Not By Works

[Studyman]

You are all over the place. End outcome... purpose... goal... it's not different. The purpose of the law is to lead people to faith in Christ. You laugh at my question, but I noticed you didn't say yes. Works reveal faith. They are not faith. The Law served it's purpose to lead us to Christ. And now we are lead by the Spirit.

Where is your rebuttal using scriptures that you claim to apply? Where is your explanation of how Shamah is in error with the application of the scriptures he used? You are using your religious belief here, again, not the Word's of God.

Shamah laid on a concise, detailed explanation of his belief and you completely ignored it, this time you didn't even post a scripture, just more of YOUR words.

What about the Blood of animals and Levite Priesthood Ceremonies the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians? Doesn't the Bible say they were a "shadow of things to come"? What things? Were they not to lead the partakers to the true Blood, the true Sacrifice?

Then, of course, we would not need to sacrifice any more animals or have a ?Levite Priest perform "works of the Law" given by Moses for the remission of sins.

But should we not still follow His instructions for us?

Lev. 19:
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Are not these and others what the Word which became Flesh said He would write on our hearts? How do these cease to exist once we have been lead to Christ?

 

[Studyman]

My reading of him, is he is Painting himself into a corner where he cannot get out of, except to repent, and he does not seem to want to repent.

A man shouldn't have to repent from following God's instructions and belief in Him who created them. A man should repent from following religious traditions which "transgress the commandments of God".

Do you agree with this statement?

Can you explain the sin you accuse Shamah of, that he needs repentance from? The Messiah was pretty detailed on the sins He accused the Mainstream Preachers of His time of.

As a "Christian" should you also be detailed in your accusations? How can Shamah repent, if you don't explain what his sin is.

At the very least, shouldn't you PM him and "help your brother"? Or is this just another attempt to ridicule and discredit him as did the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time who, through the Word's of God, exposed their religious doctrines as from man and not from God?

 

[Studyman]

So then how is the Priest Hood, (the everlasting Law) changed? Like you say, it is not changed it is replaced with a "New and better Covenant. The Law is fulfilled in Christ not changed and, I reckon "yodh" means "Law"

What is the "Law of Christ: The answer is;

Galatians 6:2, “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the "Law of Christ."

The Law was not removed it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Mark12:32,33
"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

33) and to love Him with all your heart and with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”…

Apostle Paul say's he is not free from God's Law but under, "Christ Law"

1Corinthians9:20,22
19) Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20) To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21) To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law, so as to win those not having the law. 22) To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23) I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

God bless!

So is your Christ the same Christ that told Abram to forsake His Family and "follow Him"?

 

[Studyman]

No, we have not always been under the covenant of grace.......and it does no good to engage a man whose pupils are tattooed with a skewed view of the law.......

The LAW (OLD COVENANT) was given through MOSES; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ (NEW COVENANT)

Your comment goes beyond ridiculous!

So in your religion, Noah didn't receive Grace and Truth from the Word which became Flesh?

Abraham didn't receive truth and Grace for the word which Became Flesh?

So if you don't believe in this Christ, what Christ do you believe in?

 

[gb9]

Where is your rebuttal using scriptures that you claim to apply? Where is your explanation of how Shamah is in error with the application of the scriptures he used? You are using your religious belief here, again, not the Word's of God.

Shamah laid on a concise, detailed explanation of his belief and you completely ignored it, this time you didn't even post a scripture, just more of YOUR words.

What about the Blood of animals and Levite Priesthood Ceremonies the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians? Doesn't the Bible say they were a "shadow of things to come"? What things? Were they not to lead the partakers to the true Blood, the true Sacrifice?

Then, of course, we would not need to sacrifice any more animals or have a ?Levite Priest perform "works of the Law" given by Moses for the remission of sins.

But should we not still follow His instructions for us?

Lev. 19:
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Are not these and others what the Word which became Flesh said He would write on our hearts? How do these cease to exist once we have been lead to Christ?

but, who was given those instructions? and when?

you see, you can go on and on ( like you do ) about the Law and the Covenants , but as long as you refuse to use context and chronological order, your words are just that . words. they are devoid of proper meaning.

like your insistence that we are under the Jerimiah 31 covenant. well, if you actually read chapter 30, God specifically told Jeremiah that " when He brings His People back from captivity ".

so, unless you were there with the people of Israel, got carried away to Babylon, and then are going back to the promised land, that does not apply to you.

and, before you respond with " well, that is symbolism of a sinner turning to Christ" , consider this- could this also mean that we are intended to live out the righteous requirements of the Law, and not the letter , as you insist?

since you won't straightly answer that, I will- yes it can.

