The Richman and Lazarus a parable

[Dino246]

Whether it’s a parable or not the meaning is well understood. Rejecting
God (spiritual poverty) is like playing
with fire. 🔥

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God."

If "spiritual poverty" is equivalent to "poor in spirit", you may want to re-word your comment.

 

[Miri]

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God."

If "spiritual poverty" is equivalent to "poor in spirit", you may want to re-word your comment.

I’m sure you know what I mean. 😉

 

[Bladerunner]

The reason that Lazarus name was mentioned at not the Richman was because Lazarus name was written in the book. Ex. 32:32, Rev. 21:27

two different people. The other died twice.

Blade

 

[carl11]

ok, then the issue must be that i don't quite understand what you meant by objection number 4, about the unsaved not having eternal life...?

I think I see what you are saying in regards to the fact that I quoted Jn. 3. I used Jn. 3 of the idea of being born again in that the richman was not born again in other words when he died that was it he did not receive eternal life. In exchange Lazarus did become born again and was given eternal life. I hope that helps.

 

[carl11]

two different people. The other died twice.

Blade

Ok, I'm not following you here.

 

[carl11]

Matt:5:3 has nothing to do with Lazarus being poor in spirit. As I demonstrated to you, the context is comparing Lazarus who is was said to be a poor beggar, to the rich man who lived in luxury every day. The mention of Lazarus desiring to be fed with the crumbs (food) from the rich man's table also supports that the context is speaking about literal material abundance vs. Lazarus' lack of material needs.

The word beggar is used in correlation with that of Mt. 5:3

I have studied everything that can be studied on these Biblical subjects for over 40 years, so I have indeed done enough study and will continue to do so. And if you would do your own studies on this subject instead of repeating someone else's, the scriptures would lead you to the understanding that both life and death are states of conscious existence in relation to an individuals status with God.

Eternal Life = Never ending conscious existence, with immortal and glorified bodies in the kingdom of God

Eternal death = Never ending conscious existence, with a resurrected body, separated from God in the lake of fire.

The above is what the combined scriptures teach regarding life and death. The Greek words translated as destroy and punish are not defined as annihilation or extinction. There is no scripture that even suggests temporary punishment or annihilation. The supporting words are always, "torment, punishment, eternal, everlasting, forever and ever, no rest day or night, etc." I have never seen a scripture that says that a person will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be burned up immediately, or that they will be cast in and torment for a little while and then cease to exist. You won't find it!



Sheol/Hades, is a temporary place of punishment for the unfaithful throughout all of history. At the end Christ's thousand years, the unrighteous dead throughout all history will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15) and will be judged. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

Neither Sheol nor Hades should ever be translated as "the grave." The proper word in the Hebrew referring to the grave, tomb or sepulcher is the word "qeber" with its NT counter part being "Mnemion." Both Sheol and Hades refer to the unseen realm of departed spirits.

And yet you are saying that sheol/hades is temporarily place of punishment and yet it is found readily all throughout the Bible.

Also please provide a scriptural reference to that of the unsaved receiving a body and what kind of body also ?

The binding of Satan is exactly what is going to take place. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, which is depicted in Rev.19:11-21 and which is also when the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire. Following that in Rev.20:1-3, a mighty angel comes down from heaven and seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and seals it over him during the same thousand years in which Christ will reign.

This is another theme and another time.

"The Lamb," the Sheep Gate, the Bread of Life, the Rock, Immanuel, eternal life, the Living Water and many, many more, are just other designations referring to the Lord Jesus. Just because Jesus is referred to by different names is no reason to include the angel seizing Satan as also being figurative, which is your error. Whether the chain is corporeal or incorporeal, the result is the same, which is the binding of Satan. It is also supported by the fact that at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, a star, which is figurative for an angel, has the key to the Abyss and opens it and which remains open until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and which is then locked back up after Satan is thrown in. It's just a matter of being able to discern between what is literal and what is symbolic.

