BIBLE VERSES EXPLAINING SOME TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
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Well if you equate speaking about an institution as an attack I really cannot even begin relate to that I have no emotional attachment to any high profile .....organization, minister, priest, preacher, published bible teacher, internet blogger or any other circus performer out there as they sling mud at each other over the internet.
I defend the pure simple Gospel, I have no institution, sect, cult, denomination to defend, however if I think an institution or person has erred from the simple Gospel I will speak because we are commanded by Jesus to do so.
I speak the truth as a former Catholic, I never once heard the pure simple Gospel of salvation ever taught or preached, I even stuck around for ten years looking for it after I was born again (not at the baptismal fount as is so wrongly taught) and truly regenerated by God. What a dismissal enterprise that was, most priests argued and defended their works and sacraments as means of grace doctrines.
You defend a group of men, I defend Jesus and His free gift offer of salvation in real time, in this life, regeneration, justification and positional sanctification.
No sacraments, no works, just one belief in His completed work on the cross for you.
Thus Paul states very clearly we are saved by Grace through Faith it is a Gift from God.
You hear that,........ that is the good news of salvation.... it is a gift directly from God to each every individual person who believes in Christ and his work for them personally!
Soon as one puts any human work in the equation there is no salvation.
Jesus does not save those who are trying to save themselves.
That is the gospel and there are many of us on the discussion board that know this, so we reject anything that deviants from the simple Gospel truth.
That is the gospel...... never once said by a priest in my presence or preached from the pulpit.
Now you know and you are accountable for what you know.
If you want to be led by your emotional attachments that is your choice.
Goodbye
I defend the pure simple Gospel, I have no institution, sect, cult, denomination to defend, however if I think an institution or person has erred from the simple Gospel I will speak because we are commanded by Jesus to do so.
I speak the truth as a former Catholic, I never once heard the pure simple Gospel of salvation ever taught or preached, I even stuck around for ten years looking for it after I was born again (not at the baptismal fount as is so wrongly taught) and truly regenerated by God. What a dismissal enterprise that was, most priests argued and defended their works and sacraments as means of grace doctrines.
You defend a group of men, I defend Jesus and His free gift offer of salvation in real time, in this life, regeneration, justification and positional sanctification.
No sacraments, no works, just one belief in His completed work on the cross for you.
Thus Paul states very clearly we are saved by Grace through Faith it is a Gift from God.
You hear that,........ that is the good news of salvation.... it is a gift directly from God to each every individual person who believes in Christ and his work for them personally!
Soon as one puts any human work in the equation there is no salvation.
Jesus does not save those who are trying to save themselves.
That is the gospel and there are many of us on the discussion board that know this, so we reject anything that deviants from the simple Gospel truth.
That is the gospel...... never once said by a priest in my presence or preached from the pulpit.
Now you know and you are accountable for what you know.
If you want to be led by your emotional attachments that is your choice.
Goodbye
The Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5
, 9
), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings, see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
As common priest, I celebrate Mass in union with the main celebrant. The common priests are in union with the main celebrant and we are all in union with the local bishop who is in union with all the bishops of the world including the Pope, who is a bishop.
Dissecting the laity from the "institution" is analogous to removing children from the "institutional" parents and grandparents. The hierarchy of the Church IS NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY from it's members, because we are all priests.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
1141 The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, "by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices."9 This "common priesthood" is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:10
Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people," have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.11
1144 In the celebration of the sacraments it is thus the whole assembly that is leitourgos, each according to his function, but in the "unity of the Spirit" who acts in all. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy."15
1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
1305 This "character" perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."122
1535 Through these sacraments those already consecrated by Baptism and Confirmation1 for the common priesthood of all the faithful can receive particular consecrations. Those who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders are consecrated in Christ's name "to feed the Church by the word and grace of God."2 On their part, "Christian spouses are fortified and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and dignity of their state by a special sacrament."3
1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.
1591 The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the "common priesthood of the faithful." Based on this common priesthood and ordered to its service, there exists another participation in the mission of Christ: the ministry conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community.
"I love Catholics. I just hate their institution."
Is similar to:
'I love this food, I just hate the authority of the chef who made the recipe."
20 years a spectator...hmm... never heard the gospel...