 

[posthuman]

the Word which became Flesh

this is Who was nailed to the cross.

to proclaim freedom to the captives.

to save you.

 

[Studyman]

but, who was given those instructions? and when?

you see, you can go on and on ( like you do ) about the Law and the Covenants , but as long as you refuse to use context and chronological order, your words are just that . words. they are devoid of proper meaning.

like your insistence that we are under the Jerimiah 31 covenant. well, if you actually read chapter 30, God specifically told Jeremiah that " when He brings His People back from captivity ".

so, unless you were there with the people of Israel, got carried away to Babylon, and then are going back to the promised land, that does not apply to you.

and, before you respond with " well, that is symbolism of a sinner turning to Christ" , consider this- could this also mean that we are intended to live out the righteous requirements of the Law, and not the letter , as you insist?

since you won't straightly answer that, I will- yes it can.

So given God's Law is Spiritual, what is the captivity?

Were they held captive by God's unjust and burdensome laws as you and many others on this forum imply? Or were they held captive by death and deception caused by listening to "other voices" than their Savior, as did Eve?

 

[Studyman]

this is Who was nailed to the cross.

to proclaim freedom to the captives.

to save you.

Yes, to save me. But not from God's instructions as you preach. Jesus did not come back to "remove" God's instructions. He came to remove my past sins so I am free to "SERVE" HIM in Holiness. His Holiness, not yours or religious mans.

We were held captive by the devil, not by God. At least this is what the scriptures tell us.

 

[TruthTalk]

Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

Hi decon,

The correct response to being "set free" from the Law and sin and death should be "joy unspeakable and thankfulness to Jesus for setting us free", not more Law please.

Why would anyone want more of what brought them death and condemnation, I cannot imagine who.

God bless!

 

[dcontroversal]

So in your religion, Noah didn't receive Grace and Truth from the Word which became Flesh?

Abraham didn't receive truth and Grace for the word which Became Flesh?

So if you don't believe in this Christ, what Christ do you believe in?

I never said that or implied that.......and like normal you twist and embellish to make an invalid point.....both cited examples were before the law was given and NO ONE said that there are not examples to be found...what was addressed was your comment that we have always been under the covenant of grace....that is FALSE.......

 

[TruthTalk]

So is your Christ the same Christ that told Abram to forsake His Family and "follow Him"?

I'm not going to answer this, the poster is aching for an argument no intention on finding the truth.

 

[posthuman]

We were held captive by the devil, not by God. At least this is what the scriptures tell us

do you know the scriptures as well as you boast?

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned all in disobedience, so that He may have mercy on all.

Galatians 3:22-23
But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

 

[posthuman]

So in your religion, Noah didn't receive Grace and Truth from the Word which became Flesh?

Abraham didn't receive truth and Grace for the word which Became Flesh?

So if you don't believe in this Christ, what Christ do you believe in?

Proverbs 30:10
Do not slander a servant to his master, lest he curse you, and you be held guilty.

 

[Shamah]

and what does John say, in the same letter, that the commands were? believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

nothing about the Sabbath.

If you isolate yes, but this would ignore the Messiah;s words, the 2 greatest Commands He spoke... I don't think John was erasing this, I think He had this in mind... and uhh loving without doing it the way Yah says is your own version of love not His...

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

 

[Shamah]

what i mean is this:

Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your perpetual share. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring. ​

(Numbers 18:19) ​

​

in order for the priesthood to be changed, the jots and tittles of the Law that give the priesthood to the sons of Aaron -- in an everlasting covenant of salt -- had to somehow be removed.

if the argument is that no part of the Law is removed because 'not one jot or tittle' -- then the priesthood isn't changed, because that changes the Law, and by changing it, removes jots and tittles. changing the requirement for man to bring bulls and goats and doves to the sons of Aaron also removes jots and tittles. yes, Jesus is become our high priest forever -- but in order for this to occur the Law must be changed. jots and tittles must be removed. the Law says offer the blood of animals -- if His blood was offered and accepted forever, it is according to an unchanged Law of Moses with no yodh removed?

