The Lie of Evolution......

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#82
I recall reading a comment on a study of Genesis 1 with regard to textual structure. The researcher looked at several passages that are distinctly poetic, and found that Genesis 1 had none of the "markers" of poetic language found in the unambiguous passages.
The language of Genesis 1 is very poetic and very vague.

I do not want to type it all here, you can watch this video from 3:25

 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#83
Gen 1 is obviously very poetic text. Gen 2 is in contradiction to Gen 1. You cannot read them both literally, its impossible. Either one of them is not literal or both of them.

The context of R 8:19-23 is not about Adam and about his fall. Where do you see it there?

If death did not exist prior the fall, how could Adam understand the problem with "you will die"?
Also, what was the tree of life there for, if nobody and nothing was able to die?
No contradiction. A recap with more detail, that is all. To reiterate, then add more detail is no contradiction. I have heard this ploy used before. It could only fly if pigs could. It is call interpretation of man not guided by the Holy Spirit.
The Tree of life was a symbolism for WISDOM:

The Blessings of Wisdom
…17Her ways are pleasant, and all her paths are peaceful. 18She is a Tree of Life to those who embrace her, and those who lay hold of her are blessed. 19The LORD founded the earth by wisdom and established the heavens by understanding.…

This is going to get deep! The WORD created Wisdom before all other creatures. She is a spirit created and loved by the Triune , One God. The Tree of Life represents her.

The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil actually represented Lucifer unbeknown to him. God knows all. He knew what Lucifer would
do and revealed it in the Garden before it happened , through the symbolism of the two trees. Lucifer reject Wisdom in heaven and got man to on earth. In wisdom is the preservation of life. You speak as though the the Tree of Wisdom is only eaten from to receive life, that is not true wisdom sustains , and protects life. That is the symbolism. For if you notice , Adam and Eve are banned from the Tree of Life only AFTER THEY DISOBEY. This brought about the fall of human nature and all creation because it allowed Lucifer to govern. Since man was given dominion over all the created earth, his fall affects all the created earth. If he did not open the door to sin and bow down to an angel -man in Wisdom would be in control, not man in sin.

Lucifer was the Guardian Cherub in the garden andof the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil.

Ezekiel 28:13-15
…13You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald. Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold, prepared on the day of your creation. 14You were an anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways until wickedness was found in you.…

In this part of Ezekiel , he shares who Lucifer -satan once was. If the Harlot RCC embraced the Book of Enoch as the ORTHODOX have (ETHIOPIAN) and ANCIENT HEBREWS whom they received his writings from- people would understand this better:
14You were an anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones.

Lucifer was on the mountain of God , this is the temple of God at the highest heaven , In the writings of Enoch it explains the different levels of heaven. Lucifer was, if you will the announcer , and trumpeter of God to all brought before him. He was ever before God in heaven. The angels were created before man and were given free will at their creation. They had the knowledge of good and evil within them from the moment God designed them. Hence why the tree represented Angels. For man knew not of evil until a fallen ANGEL exposed them to it. We know at Lucifer's fall he took a third of the heavenly host with him. This is before even what the watchers did in Noah's time.

So ,what is the Revelation talking about? It was written after all, after the casting out of Lucifer from the highest heaven.

Revelation 12:7-12
Michael Defeats the Dragon
7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
To be CONTINUED...........
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#84
He was already cast down out of the HIGHEST HEAVEN and the REALM of Angels. The casting down in
Rev. is from what man calls space or the physical universe. Up to the point which is coming he has been able to
stand before the GATES of heaven which is beyond the physical universe or at the end of it, then beginning of
heaven . Hence, "heaven is my throne and the earth My footstool" 'I am the beginning and the End"



This casting down will be from the cosmos, He will now take a third of the cosmic bodies (stars)with him.
Hence why in Rev. there is a time coming when a third of the day is dimmed and night as well. .Then to a point
of complete darkness which denotes when in time the Lord will return. There are two meanings for stars in the
book of rev. angels and celestial.



Rev.8:12



12Then the fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun and moon and stars were struck. A third of
the stars were darkened, a third of the day was without light, and a third of the night as well.





The first Woe of Rev12. is the first trumpet and will sound during the Trump presidency. God is amazing in
how he talks to the Elect.



Interpreting the times:



…55And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It will be hot,’ and it is. 56You hypocrites! You know how to
interpret the appearance of the earth and sky. Why don’t you know how to interpret the present time? 57And
why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?…





The first trumpet is soon to sound and the blow to the head of the beast out of the sea is coming- SOON! Then
the beast out of the earth and the Mark of the Beast comes. The beast out of the earth will be new kingdoms
which come together after they recover from the blow to the head. The Witnesses will be here during and in be-
tween the first and second Woe. They are the passing of the second Woe= the 6th seal.