As common priest, I celebrate Mass in union with the main celebrant. The common priests are in union with the main celebrant and we are all in union with the local bishop who is in union with all the bishops of the world including the Pope, who is a bishop.
Dissecting the laity from the "institution" is analogous to removing children from the "institutional" parents and grandparents. The hierarchy of the Church IS NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY from it's members, because we are all priests.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
1141 The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, "by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices."9 This "common priesthood" is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:10
Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people," have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.11
1144 In the celebration of the sacraments it is thus the whole assembly that is leitourgos, each according to his function, but in the "unity of the Spirit" who acts in all. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy."15
1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
1305 This "character" perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."122
1535 Through these sacraments those already consecrated by Baptism and Confirmation1 for the common priesthood of all the faithful can receive particular consecrations. Those who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders are consecrated in Christ's name "to feed the Church by the word and grace of God."2 On their part, "Christian spouses are fortified and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and dignity of their state by a special sacrament."3
1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.
1591 The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the "common priesthood of the faithful." Based on this common priesthood and ordered to its service, there exists another participation in the mission of Christ: the ministry conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community.
"I love Catholics. I just hate their institution."
Is similar to:
'I love this food, I just hate the authority of the chef who made the recipe."
20 years a spectator...hmm... never heard the gospel...
Thus Paul states very clearly we are saved by Grace through Faith it is a Gift from God. is a Catholic teaching we have had for 2000 years, you borrowed it from us.
"Works salvation" or "works righteousness" is called Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born.
What exactly did you teach, and what is the name of the place you claim you taught? This is basic, basic catechism stuff. Your plastic anti-Catholic view of "works" tells me that's 2 lies about your phony testimony.
"Works salvation" or "works righteousness" is called Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born.
What exactly did you teach, and what is the name of the place you claim you taught? This is basic, basic catechism stuff. Your plastic anti-Catholic view of "works" tells me that's 2 lies about your phony testimony.
The Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5
, 9
), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings, see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
As common priest, I celebrate Mass in union with the main celebrant. The common priests are in union with the main celebrant and we are all in union with the local bishop who is in union with all the bishops of the world including the Pope, who is a bishop.
Dissecting the laity from the "institution" is analogous to removing children from the "institutional" parents and grandparents. The hierarchy of the Church IS NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY from it's members, because we are all priests.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
1141 The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, "by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices."9 This "common priesthood" is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:10
Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people," have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.11
1144 In the celebration of the sacraments it is thus the whole assembly that is leitourgos, each according to his function, but in the "unity of the Spirit" who acts in all. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy."15
1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
1305 This "character" perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."122
1535 Through these sacraments those already consecrated by Baptism and Confirmation1 for the common priesthood of all the faithful can receive particular consecrations. Those who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders are consecrated in Christ's name "to feed the Church by the word and grace of God."2 On their part, "Christian spouses are fortified and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and dignity of their state by a special sacrament."3
1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.
1591 The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the "common priesthood of the faithful." Based on this common priesthood and ordered to its service, there exists another participation in the mission of Christ: the ministry conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community.
"I love Catholics. I just hate their institution."
Is similar to:
'I love this food, I just hate the authority of the chef who made the recipe."
20 years a spectator...hmm... never heard the gospel...
As common priest, I celebrate Mass in union with the main celebrant. The common priests are in union with the main celebrant and we are all in union with the local bishop who is in union with all the bishops of the world including the Pope, who is a bishop.
Dissecting the laity from the "institution" is analogous to removing children from the "institutional" parents and grandparents. The hierarchy of the Church IS NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY from it's members, because we are all priests.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2.
1141 The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, "by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices."9 This "common priesthood" is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:10
Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people," have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.11
1144 In the celebration of the sacraments it is thus the whole assembly that is leitourgos, each according to his function, but in the "unity of the Spirit" who acts in all. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister or layman, who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy."15
1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
1305 This "character" perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."122
1535 Through these sacraments those already consecrated by Baptism and Confirmation1 for the common priesthood of all the faithful can receive particular consecrations. Those who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders are consecrated in Christ's name "to feed the Church by the word and grace of God."2 On their part, "Christian spouses are fortified and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and dignity of their state by a special sacrament."3
1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.
1591 The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the "common priesthood of the faithful." Based on this common priesthood and ordered to its service, there exists another participation in the mission of Christ: the ministry conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community.
