The beast a literal mark as that seen the temporal or spiritual, the unseen, the eternal?

garee · May 28, 2018

Not sure of what happened to the original thread but I would offer in respect to what another brother in the Lord had said..

Resisting or accepting advancements of technology is not a source of faith as the unseen things of God . God's word, prophecy, alone provides that spiritual source .(sola scriptura)

Technology advancements are to be treated no different than the supposed New age, Old age... out of body experience or near death experiences ..not a source of Christian faith in respect the unseen eternal .

It simply opens up an opportunity for the father of lies, Satan, to bring his false prophecy as the oral traditions of men called lying signs and wonders. The sky is the limit just believe...

What you offer sounds like a works righteousness system.... Resist a literal mark... enter heaven, no resisting..... no heaven.
That only makes our assurance (OSAS) that no man can snatch us from our Father not seen hand (will)without effect .

Hand and will (forehead) indicate keeping God's principles (Exoudus 13:9.16)

9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.Ex.13

16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt.Ex.13

Keeping the ten commandments (Deuteronomy 6;6-8; 11:18.

And Ephisians 6:12 indicates it will not be a tangible or physical mark. For we wrestles not against flesh and blood, the temporal things seen.

Just imagine the new technology of retina identification replaces the twenty-year-old microchip which was science fiction thirty years ago as more accurate and harder system to duplicate? No foreign objects entering a person's body. What's next? DNA sniffers?
Not a source of Christian faith.

First of all, the buying and selling has to do with spiritual truths hid in parables. The Bible is full of spiritual truths in respect to God, not seen.
God is Spirit, we understand who he is by the spirit of the word, comparing spiritual words (faith to faith, the unseen understanding to the same unseen understanding) . The letter or literal that we see with our eyes of feel with our fingers kills. And the hand and forehead when finding the spiritual understanding always represent the mind and the will working together.

It is the mind of Christ that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure. (imputed righteousness) If he has begun the good work in us he will finish it.

John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God law is bound as a sign. A literal mark of the beast whether taken or not must be in violation of the commandments.

Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.Deuteronomy 11:18-19

Without parables Christ spoke not, and not if the first sense makes sense do not look for the spiritual application or meaning.

Proverbs 23:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Why don't you come down off your literal cloud and look to the spiritual applications?

Magenta · May 29, 2018

garee said:

Everything posted after a certain time on Thursday, before the change to this new platform on Monday, went poof

Nehemiah6 · May 30, 2018

garee said:

Maybe so, but when discussing the Mark of the Beast, there is no reason for us not to take everything in Revelation 13 as literal (unless symbolism is clearly evident).

The Beast (the Antichrist) will use modern technology to plant a chip in every individual (under compulsion). That chip will incorporate the number 666, along with any other identifying numbers and letters. Today the debit card with its chip has practically replaced cash. So this would simply be the next step.

Alertandawake · May 30, 2018

All the evidence at this stage, points towards some kind of Cashless Society that can very well be a totalitarian type of government.

So try to picture a type of society, a Cashless Society, where in order to even have the very basics of life, one would need to have a technological device of some kind attached to them in order to function. Failure to have such a device will mean said person does not exist.

Now with all the evidence today, the technological capabilities of a implanted battery powered device that uses the body temperature to charge such a device can easily replace all known existing financial payment methods that exist today. (and there is evidence out there that indicates placement in the right hand or in the forehead are the best locations).

For arguments sake, going by the Cashless Society model, a person who has no implant device that allows them to be electronically identified, that person will not exist. Cannot buy food, cannot work, cannot pay rent, cannot provide for their children, cannot get medical treatment and so on. This is your Cashless Society.

And in my opinion, based on all the research I have done to this stage, the mark of the beast prophecy is in relation to a cashless society. The buying and selling requirements for a cashless society match that with the mark of the beast. The most ideal placement of a rechargeable battery (lithium for example) powered implant matches the description of the mark of the beast.

So question, since there is a form of radiation associated with wireless devices, can a device that is permanently attached to a person 24x7 result in some kind of cancer/tumor? Or what if something happens and a lithium battery should explode and comes into contact with flesh? There have been cases that lithium batteries have exploded, nasty burns on skin. There is evidence animals having cancers/tumors as a result of implant. Question, is it possible some kind of cancer/tumor or a lithium battery implant exploding inside a person can be what Rev 16.2 is in relation to??

garee · May 31, 2018

We could be going into a cashless society but what does that have to do with the gospel in respect to the things not seen, the eternal ?

The foundation for the spiritual mark of those who know not Christ is found in Genesis 4

He will come like a thief in the night just as in the days of Noah. This is when it was open market business as usual to everyone was following the imaginations of their own hearts and not the gospel as it is written.

