OSAS= House Built on Sand

[justpassinthrough]

It appears here you agree that there is a difference between repentance to salvation (for the unbeliever) and repentance to forgiveness of sins (for the born again believer).

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Repent means to turn to God in submission to Him.


This is how we are reconciled with God.


Turning away from Him, where by we wander away from Him in which we become lost, means we are no longer "just" as the 99 who need no repentance.

Those who become lost have returned to being a sinner; separated from Christ.


For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26



JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I teach that a person who is lost, needs to repent and be reconciled to God.

I do not believe anyone has claimed that the sheep did not need to be reconciled.

You appear to believe that a born again believer is no longer born again once he/she sins. And that simply is not true.

A born again believer who sins does not need to be born again a second, third, fourth (and on and on) time.

A born again believer does need to turn back to Father, and this turning back occurs as a result of the chastening of the Father as He works in the heart of His child to show His child that he/she has gone astray.

Do you think a person who is lost needs salvation?

If the person who is "lost" is an unbeliever, then yes.

If the person who is "lost" has already been born again, then no. However, the born again believer does need to turn back to Father or he/she will be living far below his/her calling in Christ Jesus (the high calling of God in Christ Jesus).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Repent means to turn to God in submission to Him.

This is how we are reconciled with God.

Turning away from Him, where by we wander away from Him in which we become lost, means we are no longer "just" as the 99 who need no repentance.

Those who become lost have returned to being a sinner; separated from Christ.

Are you saying that a person is born again and then when he/she sins, the believer has to be born again over and over?

The instruction to the unbeliever is to be born again.

Once a person is born again, he or she may be walking according to the flesh (the old man) and the instruction for the born again believer is "put off the old man" and "put on the new man".

 

[justpassinthrough]

You appear to believe that a born again believer is no longer born again once he/she sins. And that simply is not true.

I simply believe that someone who is born again can wander away and become lost.


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.




Do you believe the lost need to be saved?


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Are you saying that a person is born again and then when he/she sins, the believer has to be born again over and over?

No. We can confess our sin and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


Those who are lost have returned to being sinners; seperated from Christ.



James teaches us the process.


But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
James 1:14-15


again


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother who wanders away from the Truth has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance or face eternal death.




JPT

 

[Slayer]

And you are exactly sure who God loves and who God hates. There are some pretty good imposters out there. even in the Reformed Church so good luck with that.

Read what I said, before you wish me any luck. I don't rely on luck, I rely on sound doctrine. I said they will be exposed in the next life and I admitted we don't know who is who in this life.

 

[Grandpa]

No. We can confess our sin and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


Those who are lost have returned to being sinners; seperated from Christ.



James teaches us the process.


But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
James 1:14-15


again


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother who wanders away from the Truth has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance or face eternal death.




JPT

You are mis-understanding the parable.

The Lost sheep of the house of Israel weren't Once Saved and then Lost.

Their ancestors were the people of God. But then the children wandered away from Him.

The parable is about gathering the children that are already lost.

Nowhere does the Lord state that AFTER He saves someone they can lose that salvation.

Only by mis-understanding parables can people TRY to imply salvation can be lost.

 

[Slayer]

That is what I have been attempting to show you. God teaches us to love even our enemies. God hates sin not the sinner. You are not like God and you cannot love the sinner and hate the sin like God is able to do.

You did boast the we would laugh at the condemned being cast into the lake of fire. That is quite foolish. God has stated that He will wipe away all our tears. Tears my friend that we will shed as we witness friends, neighbors and even loved ones we have known who died apart from Christ are cast into the lake of fire. So horrific will be the scene that God will need to minister to us so we do not attempt to dive into the lake of fire to rescue them. Not that we could but it will be a terrible sight to behold.

You really do not know who God loves and what God hates.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

My Bible tells me that God hates the sinner and the sin, because the sinner is sin. I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

I will never shed a tear for my lost family members, why? because I will become fully like Christ when I receive my perfect sinless body. I will then hate sin and sinners just as much as God does, so when I see my family members being cast into the lake of fire I will rejoice that justice is being served.

I will not remember the emotions I felt in this life, God will give me a new mind and I will not remember my unsaved family members as being my brothers or parents. I will see them as any other reprobate deserving eternal torment in hell.

I think you should learn what Gods Word teaches on this topic, before you allow your fallen sinful nature to form a perverted view of who God is and why He does what he does.

 

[tourist]

My Bible tells me that God hates the sinner and the sin, because the sinner is sin. I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

I will never shed a tear for my lost family members, why? because I will become fully like Christ when I receive my perfect sinless body. I will then hate sin and sinners just as much as God does, so when I see my family members being cast into the lake of fire I will rejoice that justice is being served.

I will not remember the emotions I felt in this life, God will give me a new mind and I will not remember my unsaved family members as being my brothers or parents. I will see them as any other reprobate deserving eternal torment in hell.

I think you should learn what Gods Word teaches on this topic, before you allow your fallen sinful nature to form a perverted view of who God is and why He does what he does.

If God hates sinners than why did Jesus, who was without sin, die on the cross for them? I can't believe that you are actually going to rejoice when mom, dad, and your little sister get tossed into hell. Actually, that is kind of sick. Also, what makes you think that you would not remember lost family members? Personally, I would be sad if even one person is condemned to hell, even if it was you. That would certainly not be an occasion to rejoice. Your thought process on this is truly warped.

 

[notuptome]

My Bible tells me that God hates the sinner and the sin, because the sinner is sin. I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

I will never shed a tear for my lost family members, why? because I will become fully like Christ when I receive my perfect sinless body. I will then hate sin and sinners just as much as God does, so when I see my family members being cast into the lake of fire I will rejoice that justice is being served.