"I love Catholics. I just hate their institution."
Is similar to:
'I love this food, I just hate the authority of the chef who made the recipe."
20 years a spectator...hmm... never heard the gospel...
Why not go to other catholic like your wife or else.
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I'll tell you all about my born again experiences when you admit your testimony about your 20 years as a PRACTICING Catholic and never heard the gospel the whole time were gross exaggerations or big fat lies. Catholics who PRACTICE their faith fall in love with the Church. I submit you never did.
Getting you to answer my questions is like pulling a tusk out of an elephant. Furthermore, I asked you how old were you when when you turned your back on Jesus in the Eucharist. Is it because you never received It in the first place? So if I have to ask 3 times for one answer, why should I answer your questions? And you have the nerve to call ME a troll???
.+..
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 – many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by “works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 – Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking “Or is God the God of the Jews only?” It does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 4:9-17 – Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 – righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, “works of law” does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 11:6,11 – justification is no longer based on “works” of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 – Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, “works of law” are no longer required.
Acts 13:39 – Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.
Rom. 3:20,28 – in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, “works of the law” can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.
Rom. 4:3-4 – Paul refers to works apart from God’s grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.
Rom. 6:23 – this is why Paul says the “wages” of sin is death. Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot obligate God to pay us for our works; otherwise, we are in a system of law, not a system of grace.
Rom. 11:6 – Paul says that if justification is now based on grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.
Rom. 11:35 – it is impossible to obligate God for payment, and sinful to think we can. We cannot do “works of the law” to obligate God. We are not in a debtor/creditor relationship with God. He owes us nothing. Instead, we are in a Father/child covenant relationship with Him, and He will reward us for being faithful.
Gal. 6:8-9 – the earnings referred to here are from God’s grace. It is a free gift, not an obligation. This underscores that our relationship with God is Father/son and daughter, not employer/employee.
Rom. 8:14-17; Heb. 12:5-11 – these texts further emphasize our father/son relationship with God. Our relationship is familial, not legal.
Rom. 7:6 – we are now discharged from the “law,” that is “works of the law.” We now serve God in faith working in love.
Rom. 10:4 – Christ is the end of the “law.” We are now justified by faith in Christ, not faith in the law.
Rom. 13:8,10 – loving one another is fulfilling the new law of Christ. This is internal and personal, not external and impersonal.
Gal. 2:16 – again, man is not justified by “works of the law.” Again, Paul is referring to the Mosaic law and anything which views God as a debtor to us.
Gal. 2:19,21 – justification “through the law” means justification through the Mosaic law or a legal system that makes God a debtor to us.
Gal. 3:10 – shows that “works of the law” refers to the “book of the law” which was the strict and impersonal Mosaic law of the Old Testament.
Gal. 3:17 – this “law” came 430 years after Abraham. So “works of law” here clearly refer to the Mosaic law, not “good works.”
Gal. 3:13; 4:4-5 – in fact, the “works of the law” (not good works in God’s grace) is a curse from which Christ freed us.
Gal. 3:19 – these “works of law” were only good for showing us our sinfulness, but not teaching us how to live.
Gal. 5:4,14; 6:2 – the “law” is of no use. The new law is the law of Christ, which is faith working through love.
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
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Getting you to answer my questions is like pulling a tusk out of an elephant. Furthermore, I asked you how old were you when when you turned your back on Jesus in the Eucharist. Is it because you never received It in the first place? So if I have to ask 3 times for one answer, why should I answer your questions? And you have the nerve to call ME a troll???
.+..
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 – many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by “works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 – Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking “Or is God the God of the Jews only?” It does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 4:9-17 – Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 – righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, “works of law” does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 11:6,11 – justification is no longer based on “works” of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 – Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, “works of law” are no longer required.
Acts 13:39 – Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.
Rom. 3:20,28 – in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, “works of the law” can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.
Rom. 4:3-4 – Paul refers to works apart from God’s grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.
Rom. 6:23 – this is why Paul says the “wages” of sin is death. Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot obligate God to pay us for our works; otherwise, we are in a system of law, not a system of grace.
Rom. 11:6 – Paul says that if justification is now based on grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.