I will share more about Wisdom in another post . I think for now this enough to digest. God Bless!
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#85
Your example is a really poor one. Sickle-cell anemia is certainly a terrible disease, but is not a quick killer, so those who have it may reproduce before it claims their lives. It must be passed on by both parents to manifest in such a way to significantly affect health. It is also a lightweight compared to malaria, which is estimated to have killed more people than any other cause. Sickle-cell anemia makes its host resistant to malaria.

That all aside, natural selection is testable and has been demonstrated many times in laboratory experiments. As long as one understands that it cannot generate new information, it is most certainly a valid and essentially proven phenomenon.
All illness is from the original sin. Christ will conquer this in all who believe -TRULY BELIEVE IN HIS POWER. IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN HIM ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#86
No contradiction. A recap with more detail, that is all. To reiterate, then add more detail is no contradiction. I have heard this ploy used before. It could only fly if pigs could. It is call interpretation of man not guided by the Holy Spirit.
There are clear contradictions. Maybe you should read Gen 1 and Gen 2 carefully and compare.

The Tree of life was a symbolism for WISDOM:
Oh oh oh oh :) soooo, symbolism it is now :)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#87
Your example is a really poor one. Sickle-cell anemia is certainly a terrible disease, but is not a quick killer, so those who have it may reproduce before it claims their lives. It must be passed on by both parents to manifest in such a way to significantly affect health. It is also a lightweight compared to malaria, which is estimated to have killed more people than any other cause. Sickle-cell anemia makes its host resistant to malaria.

That all aside, natural selection is testable and has been demonstrated many times in laboratory experiments. As long as one understands that it cannot generate new information, it is most certainly a valid and essentially proven phenomenon.
I've heard this before. The idea that sickle cell anemia is somehow beneficial should never come from grown ups.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#88
There are clear contradictions. Maybe you should read Gen 1 and Gen 2 carefully and compare.



Oh oh oh oh :) soooo, symbolism it is now :)
THAT IS RIGHT! ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN , the Tree of Life is a symbolism of who is in heaven With the Triune God. Just as the Ark of the Covenant was desinged after what was shown Moses from heaven. O' the manifold Wisdom of God, how great are His mysteries and profound are His ways in which only His chosen are permitted to see.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#89
THAT IS RIGHT! ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN , the Tree of Life is a symbolism of who is in heaven With the Triune God. Just as the Ark of the Covenant was desinged after what was shown Moses from heaven. O' the manifold Wisdom of God, how great are His mysteries and profound are His ways in which only His chosen are permitted to see.
If tree of life is symbolism, then tree of knowledge of good and evil, talking snake, eve from adam's side, dust of earth etc. can be symbolism too.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#90
If tree of life is symbolism, then tree of knowledge of good and evil, talking snake, eve from adam's side, dust of earth etc. can be symbolism too.
No because humans are breathing thinking beings unlike trees. And tress do not speak nor have INTELLECTS like God and reflective creatures. Hence why I say symbolism. The snake was the form Lucifer took on. He could not deceive her in his own image for she new him as a guardian Cherub and saw him routinely in the garden. He being of spirit and light can manipulate the natural realm. Angels have supernatural powers. It was no great feet for him to disguise himself as a serpent and deceive Eve. This is beyond your scope of reason for it understood through faith, and revealed in the Holy Spirit in which dwells heavenly Wisdom, which people of FAITH receive to understand the language of God.

Spiritual Wisdom 1Corinthians 2:13-15
…13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.…
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#91
The word theory, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, is “a hypothesis that has been
confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as
accounting for the known facts.”

To be considered a theory, something must be “confirmed” and account for the “known facts.”
Evolution has been neither. At best, evolution is a hypothesis. Unproven and without “correspondence
with fact,” it stands as an idea scientists seem desperate to substantiate, but remain unable to do so.

Evolution is the belief that life spontaneously erupted from non-living chemicals—all life today coming
from that eruption. It includes the idea that all creatures alive today have, after many varied steps,
come into existence from some previously existing creatures.

For example, it is claimed that a fish in the past began changing, then, over millions of years and many
intermediate steps, became a mammal of today. Evolution supporters suggest that fish somehow became
amphibians and amphibians somehow became mammals. This process is supposed to have taken many
millions of years, involving millions of intermediate steps to achieve.


Do not confuse the theory of evolution with adaptation of a species or genetic variation.
Adaptation simply means that something changes to fit its environment, not that it changes
into some other species.

