Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I was referring to this scripture which the Pharisees had rejected. I didn't write this. But I can certainly understand it.
1 Sam. 15:
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
I'm not sure how this scripture goes against anything Jesus taught.
The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time clearly didn't consider these Words. The Priesthood "works of the Law" was the center of their religion. I'm not sure how posting this or speaking about this is "No longer walking in love".
but I do appreciate the tone of your reply and I will go over my post again and make sure I have not relied on my word's, but the Word's of the God of the Bible.
thanks for the heads up.
1 Sam. 15:
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
I'm not sure how this scripture goes against anything Jesus taught.
The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time clearly didn't consider these Words. The Priesthood "works of the Law" was the center of their religion. I'm not sure how posting this or speaking about this is "No longer walking in love".
but I do appreciate the tone of your reply and I will go over my post again and make sure I have not relied on my word's, but the Word's of the God of the Bible.
thanks for the heads up.
Not sure the Christ would want me to take your interpretation of this one sentence and use it to erase all His Word's.
How would I answer Him?
"Study Man, didn't I tell you these Pharisees were serving satan, and had rejected My Father and His Instructions". But my Lord, DEcon said they were following your Commandments blameless".
But then I would have to remember, it wasn't Decon who died for me. It was the Word which became Flesh who told me flat out that those religious men who ridiculed, persecuted, and killed anyone who showed them HIS WORDS, were NOT following God's Laws as decon preaches, but had created their own doctrines from the commandments of man.
Nothing personal Decon, but I'm sticking with the Christ on this one.
How would I answer Him?
"Study Man, didn't I tell you these Pharisees were serving satan, and had rejected My Father and His Instructions". But my Lord, DEcon said they were following your Commandments blameless".
But then I would have to remember, it wasn't Decon who died for me. It was the Word which became Flesh who told me flat out that those religious men who ridiculed, persecuted, and killed anyone who showed them HIS WORDS, were NOT following God's Laws as decon preaches, but had created their own doctrines from the commandments of man.
Nothing personal Decon, but I'm sticking with the Christ on this one.
With regards to your response that ended with your first question.
I see no issues or disagreement with your response, other than that you thought I was mocking you, actually not thought but believed I was.
You say we are to keep Gods commandments.
The only issue I would say I have with this is if you believe that we must keep Gods commandments in order to be saved.
Yes Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commands"
So if someone loves Jesus they will strive to keep his commandments, to be like him.
Now if someone professes to love Jesus but has no interest in walking in the way he has asked us to, then it needs to be addressed.
We are to come alongside to find out why.
If it becomes apparent that there may be an issue that is causing a stumbling block and they need help then wash with them.
One of my issues was gambling. A big big gambling problem. The cause of the effect needed dealing with. It was dealt with and my addiction went in the click of a finger.
Now if I went to someone who suffered the addiction but wanted no help and said I can gamble all I want and it's forgiven I would talk about Romans 5-6.
God's grace is not a license to sin. If they reject that then time to walk away.
However if whilst walking with them and they stumbled but called out to Jesus would I reject them?
No no no.
So maybe you can sum up in a few sentences what the commandments are they we are to keep, and your thoughts on the Sabbath.
Can you also respond to my question about the laws/commandments that Abraham kept.
Jesus himself gave approx 45-50 commands whilst on earth.
I see no issues or disagreement with your response, other than that you thought I was mocking you, actually not thought but believed I was.
You say we are to keep Gods commandments.
The only issue I would say I have with this is if you believe that we must keep Gods commandments in order to be saved.
Yes Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commands"
So if someone loves Jesus they will strive to keep his commandments, to be like him.
Now if someone professes to love Jesus but has no interest in walking in the way he has asked us to, then it needs to be addressed.
We are to come alongside to find out why.
If it becomes apparent that there may be an issue that is causing a stumbling block and they need help then wash with them.
One of my issues was gambling. A big big gambling problem. The cause of the effect needed dealing with. It was dealt with and my addiction went in the click of a finger.
Now if I went to someone who suffered the addiction but wanted no help and said I can gamble all I want and it's forgiven I would talk about Romans 5-6.
God's grace is not a license to sin. If they reject that then time to walk away.
However if whilst walking with them and they stumbled but called out to Jesus would I reject them?
No no no.
So maybe you can sum up in a few sentences what the commandments are they we are to keep, and your thoughts on the Sabbath.
Can you also respond to my question about the laws/commandments that Abraham kept.
Jesus himself gave approx 45-50 commands whilst on earth.
I dunno how many times I've already pointed this out to you.
I dunno why you hate the truth of it so much.
Leviticus 24:16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, [and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name [of the LORD], shall be put to death.
in their unbelief, having zeal but not according to knowledge, they persecute His people just as they persecuted Him.
I dunno why you hate the truth of it so much.
Leviticus 24:16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, [and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name [of the LORD], shall be put to death.
in their unbelief, having zeal but not according to knowledge, they persecute His people just as they persecuted Him.