One then you simply don't believe the Messiah;s words when He says "unless heaven and earth pass nothing will pass from the Law" or PS 89 or PS 105...

and This is handled in Hebrews:

Hebrews 7:11-12, “Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed (#G3331), there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”



Notice it is the same word in English “change” but in the Greek they are 2 different words?



“For the priesthood being changed (#G3331), there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”



If we only look at the English it is easy to misunderstand what the writer of Hebrews is seeking to tell us. Lets take a deeper look at the difference between these words:



“For the priesthood being changed (#G3331)”



“changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346



Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established



As in the priesthood on earth, the Levite priesthood has been abolished, and the Priesthood in the heavens, carried out by Yahshua is established. This “change” or “metathesis” is a removal of one that is replaced by another.



“there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”



Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.



“change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087



Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another



Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.



As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest. This “change” or “metatithemi” is a transferral.

 

[PS]

What is the "Law of Christ: The answer is;

Galatians 6:2, “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the "Law of Christ."

The Law was not removed it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, (1Pe 2:24a KJV)

Thus ending the need for Old Testament law.

 

[Shamah]

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”



Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[VCO]

Where is your rebuttal using scriptures that you claim to apply? Where is your explanation of how Shamah is in error with the application of the scriptures he used? You are using your religious belief here, again, not the Word's of God.

Shamah laid on a concise, detailed explanation of his belief and you completely ignored it, this time you didn't even post a scripture, just more of YOUR words.
. . .

Romans 3:20 (NASB)
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.


THAT APPLIES TO BOTH THE OLD TESTAMENT AS WELL AS THE NEW TESTAMENT.


Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.


When the KNOWLEDGE of SIN comes in it will bring you to a DEEP, REMORSEFUL realization of HOW YOUR ACTIONS HURT GOD.
Where are your weepings, your sobs, and your pleading with HIM for forgiveness? That is what true repentance actually IS.


Psalm 51:17 (HCSB)
17 The sacrifice pleasing to God is a broken spirit. God, You will not despise a broken and humbled heart.


IT IS MY GUESS, that you have NEVER had this kind of SEVERE GRIEF AND MOURNING over how UTTERLY SINFUL YOU HAVE BEEN. I have, and that was for the hours just before I received HIM as LORD of my Life, where I was weeping like a baby and sobbed for hours.
If you have NEVER HAD THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE, how come?

David certainly did?

Psalm 51:1-17 (ESV)
1 Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones that you have broken rejoice.
9 Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will return to you.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, O God of my salvation, and my tongue will sing aloud of your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips, and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

 

[BillG]

LOL Ohh so if someone tells me stealing is a sin do I then say your condemming me? LOL This is nosense calling a sin a sin wis not condemnation... Condemnation saying one is not entering the kingdom...

ALSO you cut out the ppart of my quote that showed this:

Of course it is. Anything that is against His Instructions is sin...

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

Why do you mock me?

I asked a simple question and the possible consequences as a result.
You then go to an extreme and use stealing.
Now everyone knows stealing is a sin.
The majority of people on here probably have no idea what a tzitzit and it's purpose and relevance today.

But not everyone knows whether not wearing a tzitzit is a sin, which you related to Posthuman that if you did not wear it then it's a sin

Of course it is. Anything that is against His Instructions is sin...

So if I do not wear one then I am sinning and if I feel it's not relevant to me to wear then I am willfully sinning.

Hence "Am I codemned?

Thanks for LOL at me.

 

[Seohce]

Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!

OUR LORD JESUS GAVE INSTRUCTIONS TO PREACH THE GOSPEL UNTO ALL NATIONS.


TO BAPTIZE AND TO TEACH OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. (matthew 28:18-20)


romans 10

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”


THOSE WHO DO NOT TEACH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS WERE NOT SENT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL.


1 john 4

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


1 john 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word,love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

revelations 21
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

LIKE ANANIAS AND SAPPHIRA, WHO AFTER ŔECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH, LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

WILL THEY BE CONSIGNED TO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR?

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES.


For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD?



He will punish those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS.



"GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

"LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR"