God and Pancreatic Cancer

[Dino246]

False. Read this carefully and think about it.

1 CORINTHIANS 11 KJB
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [CONDEMNATION] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. [DIE]

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Your logic doesn't follow. The passage does not state or even imply that sickness symbolizes sin and evil; but rather, that it is a result of sin and evil.

 

[newton3003]

Dino246 posted: ... God uses all things, whether good or bad, to bring about good...

***So, He puts things into motion, in the sense that he steers whatever started, to His ends.

 

[Dino246]

Dino246 posted: ... God uses all things, whether good or bad, to bring about good...

***So, He puts things into motion, in the sense that he steers whatever started, to His ends.

Steering is rather ineffective with something not in motion already. God does not set evil into motion. Steering and initiating are not the same thing. If they were, then humans could rightly absolve themselves of responsibility for their sin.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Steering is rather ineffective with something not in motion already. God does not set evil into motion. Steering and initiating are not the same thing. If they were, then humans could rightly absolve themselves of responsibility for their sin.

I disagree somewhat.. Let's see, God allowed sin in heaven. He allowed sin to enter the Garden of Eden. He allowed sin to enter this world. So He DID "set evil into motion" in the sense that He allows it to happen for purposes that only He understands..

Why He allowed sin into an already perfect world, is beyond me, but.... that's another subject for another thread..

 

[Dino246]

I disagree somewhat.. Let's see, God allowed sin in heaven. He allowed sin to enter the Garden of Eden. He allowed sin to enter this world. So He DID "set evil into motion" in the sense that He allows it to happen for purposes that only He understands..

Why He allowed sin into an already perfect world, is beyond me, but.... that's another subject for another thread..

We disagree. Steering simply is not the same thing as initiating. Allowing sin and evil does not equate to being the author of sin and evil.

Also, God called the finished creation "very good", not "perfect". Big difference.

 

[Nauga]

Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” When people we know pass away, and the good ones seem to pass away relatively early in life, we often ask why. We also ask why the ones we abhor seem to live a long time.

Under Romans 8: 28, God puts things into motion for the sake of goodness. To that end, He decides who passes away and who continues to live on earth. But if good people pass away we may also ask why God doesn’t continue to let them live. The best answer is that He has a purpose for each and every one. Individually, Jeremiah 29:11 says “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare2 and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.” Romans 8: 28 extends the plans to all of us as a whole. God doesn’t expect us to understand why He does what He does in individual circumstances; Proverbs 3:5 says to trust in God with all your heart and do not lean on your understanding.

It seems that it is in the spirit of Romans 8:28 that God uses disease to make people pass away. Often, people are cured of diseases that cause others to die. For the ones who live, God has not planned for them to pass on. For the ones who pass on, God has determined that they fulfilled their purpose on earth.

Granted that more people have died from particular diseases in the past than at present. Diseases like most cancers, smallpox, pneumonia and others were sure-fire killers then. But as time goes on the survival rate among those diseases have increased dramatically. Well, God did want us to be fruitful, and some of us to that end have become fruitful by successfully treating and curing us of diseases that were surely deadly in the past. Does that mean we are thwarting God’s Plans?

God’s Plans are never thwarted. If He decides for a person to pass on, they will. Which brings us to the subject of pancreatic cancer. 95% of people who get it, pass away from it. It has no early symptoms, and there is no way to test for it. Right now, it’s a sure-fire way of God to make individuals pass on who get it. Someday the survival rate from this disease will be much higher, and God may use other means to get people to pass on. Does that mean it gets harder for God? According to Luke 1:37, nothing is impossible with God.

And we are saddened when people we love, either personally or through things like their music, pass on. But if God has judged them to live a life of goodness, they are brought into His House, where there exist good things beyond our imagination. It is a place of paradise to be enjoyed forever by those who go there. So, although the good people have left us, including the ones who’ve earned a lot of earthly respect, we can hope to see them again in God’s House if we strive for goodness, and perhaps we can, for instance, hear the same soulful music that we heard from them on earth.

And, inasmuch as what we get from the Bible, which is a good place to look since 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is breathed out by God, we can surmise that those who are called up to God’s House have fulfilled the plans that God had for them. And if we fulfill the plans God has for us individually, our separation from those whom God brings up to His house is only temporary. After all, what is a few years compared to forever?

Not to insult anybody, but you've taken a single verse and build a churchianity doctrine that contracicts the bible. For example...John10: 10 says very clearly that its the enemy that put sickness on people, not God...."10 The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, life in its fullest measure"

It would be so good for you to go back and read ALL of what the Word says then do not translate it to fit a doctrine of no faith at all. What you come up with MUST agree with the Word and it must NOT contadict the Word. Only then should you teach on how God works. On the other side of it....I can praise your enthusiasm

Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” When people we know pass away, and the good ones seem to pass away relatively early in life, we often ask why. We also ask why the ones we abhor seem to live a long time.

Under Romans 8: 28, God puts things into motion for the sake of goodness. To that end, He decides who passes away and who continues to live on earth. But if good people pass away we may also ask why God doesn’t continue to let them live. The best answer is that He has a purpose for each and every one. Individually, Jeremiah 29:11 says “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare2 and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.” Romans 8: 28 extends the plans to all of us as a whole. God doesn’t expect us to understand why He does what He does in individual circumstances; Proverbs 3:5 says to trust in God with all your heart and do not lean on your understanding.

It seems that it is in the spirit of Romans 8:28 that God uses disease to make people pass away. Often, people are cured of diseases that cause others to die. For the ones who live, God has not planned for them to pass on. For the ones who pass on, God has determined that they fulfilled their purpose on earth.

Granted that more people have died from particular diseases in the past than at present. Diseases like most cancers, smallpox, pneumonia and others were sure-fire killers then. But as time goes on the survival rate among those diseases have increased dramatically. Well, God did want us to be fruitful, and some of us to that end have become fruitful by successfully treating and curing us of diseases that were surely deadly in the past. Does that mean we are thwarting God’s Plans?

God’s Plans are never thwarted. If He decides for a person to pass on, they will. Which brings us to the subject of pancreatic cancer. 95% of people who get it, pass away from it. It has no early symptoms, and there is no way to test for it. Right now, it’s a sure-fire way of God to make individuals pass on who get it. Someday the survival rate from this disease will be much higher, and God may use other means to get people to pass on. Does that mean it gets harder for God? According to Luke 1:37, nothing is impossible with God.

And we are saddened when people we love, either personally or through things like their music, pass on. But if God has judged them to live a life of goodness, they are brought into His House, where there exist good things beyond our imagination. It is a place of paradise to be enjoyed forever by those who go there. So, although the good people have left us, including the ones who’ve earned a lot of earthly respect, we can hope to see them again in God’s House if we strive for goodness, and perhaps we can, for instance, hear the same soulful music that we heard from them on earth.

And, inasmuch as what we get from the Bible, which is a good place to look since 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is breathed out by God, we can surmise that those who are called up to God’s House have fulfilled the plans that God had for them. And if we fulfill the plans God has for us individually, our separation from those whom God brings up to His house is only temporary. After all, what is a few years compared to forever?

Whoa! I'm not looking to insult anybody here..Understand that first.


Second...You've taken a single verse from the bible and built a churchianity doctrine on it that contradicts the Bible. It contradicts Gods Word. For example Psalms 103 1-5 says God is the one who heals ALL of our diseases...and another John 10:10 The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, life in its fullest measure. So now you've accused the healer of making people sick, when its the enemy that does that...So I'll throw another verse at you...Eph 4:29 Something ALL of us are guilty of...Let no harmful language come from your mouth, only good words that are helpful in meeting the need, words that will benefit those who hear them.


It would be wise if you would go back and find out all of what the Word says on the subject...Then come back after letting the Holy Spirit teach you, and share it. Before one starts to teach anything they must know that they know what the 'Word says...And teach only what the Word says..

 

[Zmouth]

It would be so good for you to go back and read ALL of what the Word says then do not translate it to fit a doctrine of no faith at all. What you come up with MUST agree with the Word and it must NOT contadict the Word.

Was the universe framed by the written word or the spoken word?

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Heb 11:3

So if faith comes by hearing, then how does one understand that the 'worlds' were framed by the word of God if if there is only one 'world'? Of course, seeing that it is written that Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? which is no different than asking if he has told you of heavenly things and you believe not then how shall you believe, if he tells you of earthly things. (See Genesis 1:1)

Then come back after letting the Holy Spirit teach you, and share it.

So what did the Holy Spirit teach you was the good gift that those who are evil give their children?

 

[blue_ladybug]

We disagree. Steering simply is not the same thing as initiating. Allowing sin and evil does not equate to being the author of sin and evil.

Also, God called the finished creation "very good", not "perfect". Big difference.

OK, sooo.. my thought on this is.. when God introduced sin (Lucifer) into heaven, he also introduced it (the serpent) into Eden. Then He kicked it out of heaven and down to earth for US to deal with.

So can you please explain to me, HOW He is NOT the "Creator" of sin and evil? When it IS God that created it to begin with? Lucifer/satan/the serpent didn't create themselves. GOD DID. He created it, he allowed it to rebel, he allowed it into the Garden and into this world. If He didn't "author" it, who did? Some other supreme being that we don't know about?