Rom. 11:35 – it is impossible to obligate God for payment, and sinful to think we can. We cannot do “works of the law” to obligate God. We are not in a debtor/creditor relationship with God. He owes us nothing. Instead, we are in a Father/child covenant relationship with Him, and He will reward us for being faithful.
Gal. 6:8-9 – the earnings referred to here are from God’s grace. It is a free gift, not an obligation. This underscores that our relationship with God is Father/son and daughter, not employer/employee.
Rom. 8:14-17; Heb. 12:5-11 – these texts further emphasize our father/son relationship with God. Our relationship is familial, not legal.
Rom. 7:6 – we are now discharged from the “law,” that is “works of the law.” We now serve God in faith working in love.
Rom. 10:4 – Christ is the end of the “law.” We are now justified by faith in Christ, not faith in the law.
Rom. 13:8,10 – loving one another is fulfilling the new law of Christ. This is internal and personal, not external and impersonal.
Gal. 2:16 – again, man is not justified by “works of the law.” Again, Paul is referring to the Mosaic law and anything which views God as a debtor to us.
Gal. 2:19,21 – justification “through the law” means justification through the Mosaic law or a legal system that makes God a debtor to us.
Gal. 3:10 – shows that “works of the law” refers to the “book of the law” which was the strict and impersonal Mosaic law of the Old Testament.
Gal. 3:17 – this “law” came 430 years after Abraham. So “works of law” here clearly refer to the Mosaic law, not “good works.”
Gal. 3:13; 4:4-5 – in fact, the “works of the law” (not good works in God’s grace) is a curse from which Christ freed us.
Gal. 3:19 – these “works of law” were only good for showing us our sinfulness, but not teaching us how to live.
Gal. 5:4,14; 6:2 – the “law” is of no use. The new law is the law of Christ, which is faith working through love.
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
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Yep, double standart, mean Lie. Catholic is liar. We have to tell them to wake up, why follow liar religion.
Catholic not love them, catholic Lie to them and the father of liar is satan.
We love them because they are a victim of Lucifer.
Recently In Indonesia there ia an erquake. More than 200 people die, more than 400 thausand lost their home. Government help them. A Lot of people from all over the world help the victim.
Catholic is a victim, If we not help them, there Will be billion of victim lost their spiritual live.
The lost is Lot greater than Indonesians earthquake. Not only 400 thausand lost their heavenly home, but Will be billion.
Catholic not love them, catholic Lie to them and the father of liar is satan.
We love them because they are a victim of Lucifer.
Recently In Indonesia there ia an erquake. More than 200 people die, more than 400 thausand lost their home. Government help them. A Lot of people from all over the world help the victim.
Catholic is a victim, If we not help them, there Will be billion of victim lost their spiritual live.
The lost is Lot greater than Indonesians earthquake. Not only 400 thausand lost their heavenly home, but Will be billion.
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I do not remember setting up "quid pro quo" with you.
You have no answer then, a person is born again (born from above) only once.
I will further elaborate on the truth that I never heard the gospel clearly proclaimed in the Catholic Church or its educational system
by stating that even as I told various priests and other Catholics the simple Gospel they rejected it as a direct contradiction to
Catholic dogma which states that grace is received via the sacraments.
Furthermore, which you will also find insulting, but nonetheless completely true, it that those in my family and my friends that received the gospel through my witness and testimony and became born (born from above) all eventually left the Catholic Church and its false teachings. Praise God!!!
Born again believers actually understand this completely. Have you visited the Not by Works thread, you should you might learn something.
All that work, expounding on Romans all of which I knew, however I am a Gentile not a Jew therefore I was never under the Law.
Now having said that the reference of law or works of the law in Rom 2:12-16 refers to moral or good works done by anyone even some godless gentiles with conscience.
You seemed to have missed that?
All are sinners, all have fallen short Romans 3:23 This means that both Gentile and Jew are now in the same place they can only be saved by receiving the free gift of salvation directly from God, by Grace through faith. The word grace refers to His love.
All who are born again are justified, not just those who were under the law, the gentile is justified as well because they were given a conscience through which they knew right and wrong.
There is saving faith and continuing faith you need to differentiate the two.
There are no works of grace, grace is God's love towards us.
Catholic theology as it is presently will never stand up to the truth that is clearly presented in the scripture.
You have no answer then, a person is born again (born from above) only once.