Genetic variation occurs when there are limiting factors in the available gene pool. But again,
it does not produce some new species—only changes within the same species.
-

“No matter how far back we go in the fossil record of previous animal life upon Earth,
we find no trace of any animal forms which are intermediate between the various major
groups or phyla.”
In addition the Cambrian explosion layer has thousands of species created at once with no evidence
Darwin’s natural selection.
And this “natural selection” has become the “answer to everything.”

Ever wonder why humans are the only “hairless” creatures of our “furry primate family”?
What we do know is that it must have happened through natural selection. But then there is
the scientific problem of why we retain such concentration of hair on our scalp, face, armpits,
pubic area (and Uncle Joe’s flowering chest). If our furry selves were naturally selected out,
why did hair in these areas remain, especially so ornately around the head?

We are left to speculate.

Ever wonder why men are nearly always taller, heavier, stronger than women?
That’s natural selection they say. Ever wonder why men don’t have a baculum?

Ever wonder why humans are the only “primates” that walk solely upright,
on two legs? Natural selection.

Why are human females the only mammals, aside from orca whales and pilot whales,
to go through menopause—living far beyond childbearing age?

Here’s one you may not have considered—what about blushing?
So how did this somewhat embarrassing trait come to be prevalent in humans?

Evolution, the fact. Natural selection, the theory—yet the answer to everything.
Is there no other way? These theories of natural selection go on and on.
-

What if man isn’t, in fact, part of the primate family, and thus could never have been
naturally selected from within it? What if he isn’t even a part of the animal kingdom,
and thus never could have been naturally selected from it?

Perhaps man was created after a different “species” (Genesis 1:24-26).
Perhaps he has hair around his head because it was designed as an ornament
(Proverbs 20:29; 1 Corinthians 11:15).

Perhaps men were designed to be taller, heavier and stronger in order to protect
and serve women and children (Proverbs 20:29; 1 Peter 3:7).

Maybe men don’t have a baculum because God intended sex among humans to be
more than just for success in occasional brute offspring reproduction (Genesis 2:24;
1 Corinthians 7:3-5).

Maybe mankind is the most upright appearing of any bipedal creatures on Earth
because that is the way his Creator looks (Genesis 1:26; Revelation 1:13-16)—
because it allows man to build and create things like his Maker.

Perhaps women continue to live after childbearing age because there are other roles
ordained for them in their later years (Titus 2:3-5). Maybe man exhibits physical
reactions, like blushing, to moral dilemmas because there was created in him the
ability to perceive morality (Titus 1:15; 1 Timothy 4:2).

Maybe man is the way he is because he was designed by a Creator.

Actually, not maybe. “Maybe,” “could be,” “possibly,” “perhaps,” ad nauseam,
are all for the realm of the evolutionary journals. The Bible states unequivocally
that this is the way it is.
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings. DNA studies have proven macro (Darwinian) evolution to be false. Absolutely no evidence of DNA creating a new species.
The science has shown that the time models do not work for the evolution of the eye to have occurred between the various species.
When I find the study I will post it.

How does a organism even know light exists or that sounds exists for that matter so that it mutates to receive it?

When kittens do not receive visual stimulation at birth they go blind, it has to be fully functioning with all the necessary components to work.

Oh so God is the deciding factor in how things evolved not natural selection, are you still talking about evolution?
In Genesis the 6 day timeline has all animals created in 1 day. No time for any evolving. The Cambrian explosion supports this. All of a sudden all kinds of species appeared at the same time.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#92
If tree of life is symbolism, then tree of knowledge of good and evil, talking snake, eve from adam's side, dust of earth etc. can be symbolism too.
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg, a Messianic Jew and scholar of Biblical languages and times, debunks that concept. He states the language used in early Genesis is a historical narrative. Nothing is using the symbolic terminology. I take his word over whoever came up with this concept. Most likely those who are uncomfortable with the literal meanings stated.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#93
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg, a Messianic Jew and scholar of Biblical languages and times, debunks that concept. He states the language used in early Genesis is a historical narrative. Nothing is using the symbolic terminology. I take his word over whoever came up with this concept. Most likely those who are uncomfortable with the literal meanings stated.
To me it sounds symbolic not because of the words used but the setting. A few points i have been wondering:

1. The garden of Eden and therefore the tree of life was on earth somewhere. When Adam and Eve were banished, an angel with a flaming sword was placed to prevent them from accessing this tree.
The question is- what happened to this tree? did it die like other physical trees? if it dies then it can not be the tree of life anymore can it?