Also, if God wanted a perfect world, why did He settle for only a "very good" one, and not an "absolutely perfect" one? I mean, it pretty much was perfect until He allowed sin into it. Just as heaven was perfect until he allowed Lucifer and the angels to rebel against Him.

 

[Dino246]

OK, sooo.. my thought on this is.. when God introduced sin (Lucifer) into heaven, he also introduced it (the serpent) into Eden. Then He kicked it out of heaven and down to earth for US to deal with.

I'd encourage you to do some more reading on the nature of the "serpent" in Genesis 3. I don't think it was a "snake".

So can you please explain to me, HOW He is NOT the "Creator" of sin and evil? When it IS God that created it to begin with? Lucifer/satan/the serpent didn't create themselves. GOD DID. He created it, he allowed it to rebel, he allowed it into the Garden and into this world. If He didn't "author" it, who did? Some other supreme being that we don't know about?

Ezekiel 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you."

That's really the only explanation given in Scripture that I'm aware of offhand.

Also, if God wanted a

perfect world, why did He settle for only a "very good" one, and not an "absolutely perfect" one? I mean, it pretty much was perfect until He allowed sin into it. Just as heaven was perfect until he allowed Lucifer and the angels to rebel against Him.

Where in Scripture does it say that God wanted a "perfect world"? Where in Scripture does it say that heaven was ever "perfect"?

Sorry, Blue, you're building beliefs on top of speculations. Get the foundation right first. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[blue_ladybug]

Let's take the fact that the whole reason for mankind is so that Jesus could save us out of the equation for a moment..

God created all the world and everything in, above, and below it. That's a fact. God saw that His creations were "very good". That's another fact. Now, let's say God wanted a PERFECT world, with PERFECT people and no sin at all. Why then, didn't He just create a perfect world to begin with?

Sin was only found in us when HE created it and let it enter heaven and the Garden. If He hadn't created sin, then we would be totally innocent, wouldn't we?

In the end, we're gonna be in a perfect world. I guess what I'm trying to say is, why didn't He just create a perfect world to begin with and keep it that way? Why make it only "very good"? Why not make it perfect and deny sin entrance into it? Why go to all the trouble to create the world, then ruin it by flood, and allow sin back in afterwards? That kinda defeats the purpose of having a "very good" earth, doesn't it?

And whether the serpent was a snake, a lizard, or a talking donkey is irrelevant. Sin STILL entered the Garden..

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'd encourage you to do some more reading on the nature of the "serpent" in Genesis 3. I don't think it was a "snake".


Ezekiel 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you."

That's really the only explanation given in Scripture that I'm aware of offhand.



Where in Scripture does it say that God wanted a "perfect world"? Where in Scripture does it say that heaven was ever "perfect"?

Sorry, Blue, you're building beliefs on top of speculations. Get the foundation right first.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Also, since God is supposedly perfect, wouldn't it make sense that His creations were also?

 

[oldethennew]

our beloved Tourist,
open your heart and believe, know, that we all reap what we sow,...

 

[rlm68]

Steering is rather ineffective with something not in motion already. God does not set evil into motion. Steering and initiating are not the same thing. If they were, then humans could rightly absolve themselves of responsibility for their sin.

Your comment is that God DOES NOT SET EVIL INTO MOTION:

Here is a story about Israel's king Ahab who would never listen to God and had done evil in God's point of view. The story ends with God sending a lying spirit to deceive Ahab so he would go into battle and DIE:

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

This is rather clear that God not only steered and also initiated the process so Ahab would die!!

 

[Dino246]

Your comment is that God DOES NOT SET EVIL INTO MOTION:

Here is a story about Israel's king Ahab who would never listen to God and had done evil in God's point of view. The story ends with God sending a lying spirit to deceive Ahab so he would go into battle and DIE:

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

This is rather clear that God not only steered and also initiated the process so Ahab would die!!

Clearly you didn't think through your position. Your opening words include, "Ahab who would never listen to God and had done evil".

So, who exactly initiated the evil in this situation? Ahab.

Have a nice day.

 

[Nauga]

Was the universe framed by the written word or the spoken word?

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Heb 11:3

So if faith comes by hearing, then how does one understand that the 'worlds' were framed by the word of God if if there is only one 'world'? Of course, seeing that it is written that Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? which is no different than asking if he has told you of heavenly things and you believe not then how shall you believe, if he tells you of earthly things. (See Genesis 1:1)



So what did the Holy Spirit teach you was the good gift that those who are evil give their children?

What do these questions have to do with what I said?

 

[Zmouth]

What do these questions have to do with what I said?

