the two choices - having free will or having an escape from being tortured 24/7 for eternity in the lake of fire in lieu of not having free will? What to choose, what to choose? Boy, this is a tough one.
re: "God gives man a free choice as to how he wants to live his life here on earth..."
Well, let's think about the two choices - having free will or having an escape from being tortured 24/7 for eternity in the lake of fire in lieu of not having free will? What to choose, what to choose? Boy, this is a tough one.
Yes, God has mercy, when he saw, by his foreknowledge, that none would seek him and that we were all become filthy and none were good, no, not one. He choose a people before the foundation of the world and had his Son die for their sins and make them holy and without blame. If he had not had mercy we all would have gone to hell.
Ps 53:2-3, - You best be thankful that God had compassion enough to choose a people to save after seeing by his foreknowledge that none would do good, no, not one. If you are one that truly believes there is a God that you worship, then you are in that saved group. God would have been a just God if he had let us all burn in hell. I wonder what he thinks of your remarks!
Yes, man rejects God. And mankind rejecting God in no way affects God's sovereignty, nor does it limit God's power.
Your insistence that God's power is limited because it is His desire that all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4) and yet we know some will be cast into the lake of fire does not equal God's power being limited. It just reveals your inability to comprehend the all-encompassing love of God and His desire that those who reject Him would not reject so that they also could be with Him in new heaven new earth.