I will further elaborate on the truth that I never heard the gospel clearly proclaimed in the Catholic Church or its educational system
by stating that even as I told various priests and other Catholics the simple Gospel they rejected it as a direct contradiction to
Catholic dogma which states that grace is received via the sacraments.
Furthermore, which you will also find insulting, but nonetheless completely true, it that those in my family and my friends that received the gospel through my witness and testimony and became born (born from above) all eventually left the Catholic Church and its false teachings. Praise God!!!
Born again believers actually understand this completely. Have you visited the Not by Works thread, you should you might learn something.
All that work, expounding on Romans all of which I knew, however I am a Gentile not a Jew therefore I was never under the Law.
Now having said that the reference of law or works of the law in Rom 2:12-16 refers to moral or good works done by anyone even some godless gentiles with conscience.
You seemed to have missed that?
All are sinners, all have fallen short Romans 3:23 This means that both Gentile and Jew are now in the same place they can only be saved by receiving the free gift of salvation directly from God, by Grace through faith. The word grace refers to His love.
All who are born again are justified, not just those who were under the law, the gentile is justified as well because they were given a conscience through which they knew right and wrong.
There is saving faith and continuing faith you need to differentiate the two.
There are no works of grace, grace is God's love towards us.
Catholic theology as it is presently will never stand up to the truth that is clearly presented in the scripture.
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I have been more that fair in giving you every opportunity to explain your lies. Instead you keep trying to bury them with the same boring reformist rhetoric that has been refuted a zillion times. I will leave you with a rhetorical question: What makes the suffering of a Christian different from the suffering of a non-Christian?
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
epostle,
Leave these people to their 'holier than thou' and 'better than thou' self-righteous delusions. They'll never get anything right or have anything good to say because they are indoctrinated to hate Catholics. They will continue to do as the devils want and that is question your faith in Christ, condemn you as they do me, and demonize others in the faith. It's common place for them to not only condemn Catholics, JW'S, SDA'S etc., but they also condemn and demonize ONE ANOTHER. That's how they build their sorry selves up! They have no love for Catholics let alone their own Protestant brothers and sisters. They don't understanding grace, faith, and works. They think that "all you have to do is believe" and there's no greater lie! They will never have a change of heart, never speak nice about Catholics or understand that Catholics are Children of God.
And that's they way the devils want it!
Some of them are so bent on questioning my salvation that they troll around and continue to bring the issue up on other threads. I'm sick of them and generally sick of Protestant evangelicals, especially the Calvinist and FundaMENTAList, and you should be too.
Leave these people to their 'holier than thou' and 'better than thou' self-righteous delusions. They'll never get anything right or have anything good to say because they are indoctrinated to hate Catholics. They will continue to do as the devils want and that is question your faith in Christ, condemn you as they do me, and demonize others in the faith. It's common place for them to not only condemn Catholics, JW'S, SDA'S etc., but they also condemn and demonize ONE ANOTHER. That's how they build their sorry selves up! They have no love for Catholics let alone their own Protestant brothers and sisters. They don't understanding grace, faith, and works. They think that "all you have to do is believe" and there's no greater lie! They will never have a change of heart, never speak nice about Catholics or understand that Catholics are Children of God.
And that's they way the devils want it!
Some of them are so bent on questioning my salvation that they troll around and continue to bring the issue up on other threads. I'm sick of them and generally sick of Protestant evangelicals, especially the Calvinist and FundaMENTAList, and you should be too.
To deny that Jesus gave His very own authority to sinful human beings is to deny the Great Commission. see Matthew 28:16-20
The three fold BIBLICAL episcopate, that you deny, was necessary for the canon of the Bible to developed, which you deny, and the writings of the Early Fathers who compiled the inspired books in the first place. You have nothing to do with them because none of them were sola scripturist Protestants.
That is illogical and self defeating, and you insult my heartfelt beliefs with ignorance and prejudice.
The three fold BIBLICAL episcopate, that you deny, was necessary for the canon of the Bible to developed, which you deny, and the writings of the Early Fathers who compiled the inspired books in the first place. You have nothing to do with them because none of them were sola scripturist Protestants.
That is illogical and self defeating, and you insult my heartfelt beliefs with ignorance and prejudice.
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"Reformist rhetoric" Yeah right both Luther and Calvin were schooled in Koine Greek and Hebrew.