The questions were in regards to what you claimed.

What you come up with MUST agree with the Word and it must NOT contadict the Word.

Simply asked you whether the world or worlds were framed by the written or spoken word of God.

Then come back after letting the Holy Spirit teach you, and share it.

Since the Holy Spirit is given to those who are evil by their heavenly Father, which is represented in the scriptures as being the devil, then I was wondering what gift that the devil gives his children other than a lying spirit?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?Luke 11:13

The Holy Ghost (Phasma) and the Holy Spirit (Pneuma) are not the same

 

[Nehemiah6]

Since the Holy Spirit is given to those who are evil by their heavenly Father, which is represented in the scriptures as being the devil...

The Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey the Gospel, not to evildoers or evil ones. You are misapplying and misinterpreting again.

The Holy Ghost (Phasma) and the Holy Spirit (Pneuma) are not the same

This is completely false. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost and vice versa.

 

[Zmouth]

The Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey the Gospel, not to evildoers or evil ones. You are misapplying and misinterpreting again.

That isn't an interpretation , or else you would know how to give good gifts to your children, do you?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?Luke 11:13

This is completely false. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost and vice versa.

Heck if my father was satan then I wouldn't believe it either.

 

[rlm68]

Clearly you didn't think through your position. Your opening words include, "Ahab who would never listen to God and had done evil".

So, who exactly initiated the evil in this situation? Ahab.

Have a nice day.

Hmmm, splitting hairs then are we?

The idea was that God did not put such things in our ways. But not only did God bring this topic up to both angels and demons, but God instructed the demon in how to lie to Ahab. So, we have God bringing up subject matter after He reasoned the way to handle Ahab was through a demon, we have a demon volunteering, we have God instructing the demon to LIE, and we have God doing so in order to kill Ahab.

Now, had you and I done this in today's world, it would be considered pre-meditated, coercing, entrapment, 1st degree murder.

 

[NayborBear]

Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” When people we know pass away, and the good ones seem to pass away relatively early in life, we often ask why. We also ask why the ones we abhor seem to live a long time.

Under Romans 8: 28, God puts things into motion for the sake of goodness. To that end, He decides who passes away and who continues to live on earth. But if good people pass away we may also ask why God doesn’t continue to let them live. The best answer is that He has a purpose for each and every one. Individually, Jeremiah 29:11 says “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare2 and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.” Romans 8: 28 extends the plans to all of us as a whole. God doesn’t expect us to understand why He does what He does in individual circumstances; Proverbs 3:5 says to trust in God with all your heart and do not lean on your understanding.

It seems that it is in the spirit of Romans 8:28 that God uses disease to make people pass away. Often, people are cured of diseases that cause others to die. For the ones who live, God has not planned for them to pass on. For the ones who pass on, God has determined that they fulfilled their purpose on earth.

Granted that more people have died from particular diseases in the past than at present. Diseases like most cancers, smallpox, pneumonia and others were sure-fire killers then. But as time goes on the survival rate among those diseases have increased dramatically. Well, God did want us to be fruitful, and some of us to that end have become fruitful by successfully treating and curing us of diseases that were surely deadly in the past. Does that mean we are thwarting God’s Plans?

God’s Plans are never thwarted. If He decides for a person to pass on, they will. Which brings us to the subject of pancreatic cancer. 95% of people who get it, pass away from it. It has no early symptoms, and there is no way to test for it. Right now, it’s a sure-fire way of God to make individuals pass on who get it. Someday the survival rate from this disease will be much higher, and God may use other means to get people to pass on. Does that mean it gets harder for God? According to Luke 1:37, nothing is impossible with God.

And we are saddened when people we love, either personally or through things like their music, pass on. But if God has judged them to live a life of goodness, they are brought into His House, where there exist good things beyond our imagination. It is a place of paradise to be enjoyed forever by those who go there. So, although the good people have left us, including the ones who’ve earned a lot of earthly respect, we can hope to see them again in God’s House if we strive for goodness, and perhaps we can, for instance, hear the same soulful music that we heard from them on earth.

And, inasmuch as what we get from the Bible, which is a good place to look since 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is breathed out by God, we can surmise that those who are called up to God’s House have fulfilled the plans that God had for them. And if we fulfill the plans God has for us individually, our separation from those whom God brings up to His house is only temporary. After all, what is a few years compared to forever?

Isn't it "odd", that in all of "man's wisdom" and advancements in medicine and technology, as he "keeps gorging himself" on the "tree of knowledge", that God sill has ways of "playing man the fool?"

Is like we are in some kind of "spiritual centrifuge", ain't it?

1 Corinthians 15:55

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?