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yes "touching the Law as a Pharisee"
is using it as a cloak for sin, twisting it, manuipulating it, makeing "loopholes"
example:
Mark 7:
8You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
9And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’
11But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)d—
12then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
13thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
is using it as a cloak for sin, twisting it, manuipulating it, makeing "loopholes"
example:
Mark 7:
8You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
9And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’
11But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)d—
12then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
13thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
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I posted what is below to show again that they twist the Law and make their own...
Someone threatens their religious rule? Yell "blasphemy!" and murder or imprison them...
This is not following the Law, this is perverting the Law...
Exactly what Yahshua accused them of EVERY time He encountered them...
Someone threatens their religious rule? Yell "blasphemy!" and murder or imprison them...
This is not following the Law, this is perverting the Law...
Exactly what Yahshua accused them of EVERY time He encountered them...
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,
THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)
PAUL’S QUESTION IS:
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
HE ALSO SAID,
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.
Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.
Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.
Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.
1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)
PAUL’S QUESTION IS:
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
HE ALSO SAID,
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.
Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.
Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.
Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.
1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)
SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.
THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.
JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)
WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?
WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)
IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?
JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?
GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)
NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?
Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.
ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?
DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..
"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.
THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.
JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)
WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?
WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)
IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?
JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?
GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)
NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?
Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.
ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?
DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..
"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
="BillG, post: 3691661, member: 252071"]
Actually it isn't me who says we should follow God's instructions in this world. It is the God of the Bible. This same Bible also says we must "repent" to be saved. And repent means change. If we have to repent because we didn't listen to God's instruction, rather, rejected them, then it follows that our change should not include continuing in that rejection of God's instruction.
I would think excuses for rejecting God's instruction would be obvious. We don't really believe, like Eve, and allowed voices, other than that of our God, to influence us. Something Jesus, as our perfect example, did not do. We have an example of this in His word. "I believe, help me in my unbelief".
We have "other" voices preaching things contrary to God's Word every day, especially from religious man. If we don't really "believe" in God, then we might listen and allow other voices, who also use parts of God's Word as did the serpent to Eve, influence us into being convinced of things that are not true like: "Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws" "Jesus came to save us from God's unjust instructions" etc. etc. When we allow ourselves to be "baptized" in His word, immersed in the Word of God for instruction, rather than religious tradition of men, He said He would help expose the deception in our minds and lead us to all truth. Most people don't really believe this.
I'm not sure your point here. Jesus said "Many" will call Him Lord, Lord.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? (Addictions?) and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I think about the very first example of deception the Christ had written for our admonition. Paul also referred us back to this verse.
Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Isn't it fascinating that the very first example of deception was from another voice who used Parts of God's Word. Not "EVERY WORD OF GOD" as Jesus said we are to live by, but just parts of God's Word. Don't you find this telling?
Now that Eve was listening to the other voice, the serpent continues.
Gen. 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The very first deception given to mankind was the lie "You are Saved" already. You are already all set. There are billions of people in the world who call Jesus Lord, Lord. They all have one thing in common, they have all been convinced they are saved. The mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, the Pharisees, also believed they were saved. "Abraham is our father". I find this connection amazing. Don't you?
Then it goes in for the kill.
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, ( in the day you reject God's instructions) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The other voice then deceived Eve into believing that God's instruction was against her. That He wanted her "burdened, blinded, a prisoner, not free. But the serpent said if you listen to me and not Him, THEN you will see the truth. Then you shall be "free" from the instructions of this unjust God who just wants to burden you and keep you blind.
I get this lesson perfectly. I understand it, and I see it played out every day in my life. I thank God so much for His Word's, and for giving me the ability to SEE them. I am so thankful that for whatever reason, I "Believed" in Him enough to not only hear His Sayings, but to follow them with all my heart, and with all my soul.
I am not perfect, I fall. But thanks to His Tender Mercies, I am forgiven and given another chance to learn from Him and serve Him. This is why I "test the spirits" and why I don't listen to all the other voices out there.
Sure.
We should follow God's Commandments. He said you already know them.
My thoughts on the Sabbath??????? Well Jesus said it was created for man. It is one of God's Holy, Good and Just Commandments. And He is the Lord of it. He also said it was "lawful" to do Good on His Sabbath. And given 25 years of striving to keep it I can surely see why He commanded it. I think it's one of those "you had to be there" kind of things though.
It is my understanding that Abraham was blessed "Because" He kept God Commandments, and as it seem to imply in God's word, he didn't listen to any other voices as did Eve.
Well, the Word which became Flesh gave us a lot more that just 45-50 commands. He gave us the Law and Prophets as examples of the human condition and Prophesies of "what was to come". He created Holy days to show His Salvation plan which started with Pass over. (Not end there as many "other voices" preach.) "Even these are MY Feasts" He said. He came to Abraham and Abraham was glad to see Him. He did a lot of things as the Light of the Earth that Cain and other men hated before they hated me.