The gospel does not come according the things of the flesh as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood (the things seen) Advancement in technology is not a work of the gospel.

The mark of a restless wanderer will not be one seen but one of the principle found in Hebrews 4 /. Like that of Cain and Able in respect to natural man not receiving the Sabbath rest that comes from mixing faith in what we do se or hear. Therefore no receiving the Sabbath rest that comes when God softens our hearts

Hebrews 4 (KJV)
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed "with faith" in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Learn what it means to mix faith in that which we hear coming from the word of God and a person might not sell there birthright for a bowl of soul as did another restless wanderer Esau. We are to buy spiritual truths and not sell them in exchange of fifteen minutes of worldly fame.

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4

Ahwatukee · May 31, 2018

garee said:

You're just not understanding the concept regarding the mark.

We have a world-wide electronic crediting and debiting system (buying and selling) currently in place. The push for a cashless society has been going on for some time, so that people are making their purchases via card swiping and/or mobile apps. When that antichrist is revealed, sometime during the middle of the seven years, all other methods of buying and selling will be made obsolete, leaving only his mark to be able to credit and debit ones bank account. It will be that proverbial line being drawn in the sand. The only ways to perform financial transactions on ones bank account will be to receive that mark. Anyone one without it, will not have access to their money. So, this technology will give the antichrist economic control.

By making this mark the only valid way of electronically crediting and debiting ones account, it will force people to receive it or reject it. This goes along with what Jesus said "whoever attempts to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the word of God, will save it." Those who receive it will do so in order to save their lives, because without the mark they will not be able to buy or sell. Those who reject it, will do so knowing that to receive it would be to turn away from God and to seal their fate in the lake of fire and that because by receiving the mark which will have the number of his name encoded in it, they will be aligning themselves with the antichrist.

garee · Jun 1, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

The kingdom of God does not come by trying to observe spiritual marks designed to represent natural unconverted men as beast of the field . It not about eating and drinking literal foods designed for these literal bodies of death as sign seekers.

Advancements in technology like fashion statements have no part in finding spiritual truths hid in the scriptures. It is as it is written.

We are no closer or further away by being a part of the temporal things of this world . Like I suggested what's next after the supposed mark . Retina identification ?Or DNA sniffers?

I understand the point you are trying to make , I simply do not buy it. It is not the same spiritual understanding hid in those parables that has to do with the mark, the number of natural unconverted man (666) as a restless wanderer found in those parables. Again the buying and selling has to do with "spiritual truths" as our necessary food for our new spirits that the disciples knew not of , not temporal food for these bodies of death . Christ will come as a thief of in the night .The god of this world will not be holding out sanctions, believe or starve to death.

The temporal things of this world are not part of the gospel like Esau, a marked man, the restless wanderer who sold his spiritual birthrate for a bowl of soup . It did not soften his heart, not mixing faith in what he did perform. Esau's heart remained hard when he heard the gospel just as Cain's

My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.
For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:11-16

7seasrekeyed · Jun 1, 2018

garee

please explain what you are saying above if you would

garee · Jun 1, 2018

7seasrekeyed said:

Thanks I can try.

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables (without the spiritual understanding)

I would suggest to begin with. Without parables according to the formula found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 which make up the ceremonial laws, they are used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ, beforehand as that from this side of the cross we today look back to.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are "temporal"; but the things which are not seen are "eternal".2 Corinthians 4:18

Many today say the Old Testament saints did not have the Spirit of Christ in them and it came after Pentecost making the parables without effect by that kind of oral tradition of men. But to be born again is not a new testament ordinance. In that way Abel in whom God looked with grace had the Spirit of Christ living in his earthen body of death. Abel received the end of his new faith from the beginning just as we do today. God puts no difference purifying their hearts by a work of His faith just as with us today

1 Peter 1:11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did "signify", when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

To signify is to give a sign as that seen the temporal to inform us, of the eternal things not seen.

Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not to the multitude(everyone) purposely hiding the unseen spiritual understanding as spiritual words. Many of the parables are historical correct and again used to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand. like the removal from Egypt .That also give the unseen spiritual applications like in the book of proverbs, a word translated meaning parable. They are a series of parables. Designed to hide spiritual truth from one as a dark glass, by revealing it to another the clear understanding

For instance, we know all believers are typified in a parable as Kings belonging to a Christian kingdom of Priests. Christian the new name he once called Israel or a Jew in respect to one inwardly born again. All Israel are not the born again Israel

The parable/proverb below shows us how privileged we are as a kingdom of Priest we can search out the spiritual meaning hid in parables. And because we let God be true and every man a liar it shows our hearts are unsearchable.