So only when it's oblivious will you acknowledge this. So you would not acknowledge that the gate, the water, the fire, sores, dogs, purple, fine linen...etc are not symbolic which all represent something.

 

[Bladerunner]

Ok, I'm not following you here.

You have this Lazarus from the story of the Richman and Lazarus (poor man) and you have the resurrection of 'Lazarus of Bethany ' .. This Lazarus died Twice as he was resurrected once. He is the only one in the Bible that I know of that Died TWICE and is in Heaven awaiting the OT saints to be resurrected. Here He will also be resurrected twice.

Blade

 

[carl11]

You have this Lazarus from the story of the Richman and Lazarus (poor man) and you have the resurrection of 'Lazarus of Bethany ' .. This Lazarus died Twice as he was resurrected once. He is the only one in the Bible that I know of that Died TWICE and is in Heaven awaiting the OT saints to be resurrected. Here He will also be resurrected twice.

Blade

Highly unlikely but a good thought never the less

 

[Nehemiah6]

This Lazarus died Twice as he was resurrected once.

That is merely an assumption. We are not told that this is what actually happened. He could have been taken to Heaven with the OT saints after the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Bladerunner]

Highly unlikely but a good thought never the less

WHat is Highly unlikely? Please sir..state your case!

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

That is merely an assumption. We are not told that this is what actually happened. He could have been taken to Heaven with the OT saints after the resurrection of Christ.

NO!... If He died on earth and was raised (resurrected) from the dead by Jesus on Earth, then later died; He died twice and was resurrected once. RIGHT!

OK, When He died, the second time, His souls went to heaven. As He was a Jewish Person living in the Kingdom Gospel dispensation, He would have went to Abram's Bosom. There His soul would have been taken to heaven by Jesus when He was in the general area for three days and three nights. OK so far!

Shortly before the millennium begins, the OT Saints bodies will be resurrected and united with their souls for a redeemed Body. This will end the 1st resurrection .

Thus Lazarus will die twice and will be resurrected twice. OK?

Blade

 

[carl11]

WHat is Highly unlikely? Please sir..state your case!

Blade

Just because his name appears twice does not necessarily mean it was the same person.

 

[Noose]

Another good reason to believe that it is a parable.

The name Lazarus is the hellenized version of the name Eliazar which means God is my helper- so the whole theme of the story is that God helps those who are helpless.

And:

The setting (time) is during Abraham's time or some period after Abraham's time but before Moses. We see Abraham tell the rich man that Moses and the prophets were on earth witnessing to the rich man's brothers. What Abraham really implied was 'the law and the prophets' - a phrase used to show a very long time period extending all the way to John the baptist.

 

[Bladerunner]

Another good reason to believe that it is a parable.

The name Lazarus is the hellenized version of the name Eliazar which means God is my helper- so the whole theme of the story is that God helps those who are helpless.

And:

The setting (time) is during Abraham's time or some period after Abraham's time but before Moses. We see Abraham tell the rich man that Moses and the prophets were on earth witnessing to the rich man's brothers. What Abraham really implied was 'the law and the prophets' - a phrase used to show a very long time period extending all the way to John the baptist.

OH, How do you know it is in this time period... Seems like to me you are adding to GOD's WORD in the Bible. You know the problem associated with that -do you not?

I'll bet you got the Hellenized version from Wikapedia... All I know; is the Bible, GOd's WORD tells us His name was Lazarus. If you again want to add to God's WORD... be my guest... It is you problem to deal with

BLade

 

[MattforJesus]

Answer me this as stated in Mark 16 could you drink something poisonous such as cyanide and live to tell about it ? Jesus never said this was a parable also and yet how does one look at this.

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This does not mean you do it on purpose.

Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Do not tempt the Lord they God means do not put yourself in a dangerous position on purpose and then say God save me, for God is not going to jump for us when we do it ourselves, which the devil told Jesus to put Himself in a dangerous position on purpose by saying cast yourself down and the angels will save you.