Pope Leo X, ..... lets see......... his forte... uhmmm ....was being "engrossed in idle and selfish amusements"
Vaughan, Herbert M. (1908). The Medici Popes. London and New York.
If it soothes your troubled soul to call me a liar so be it, however, all your outbursts and scapegoating do nothing to disprove the inherent and systemic theological, historical, organizational errors of the Roman Church.
Believe what you want to believe I am fine with that...... but if you think evangelical Christians are going to buy your dogma of Queen Mary, sacraments, justification by works and grace we won't.
Pope Leo X, ..... lets see......... his forte... uhmmm ....was being "engrossed in idle and selfish amusements"
Vaughan, Herbert M. (1908). The Medici Popes. London and New York.
If it soothes your troubled soul to call me a liar so be it, however, all your outbursts and scapegoating do nothing to disprove the inherent and systemic theological, historical, organizational errors of the Roman Church.
Believe what you want to believe I am fine with that...... but if you think evangelical Christians are going to buy your dogma of Queen Mary, sacraments, justification by works and grace we won't.
My ignorometer is red lining!!!
We don't know who has never seen a good refutation of myths and lies. The ones who have seen the same explanations 1000 times are a waste of time. I have some good posts in the conspiracy thread, waiting for review.
So I am slowly getting away from the same boring arguments they have been losing for 500 years.
I spend 1/2 to an hour every day trying to keep up with so much good stuff. Dave Armstrong, my favorite apologist, emails a free newsletter every day. Facebook has a new "Truth of Catholicism" page.
I have a ever growing meme collection in my picture files.
I store good, succinct apologetic articles in my document file because the same stupid challenges come up 66 times a month.
Redemptive suffering is a foreign concept to almost everybody who isn't Catholic, and easily defended with Scripture.
They think Humanae Vitae is a vitamin tonic. That is the direction I plan on going.
Here is a sample:
Little girls do not grow up dreaming of hopping from bed to bed and contraception. They dream of a man who will sweep them off their feet and love them forever, and of having his many children. A cynicism born of the sexual revolution has brought emptiness to the hearts, wombs and lives of far too many modern women. This emptiness and pain can be avoided or redeemed and healed by the love of Christ and adherence to His teachings. The Catholic Church believes in such dreams because God wrote them on the human heart. And there are men who long for such a woman to love and cherish.
Real lovers want to give without reserve in God's own superabundance creating more hearts and lives to love. Contraception is like kissing through a screen door and real love cannot tolerate obstacles. Contraception breeds selfishness and separation that drives a wedge between husband and wife that kills love. Real lovers want their love to explode into the posterity of future generations for all eternity. This is the kind of passion and fulfillment God wants for His children. Contraception limits what should be boundless. It spits in the face of this glorious passion and love's true abandon; and that is why it is a sin. It seeks to "tame" love, thus killing it. The Catholic Church is the last bastion on earth of true romance. The modern world has suffocated love and made sex a thing of deadness.
We don't know who has never seen a good refutation of myths and lies. The ones who have seen the same explanations 1000 times are a waste of time. I have some good posts in the conspiracy thread, waiting for review.
So I am slowly getting away from the same boring arguments they have been losing for 500 years.
I spend 1/2 to an hour every day trying to keep up with so much good stuff. Dave Armstrong, my favorite apologist, emails a free newsletter every day. Facebook has a new "Truth of Catholicism" page.
I have a ever growing meme collection in my picture files.
I store good, succinct apologetic articles in my document file because the same stupid challenges come up 66 times a month.
Redemptive suffering is a foreign concept to almost everybody who isn't Catholic, and easily defended with Scripture.
They think Humanae Vitae is a vitamin tonic. That is the direction I plan on going.
Here is a sample:
Little girls do not grow up dreaming of hopping from bed to bed and contraception. They dream of a man who will sweep them off their feet and love them forever, and of having his many children. A cynicism born of the sexual revolution has brought emptiness to the hearts, wombs and lives of far too many modern women. This emptiness and pain can be avoided or redeemed and healed by the love of Christ and adherence to His teachings. The Catholic Church believes in such dreams because God wrote them on the human heart. And there are men who long for such a woman to love and cherish.