I will not remember the emotions I felt in this life, God will give me a new mind and I will not remember my unsaved family members as being my brothers or parents. I will see them as any other reprobate deserving eternal torment in hell.

I think you should learn what Gods Word teaches on this topic, before you allow your fallen sinful nature to form a perverted view of who God is and why He does what he does.

Just where do I find your hard hearted attitude in the fruits of the Holy Spirit? The haughty will be brought low. Where is the meekness and humility in your posts? We are to have the mind of Christ right now. We are to have compassion and demonstrate love toward those who are as yet unsaved. You are little more than a variant of legalism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you believe the lost need to be saved?

The lost need to be found.

Are you saying that a person is born again and then when he/she sins, the believer has to be born again over and over?

No. We can confess our sin and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

Those who are lost have returned to being sinners; seperated from Christ.

Is there no difference between a born again believer who sins and an unbeliever who sins?

It appears to me that, under your rendering of Scripture —

— the born again believer will be cast into the lake of fire if he/she does not confess his/her sin.​

​

— the unbeliever will be cast into the lake of fire.​

​

​

​

 

[Slayer]

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked <--Bible states this

also states the following...

I will laugh in the day of their derision <---is this the one you are thinking of?

Here's a few verses speaking about God laughing at unrepentant sinners.

Psalm 2:1-12
Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, ...

Psalm 37:13
But the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming.

Proverbs 1:26-28
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you, when terror strikes you like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you. Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer; they will seek me diligently but will not find me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

Not true.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You are not like Christ now.

 

[Slayer]

Just where do I find your hard hearted attitude in the fruits of the Holy Spirit? The haughty will be brought low. Where is the meekness and humility in your posts? We are to have the mind of Christ right now. We are to have compassion and demonstrate love toward those who are as yet unsaved. You are little more than a variant of legalism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love. The world is full of false Christians who embrace ever vile sin, in order to be accepted by the wicked. My Bible tells me it's the opposite, it tells me sinners are the ones who need to conform to the Gospel.

Yes I know the Gospel is highly offensive to everyone except for the true believers, we go out on the street and confront sinners with the harsh truth of the Gospel. We don't win many over for Christ, but it's not our job to win hearts for Christ, our job is to proclaim the awful truth to a hell bound fallen world.

 

[justpassinthrough]

You are mis-understanding the parable.

The Lost sheep of the house of Israel weren't Once Saved and then Lost.

Their ancestors were the people of God. But then the children wandered away from Him.

The parable is about gathering the children that are already lost.

Nowhere does the Lord state that AFTER He saves someone they can lose that salvation.

Only by mis-understanding parables can people TRY to imply salvation can be lost.

I never said "salvation can be lost".

Go back through all my post's and show me where I said salvation can be lost.


Jesus Christ is our salvation.


Jesus Christ can not be lost.


The person who is following Him can indeed become lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.


They are his sheep.

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

It matters not if Jew or Gentile.



A sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, is a sinner, separated from the owner, in need of repentance in order to be reconciled.

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Repent means to turn to God in submission to Him.


This is how we are reconciled with God.


Turning away from Him, where by we wander away from Him in which we become lost, means we are no longer "just" as the 99 who need no repentance.

Those who become lost have returned to being a sinner; separated from Christ.


For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26



JPT

 

[Slayer]

Not true.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You are not like Christ now.

christian means Christ-like thank you

 

[ljs]

Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love. The world is full of false Christians who embrace ever vile sin, in order to be accepted by the wicked. My Bible tells me it's the opposite, it tells me sinners are the ones who need to conform to the Gospel.

Yes I know the Gospel is highly offensive to everyone except for the true believers, we go out on the street and confront sinners with the harsh truth of the Gospel. We don't win many over for Christ, but it's not our job to win hearts for Christ, our job is to proclaim the awful truth to a hell bound fallen world.

When you street preach is that what you do ? SHOUT at people to repent ? What do you believe repent means ?

I think you should lovingly share the Gospel with them , tell them that Christ died for their sin , all of it , was buried and rose again from the grave , then explain how they can be saved by placing their faith in Christ alone

 

[justpassinthrough]

Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love.

Amen!


And here is the biblical proof of what you say -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Turning a sinner back to God [repent] is the work of love, for love covers a multitude of sins.

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Keep up the excellent work!




JPT

 

[Slayer]

When you street preach is that what you do ? SHOUT at people to repent ? What do you believe repent means ?

I think you should lovingly share the Gospel with them , tell them that Christ died for their sin , all of it , was buried and rose again from the grave , then explain how they can be saved by placing their faith in Christ alone

Our pastor teaches us to do it differently, he tells us to convict the people of their sins. So the first thing we do is ask them if they think they are a good person, they usually say something like "well I try to be the best I can be, but sometimes I make mistakes". We then explain that God has much higher expectations of us and if we don't live up to them, He will punish us by casting us into hell.

Once we explain that everyone falls short and that's why Jesus came into the world, they either stay and listen or they just walk away saying that's your religion I'm an Atheist or Buddhist or Muslim or whatever. We don't waste any more time on those people, we concentrate on the one who continues to listen.

We have found that around 95% of people who claim to believe in Jesus, don't like the Jesus we present. They all love the softly spoken pretty boy Jesus but they don't like the one who casts sinners into hell to burn.

 

[UnderGrace]

Read what I said, before you wish me any luck. I don't rely on luck, I rely on sound doctrine. I said they will be exposed in the next life and I admitted we don't know who is who in this life.

I will love everyone God loves and hate everyone God hates, pure and simple

Oh so this is in the next life then.

Okay, that just makes it more strange