2. The bible starts with story of this tree of life and also ends with this tree in Revelation again:

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

In between Genesis and Revelation, there has been heavy symbolism of 'a tree that doesn't bear fruit being cut down'.
Could we be the tree? and being a tree that doesn't bear fruit is the heart that doesn't know God?
I'm not sure but in Revelation, we see symbolism of this tree come out clearly.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#94
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg, a Messianic Jew and scholar of Biblical languages and times, debunks that concept. He states the language used in early Genesis is a historical narrative. Nothing is using the symbolic terminology. I take his word over whoever came up with this concept. Most likely those who are uncomfortable with the literal meanings stated.
You can take whatever word you choose over the tree symbolizing Wisdom, all you want. The facts are all scripture supports what I said. Proverbs, ex....... And the the Lord further expounds upon exactly what I said. 1 Sirach and Baruch so forth and so on. And I do not want to hear the Messianic's do not accept those books either, they are only following Protestant lead who converted them.

Who follow in their Harlot Mothers steps in rejecting essential books in the story of salvation. The FACT IS AL ANCIENT HEBREWS during Christ's time and before did study these books. AND THEY ARE THE WORD. And as for Messianic's they use rabbinical practices and the Talmud which embraces Kabbalah which CHRIST in the letters to the Churches addresses and calls"Those deep things of satan".

So, if scripture never speaks in symbolism's which denotes greater things then you miss out on many mysteries. And those mysteries ONLY the Holy Spirit reveals. The OC ark too is a symbolism of something seen in heaven that is greater because it is in the heavenlies.
 
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#95
To me it sounds symbolic not because of the words used but the setting. A few points i have been wondering:

1. The garden of Eden and therefore the tree of life was on earth somewhere. When Adam and Eve were banished, an angel with a flaming sword was placed to prevent them from accessing this tree.
The question is- what happened to this tree? did it die like other physical trees? if it dies then it can not be the tree of life anymore can it?

2. The bible starts with story of this tree of life and also ends with this tree in Revelation again:

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

In between Genesis and Revelation, there has been heavy symbolism of 'a tree that doesn't bear fruit being cut down'.
Could we be the tree? and being a tree that doesn't bear fruit is the heart that doesn't know God?
I'm not sure but in Revelation, we see symbolism of this tree come out clearly.
Interesting, and at least you are pondering and think on the obvious.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#96
In the bible man was created and then death entered into the world.
So death was not "in nature" until the fall of man
Not exactly. To begin with no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation.

To say that death was not 'in nature' until the fall of man not only contradicts the laws of nature but also contradicts the doctrine of Christ which establishes that (death) originated from the beginning of this physical world in the day it came into existence.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,409
13,751
113
#97
All illness is from the original sin. Christ will conquer this in all who believe -TRULY BELIEVE IN HIS POWER. IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN HIM ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.
In this context, what is the relevance of your comment to mine?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,409
13,751
113
#98
I've heard this before. The idea that sickle cell anemia is somehow beneficial should never come from grown ups.
If you have a problem with the fact that SIA confers resistance to malaria, take it up with the medical profession.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#99
the father of the theory of evolution Darwin said, and I have his book, he said "If I can not witness signs of evolution in my lifetime then I will conclude that all my theories are false"

well guess what? He didnt witness evolution so according to the inventor of evolution theory it is false, yet so many still believe it....


https://www.newsweek.com/dinosaur-era-frilled-shark-insane-teeth-found-portugal-708764
Updated | The rare frilled shark is considered a “living fossil” because evidence of its existence dates back to at least 80 million years ago. This summer, researchers found one alive and thriving off the coast of Portugal, uncovering more clues about the resilience of this ancient sea creature.
The researchers who discovered the shark off the Algarve coast were working on a European Union project in the area, the BBC reported. The goal of the project was to "minimize unwanted catches in commercial fishing," the researchers told SIC Noticisas TV, as the BBC noted, but the team unknowingly unearthed one of the rarest and most ancient animals on the planet.
Scientists believe the frilled shark has remained the same, both inside and out, since the Cretaceous Period, when the Tyrannosaurus rex and Triceratops still roamed the planet. The creature, known by scientists as Chlamydoselachus anguineus, is incredibly simple and unevolved, most likely due to the lack of nutrients found in its deep-sea dwellings. A Japanese study of the shark found in Suruga Bay, Japan, revealed that its diet is 61 percent cephalopods—the class to which squids and octopus belong.

The BBC also reported on the annual migration of the flying penguins from S. Africa to Antartica.....Whoopie

 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,409
13,751
113
Not exactly. To begin with no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation.

To say that death was not 'in nature' until the fall of man not only contradicts the laws of nature but also contradicts the doctrine of Christ which establishes that (death) originated from the beginning of this physical world in the day it came into existence.
What is the relevance of the portion in bold?