Real lovers want to give without reserve in God's own superabundance creating more hearts and lives to love. Contraception is like kissing through a screen door and real love cannot tolerate obstacles. Contraception breeds selfishness and separation that drives a wedge between husband and wife that kills love. Real lovers want their love to explode into the posterity of future generations for all eternity. This is the kind of passion and fulfillment God wants for His children. Contraception limits what should be boundless. It spits in the face of this glorious passion and love's true abandon; and that is why it is a sin. It seeks to "tame" love, thus killing it. The Catholic Church is the last bastion on earth of true romance. The modern world has suffocated love and made sex a thing of deadness.
I can tell you that I love my Catholic Church. I love the Sacraments, the people, my friend who's a priest, the history and its traditions. My good friend who is the Music Director at the Congregational Church I go to has inspired me to play music in Church. She plays piano and organ at two different Catholic Churches on Sundays and does a few weekday masses too. This Sunday she is serving at three and filling in for another good Catholic friend who is unable to cover every mass. Her husband is Catholic and he and her are the best. I love them both.
St. John's has the best music of any church in town.
Being recently retired, I have more time on my hands and Catholic mass is a great place to be mid-week. They have a mass everyday at several churches in my small NH city. It's the right thing to do since I'm seeking a closer walk with our LORD.
There's a Fundamentalist Baptist Church in town that has good music too. But they are so stuck up it's incredible. If you don't have a three piece suit on you're out of place! Plus they only have one service a week!
St. John's has the best music of any church in town.
Being recently retired, I have more time on my hands and Catholic mass is a great place to be mid-week. They have a mass everyday at several churches in my small NH city. It's the right thing to do since I'm seeking a closer walk with our LORD.
There's a Fundamentalist Baptist Church in town that has good music too. But they are so stuck up it's incredible. If you don't have a three piece suit on you're out of place! Plus they only have one service a week!
I hope you answer my question the same question that I ask 1000 time but you never answer.
Catholic Lie to you, she tell you islam worship Abraham God.
Tell me do you believe that Abraham God tell mohammad that Jesus not God?
If so why?
If you do not believe catholic, why not answer my question.
I remind you one more time, this is simple question and I repeat It 1000 time.
Catholic Lie to you, she tell you islam worship Abraham God.
Tell me do you believe that Abraham God tell mohammad that Jesus not God?
If so why?
If you do not believe catholic, why not answer my question.
I remind you one more time, this is simple question and I repeat It 1000 time.
To the new ones here in CC:
I posted this thread not because I want to promote my faith but instead I had posted this because I just want to answer all anti Catholic people's criticisms about the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
It is modus operandi of anti Catholics to primarily criticize our doctrines and then introduce and invite my brethren to join their respective groups.
especially in my country where Catholics are divided because of politics and some members of the clergy are siding with the enemies of the president whom the majority have voted. It is unavoidable that a lot of Catholics are starting to lose their faith in my Church.
Anti Catholic people took this advantage to start convincing and introducing their respective groups; they are starting it by criticizing our doctrines.
I as one of the Catholics, I will not simply just believe on their criticisms; I prefer to counter it.
If you, An anti Catholic reading this message don't know how to counter all of the defense I had posted on page one with your Bible knowledge, I think you should inform your bloggers or even online evangelists to start thinking how to refute them with Biblical verses.
If your bloggers or online evangelists now have refutations using the Bible, you can post the sites if you want.
I posted this thread not because I want to promote my faith but instead I had posted this because I just want to answer all anti Catholic people's criticisms about the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
It is modus operandi of anti Catholics to primarily criticize our doctrines and then introduce and invite my brethren to join their respective groups.
especially in my country where Catholics are divided because of politics and some members of the clergy are siding with the enemies of the president whom the majority have voted. It is unavoidable that a lot of Catholics are starting to lose their faith in my Church.
Anti Catholic people took this advantage to start convincing and introducing their respective groups; they are starting it by criticizing our doctrines.
I as one of the Catholics, I will not simply just believe on their criticisms; I prefer to counter it.
If you, An anti Catholic reading this message don't know how to counter all of the defense I had posted on page one with your Bible knowledge, I think you should inform your bloggers or even online evangelists to start thinking how to refute them with Biblical verses.
If your bloggers or online evangelists now have refutations using the Bible, you can post the sites if you want.