This would even include daredevil, and adrenal rushing acts, like bungee jumping, or sky diving, or anything that is a dangerous thing to do, or can be, and doing it on purpose.

If we drink poison on purpose that would be putting ourselves in dangerous position on purpose, and if it means do it on purpose and it will be alright, then we can put ourselves in any dangerous position on purpose and say God save me, but then what Jesus stated do not tempt the Lord the God would not be true.

 

[carl11]

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This does not mean you do it on purpose.

Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Do not tempt the Lord they God means do not put yourself in a dangerous position on purpose and then say God save me, for God is not going to jump for us when we do it ourselves, which the devil told Jesus to put Himself in a dangerous position on purpose by saying cast yourself down and the angels will save you.

This would even include daredevil, and adrenal rushing acts, like bungee jumping, or sky diving, or anything that is a dangerous thing to do, or can be, and doing it on purpose.

If we drink poison on purpose that would be putting ourselves in dangerous position on purpose, and if it means do it on purpose and it will be alright, then we can put ourselves in any dangerous position on purpose and say God save me, but then what Jesus stated do not tempt the Lord the God would not be true.

Don't think for one moment that those that hold fast to Mrk. 16 are tempting the Lord, they are following what the Bible has to say concerning all of this. They are reading what the Bible has to say and likewise those that hold fast to a living person in hades screaming for help are doing the same thing, albeit they do not understand that the whole idea of Lazarus and the Richman is a parable showing us something grand nearly that of salvation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...the whole idea of Lazarus and the Richman is a parable showing us something grand nearly that of salvation.

There's nothing grand about suffering in Hades.

 

[carl11]

There's nothing grand about suffering in Hades.

The unsaved cannot suffer because they have never been given eternal life.

 

[garee]

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This does not mean you do it on purpose.

Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Do not tempt the Lord they God means do not put yourself in a dangerous position on purpose and then say God save me, for God is not going to jump for us when we do it ourselves, which the devil told Jesus to put Himself in a dangerous position on purpose by saying cast yourself down and the angels will save you.

This would even include daredevil, and adrenal rushing acts, like bungee jumping, or sky diving, or anything that is a dangerous thing to do, or can be, and doing it on purpose.

If we drink poison on purpose that would be putting ourselves in dangerous position on purpose, and if it means do it on purpose and it will be alright, then we can put ourselves in any dangerous position on purpose and say God save me, but then what Jesus stated do not tempt the Lord the God would not be true.

We walk by faith not by sight in respect to literal poison..... but what that poison represents in the parables, used to hide the spiritual unseen understanding.

Drinking in poison is a metaphor used throughout the scriptures for taking in false doctrines as the doctrine or oral traditions of men .As a sign, Christian men are not affected by lies coming from men. (Poison) that go above that as it is written .(The anti venom antidote )

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ informed the kind of fathers that made the word of God without effect through their oral traditions of men, a brood of vipers as false prophets offering other men their poisonous oral traditions . Again its never an bout literal poison but what it represents spiritually.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 12:34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 23:33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Psalm 140:3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.

Romans 3:1 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

 

[Dino246]

We walk by faith not by sight in respect to literal poison..... but what that poison represents in the parables, used to hide the spiritual unseen understanding.

Drinking in poison is a metaphor used throughout the scriptures for taking in false doctrines as the doctrine or oral traditions of men .As a sign, Christian men are not affected by lies coming from men. (Poison) that go above that as it is written .(The anti venom antidote )

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ informed the kind of fathers that made the word of God without effect through their oral traditions of men, a brood of vipers as false prophets offering other men their poisonous oral traditions . Again its never an bout literal poison but what it represents spiritually.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 12:34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 23:33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Psalm 140:3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.

Romans 3:1 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

So... the faithful followers of Christ, who drink the deadly poison of false teaching, will not be hurt by it?

That simply doesn't follow. If it did, then we would have no concern about false teaching, because we could be confident that there is no danger from it.

Your view that everything is a parable is simply nonsensical at times.