Proverbs 25:1-3 King James Version (KJV) These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.

garee · Jun 1, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

Yes and symbolism is clearly evident.. but when and how do we hear God not seen and not men through a literal translation ?

Perhaps the words are not just literal but signified using the things seen to represent the eternal things not seen . The word and or in addition to... makes it hard to not look for the signified meaning.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he "sent" and signified "it" by his angel unto his servant John:

For instance when we look at the parables found in Revelation 20, we find the word key. We know it not a literal key that can open the gates of hell and as a literal chain that could bind lying spirits. The same with a bottomless pit it simply represents no possibility of ever being released , The same with soul be-headed. A soul doe not have a literal head but represents Christ our head in respect to our testimony. or a serpent used to discripe an unseen spirit as the god of this world.

What is the signified meaning of the phrase "thousand years" ? What does the word "mark" signify as to its hidden spiritual meaning ? What does the word hand represent in respect as to a spiritual application if not the unseen "will" of God as that which binds things that which have no DNA?

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

7seasrekeyed · Jun 1, 2018

garee, post: 3613493, member: 237842"]Thanks I can try. my responses are in blue, thanks

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables (without the spiritual understanding)

I would suggest to begin with. Without parables according to the formula found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 which make up the ceremonial laws, they are used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ, beforehand as that from this side of the cross we today look back to.

you see that as a forumula? isn't it actually Paul speaking of the reality of that which is not seen? not a forumula? we do not see Christ; we do not see heaven' we certainly do not see God; but we believe.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are "temporal"; but the things which are not seen are "eternal".2 Corinthians 4:18

Many today say the Old Testament saints did not have the Spirit of Christ in them and it came after Pentecost making the parables without effect by that kind of oral tradition of men. But to be born again is not a new testament ordinance. In that way Abel in whom God looked with grace had the Spirit of Christ living in his earthen body of death. Abel received the end of his new faith from the beginning just as we do today. God puts no difference purifying their hearts by a work of His faith just as with us today

ummm....it is a fact that the Holy Spirit did not indwell the nation of Israel the way He does with believers. This is not just 'many' saying otherwise, but established in scripture.

1 Peter 1:11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did "signify", when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

To signify is to give a sign as that seen the temporal to inform us, of the eternal things not seen.

ok...I'm not normally dense, but I really do not understand what you are saying here ^^^^^^^^. to signify means to give an indication of something. for example, the light in the lighthouse signifies to boats to be careful of rocks etc...so I'm asking what do you mean by using the word 'sign' with reference to the word 'signify'

Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not to the multitude(everyone) purposely hiding the unseen spiritual understanding as spiritual words. Many of the parables are historical correct and again used to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand. like the removal from Egypt .That also give the unseen spiritual applications like in the book of proverbs, a word translated meaning parable. They are a series of parables. Designed to hide spiritual truth from one as a dark glass, by revealing it to another the clear understanding

are you saying Jesus is the Holy Spirit here? I'm not that familiar with your posts, so if you are saying that, then we have a major difference in what we believe. please clarify. further, there are plenty of prophecies concerning the suffering of the Son of God, so what are you calling parables exactly?

For instance, we know all believers are typified in a parable as Kings belonging to a Christian kingdom of Priests. Christian the new name he once called Israel or a Jew in respect to one inwardly born again. All Israel are not the born again Israel

The parable/proverb below shows us how privileged we are as a kingdom of Priest we can search out the spiritual meaning hid in parables. And because we let God be true and every man a liar it shows our hearts are unsearchable.

Proverbs 25:1-3 King James Version (KJV) These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.

uhhh...respectfully, it seems to me you are conflating things and the result is confusing

not meaning to insult you, but that is my tentative conclusion, but by all means, do explain further

Ahwatukee · Jun 1, 2018

garee said:

And he still doesn't understand! The literal, physical mark, which will be the only way of buying and selling during those times, will force people to make a decision to receive it or reject it. Those who receive it will have will have aligned themselves with the beast and sealed their fate and those who resist the beast and his mark, will do so because of their testimony for Christ and the word of God and thereby getting the victory over him, with many losing their lives because of it.

You're scary Gary! Because of your lack of understanding of what this mark will be, you would be one of those who, because of your false belief, would be willing to receive the literal mark in order to be able to continue making purchases, paying your bills, buying food, gas, etc.

Regarding the mark being spiritual, we already have proof that the mark is literal and that because the technology has already been revealed, as People are already being implanted under the skin of the hand for the purpose of making purchases. Therefore, your contention is in vain, because we are already seeing this technology being used. That fact that this RFID implant under the skin of the hand is a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word.

How deceiving it truly is, when the prophecy regarding the mark is evolving right before yours and others eyes and you still can't see it.