I hope this clears any confusion you may have about my belief.
I would think excuses for rejecting God's instruction would be obvious. We don't really believe, like Eve, and allowed voices, other than that of our God, to influence us. Something Jesus, as our perfect example, did not do. We have an example of this in His word. "I believe, help me in my unbelief".
We have "other" voices preaching things contrary to God's Word every day, especially from religious man. If we don't really "believe" in God, then we might listen and allow other voices, who also use parts of God's Word as did the serpent to Eve, influence us into being convinced of things that are not true like: "Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws" "Jesus came to save us from God's unjust instructions" etc. etc. When we allow ourselves to be "baptized" in His word, immersed in the Word of God for instruction, rather than religious tradition of men, He said He would help expose the deception in our minds and lead us to all truth. Most people don't really believe this.
I'm not sure your point here. Jesus said "Many" will call Him Lord, Lord.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? (Addictions?) and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I think about the very first example of deception the Christ had written for our admonition. Paul also referred us back to this verse.
Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Isn't it fascinating that the very first example of deception was from another voice who used Parts of God's Word. Not "EVERY WORD OF GOD" as Jesus said we are to live by, but just parts of God's Word. Don't you find this telling?
Now that Eve was listening to the other voice, the serpent continues.
Gen. 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The very first deception given to mankind was the lie "You are Saved" already. You are already all set. There are billions of people in the world who call Jesus Lord, Lord. They all have one thing in common, they have all been convinced they are saved. The mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, the Pharisees, also believed they were saved. "Abraham is our father". I find this connection amazing. Don't you?
Then it goes in for the kill.
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, ( in the day you reject God's instructions) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The other voice then deceived Eve into believing that God's instruction was against her. That He wanted her "burdened, blinded, a prisoner, not free. But the serpent said if you listen to me and not Him, THEN you will see the truth. Then you shall be "free" from the instructions of this unjust God who just wants to burden you and keep you blind.
I get this lesson perfectly. I understand it, and I see it played out every day in my life. I thank God so much for His Word's, and for giving me the ability to SEE them. I am so thankful that for whatever reason, I "Believed" in Him enough to not only hear His Sayings, but to follow them with all my heart, and with all my soul.
I am not perfect, I fall. But thanks to His Tender Mercies, I am forgiven and given another chance to learn from Him and serve Him. This is why I "test the spirits" and why I don't listen to all the other voices out there.
Sure.
We should follow God's Commandments. He said you already know them.
My thoughts on the Sabbath??????? Well Jesus said it was created for man. It is one of God's Holy, Good and Just Commandments. And He is the Lord of it. He also said it was "lawful" to do Good on His Sabbath. And given 25 years of striving to keep it I can surely see why He commanded it. I think it's one of those "you had to be there" kind of things though.
It is my understanding that Abraham was blessed "Because" He kept God Commandments, and as it seem to imply in God's word, he didn't listen to any other voices as did Eve.
Well, the Word which became Flesh gave us a lot more that just 45-50 commands. He gave us the Law and Prophets as examples of the human condition and Prophesies of "what was to come". He created Holy days to show His Salvation plan which started with Pass over. (Not end there as many "other voices" preach.) "Even these are MY Feasts" He said. He came to Abraham and Abraham was glad to see Him. He did a lot of things as the Light of the Earth that Cain and other men hated before they hated me.
I hope this clears any confusion you may have about my belief.
U
Repent does not simply mean change as in change one's behaviour.
"Metanoia" in the fullness of the word, means to change one's mind.
meta=after; noeo=to think. Put the two together and the effect of meta was “after the fact” or “afterwards.”
Essentially, it means to think about something later on and have a reversal of opinion about it. Thus, repentance meant “to change the mind.” Specifically—to change the mind about Christ.
"Metanoia" in the fullness of the word, means to change one's mind.
meta=after; noeo=to think. Put the two together and the effect of meta was “after the fact” or “afterwards.”
Essentially, it means to think about something later on and have a reversal of opinion about it. Thus, repentance meant “to change the mind.” Specifically—to change the mind about Christ.
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I see, so Jesus was just an innocent victim of a misunderstanding about one of God's unjust and burdensome Laws.
So when Jesus said:
Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men
Was He just ignorant that the Pharisees were really following God's Law to the letter?
Why this is truly fascinating.
Apparently the Pope knows this, Benny Hinn, Jack Van Impe, you, but not the Jesus of the Bible.
I'm not sure I'm buying this one Post, it's out there even for you.
So when Jesus said:
Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men
Was He just ignorant that the Pharisees were really following God's Law to the letter?
Why this is truly fascinating.
Apparently the Pope knows this, Benny Hinn, Jack Van Impe, you, but not the Jesus of the Bible.
I'm not sure I'm buying this one Post, it's out there even for you.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
I don't believe we can have Mercy without God's Love. When we reject His Love, we reject His Mercy. No Mercy, no Salvation.