Why don't you come down off your spiritual cloud and take a look at what is going on in the literal world.

DiscipleDave · Jun 3, 2018

The doctrine that teaches the Mark of the Beast is not a physical mark, is why so many people will be tricked into taking the Mark of the Beast.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Woe unto any person who believes it is not a physical mark and takes it. But a double woe to those who teach such false doctrines, and causes many to take the mark believing it is not a physical mark.

Scriptures plainly teach the mark will go into the right hand or the forehead.
Scriptures plainly teach with the mark you can buy and sell with it.
Scriptures plainly teach that many will be tricked into taking the mark.

One of the ways they are tricked into taking the mark is because they believed the doctrine that it is not a physical mark, that it is a spiritual mark. Therefore when a physical mark does show up, they will take it readily because they foolishly believed the doctrine that taught it was not a physical mark.

It is better to believe it is not a physical mark and say nothing to anyone.
Than to teach people it is NOT a physical mark, and be wrong and have to give account for every person who took it because of YOUR teaching.

Believe Scriptures NOT what men teach. Scriptures teaches:

it is a mark that goes in the right hand or forehead, you can buy and sell with it, and many are tricked into taking the mark. Believe that, not the doctrines of men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Alertandawake · Jun 3, 2018

All the evidence in this day and age, when it comes to the mark of the beast in the context of buying and selling, all the evidence point towards a cashless society. In this context they both have the same footprint.

The greek word for mark is G5480 charagma. That can relate to a scratch or etching. Now in this day and age of technology advances, a type of electronic implant to tag a person certainly can fit that description, as this requires a person to be in one way or another to have the skin physically penetrated for such a implant. The question is how deep inside.

There are 2 specific locations reference for accepting the mark of the beast. Why is that? What does the right hand and forehead share in common? There is evidence that supports a lithium powered battery implant for use with people is best placed in the right hand or in the forehead, something to do with body temperature.

This push to a cashless society through the use of technology requiring a person to have a implanted device for identification and engaging in business as usual but at same time make other payment methods obsolete matches the details of the buying and selling in relation to the mark of the beast.

There is already evidence of animals out there getting cancers/tumors from accepting rfid implants, so the question is, are these cancers/tumors what Rev 16.2 describes? Is the cause due to Electromagnetic radiation? Did the lithium battery explode inside the animal?

With all this evidence there is today, it amazes me that people still cannot see how dangerous this technology is.

Alertandawake · Aug 28, 2018

I have been thinking more on this lately. Now cashless society is another way of describing a totalitarian society. But I also been thinking on Rev 13:16. Now here we have a description that obviously describes that everyone is going to be affected, regadless of a person’s wealth or position in society.

Now there are two sides to every coin. So let us look on the other side of the coin. Apart from elimination of all currently recognized forms of payment instruments and only having a electronic implant as the only acceptable method, there is something else that can affect everyone, and that is the threat of a superdisease of some kind that would require a person to be innoculated.

Now what if such people won’t agree to such a procedure, they be considered a threat to society, and chances are be put into quarentine so as not to contaminate the general population.

Problem is, the technologies we have today, including nano-technology, rfid/nfc implants, this could easily be delivered via a injection.

There is already a superbug that is resistant to all antibiotics on the market, came from China, a pig virus of some kind. So what if down the track some superdisease that affects the public in such a way, that the only way to defend against it is to have nanobites injected into a person? Thing is nanites have to be programmed to do a task. And they need to be powered by something being a manufactured product.

So the question does remain, can the mark of the beast delivery system be a “Mandated Vaccination Program” of some kind?

Ahwatukee · Aug 28, 2018

Alertandawake said:

Hello Alertandawake,

Personally, I believe that the purpose of the mark is to get people aligned with the beast providing undeniable identification, like a symbol giving irrefutable connection between parties. The scripture states that without that mark no one will be able to buy or sell. The best way to insure that people willfully receive it and thereby identify themselves with the beast, would be to make the other methods of buying and selling obsolete, making that mark the only valid device to perform crediting and debiting to an individuals bank account. In other words, if you receive it then you can buy and sell. If you don't receive, then you can't. It forces the individual to make a personal decision, because there are only two options and we know what the consequences are for those who do receive it. It will be a matter of whether an individual loves his own life more or God more. If he loves God, then he will reject it. My point being is that, just as people freely acquire cards and mobile cell phone bank apps in order to electronically credit and debit their bank accounts, the coming mark/device will simply replace those other options, except that the choice at that time will end the fence sitting in regards to their decision for Christ. All that said, I don't believe that the mark will have anything to do with forced vaccinations, but will be a willful decision to save one's life or to lose it.

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