Noncononical Biblical texts
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Enoch is legit IMO, at least the first 36 chapters, 1 Enoch os compiled from 5 DIFFERENT manuscripts, from my studies only the first 36 are legit. 2 and 3 Enoch are not legit IMO. Also there is a Hebrew Mat that is the most original in content even though it is not considered "connonical Matthew" There are no major divergences in doctrine but in a number place there are vital differences in wording and grammar.
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I agree, most of them are not inspired by YHWH. I actually own evey "OT" and "NT" apocraphal writing that I could ever find and multiple translations of the interestiong ones, most of them are false and not interesting IMO. IMO it is a pre-requisite to learn the Torah and the Words of Messiah so well that they are in our memory, then when we read other writings we can easily and instantly know if anything contradicts these, if it does I discard it as inspired by YHWH. Just a rule of thumb I use.
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What about 1 Enoch (36 chapters)
Jude quotes from this, is this wrong?
Jude 1:14-15, “Ḥanoḵ (Enoch), the seventh from Aḏam, also prophesied of these, saying, “See, יהוה comes with His myriads of set-apart ones, to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”
1 Enoch 1:3-9, “And I [Enoch] took up with a parable (saying), “The God of the universe, the Holy Great One, will come forth from his dwelling. And from there he will march upon Mount Sinai and appear in his camp emerging from heaven with a mighty power. And everyone shall be afraid, and Watchers shall quiver. And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. Mountains and high places will fall down and be frightened. And high hills shall be made low; and they shall melt like a honeycomb before the flame. And earth shall be rent asunder, and all that is upon the earth shall perish. And there shall be a judgment upon all, (including) the righteous. And to all the righteous he will grant peace. He will preserve the elect, and kindness shall be upon them. They shall all belong to God and they shall prosper and be blessed; and the light of God shall shine unto them. Behold, he will arrive with ten million [ten thousand times a thousand] of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.”
Jude quotes from this, is this wrong?
Jude 1:14-15, “Ḥanoḵ (Enoch), the seventh from Aḏam, also prophesied of these, saying, “See, יהוה comes with His myriads of set-apart ones, to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”
1 Enoch 1:3-9, “And I [Enoch] took up with a parable (saying), “The God of the universe, the Holy Great One, will come forth from his dwelling. And from there he will march upon Mount Sinai and appear in his camp emerging from heaven with a mighty power. And everyone shall be afraid, and Watchers shall quiver. And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. Mountains and high places will fall down and be frightened. And high hills shall be made low; and they shall melt like a honeycomb before the flame. And earth shall be rent asunder, and all that is upon the earth shall perish. And there shall be a judgment upon all, (including) the righteous. And to all the righteous he will grant peace. He will preserve the elect, and kindness shall be upon them. They shall all belong to God and they shall prosper and be blessed; and the light of God shall shine unto them. Behold, he will arrive with ten million [ten thousand times a thousand] of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.”
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Chapter 1 of Enoch is very similar to both Daniel and Revelations concerning the end times.
I also know biblical scholars finally have agreed that the Gospel of Thomas should be considered scripture.
Twice in the Old Testament (Joshua and king David) mention the Book of Jasher. One would think if that Book of Jasher existed during the time of Joshua and David, then it should be considered scripture for us.
There are many texts that should have been added. It seems when we have questions we can't find answers in our current Bible, those answers can be found in Books considered Gnostic. And had we just added them all together in one book, we might have better answers than we do now!!
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I agree on Dan and Rev.
There are 2 version of "gospel of Thomas" that I know of 1 of them that I have studied I do not beleive to be inspired by YHWH. JMO.
From my understanding the "Book of Jasher" we have today is not the same "Book of Jasher" back in that day, but I am not fully studied in Jasher to say for sure. That it has some similarities and some differences.
There are 2 version of "gospel of Thomas" that I know of 1 of them that I have studied I do not beleive to be inspired by YHWH. JMO.
From my understanding the "Book of Jasher" we have today is not the same "Book of Jasher" back in that day, but I am not fully studied in Jasher to say for sure. That it has some similarities and some differences.
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No it is not wrong, but at the same time there are certain statements in Enoch which cannot be supported by Scripture. There is also the possibility that Jude was quoting Enoch by divine revelation, whereas 1 Enoch could be a *pseudepigraphical* book (falsely attributed to biblical characters). In any event, Enoch cannot be regarded as Scripture, although it does have some very insightful passages.
J
the bible names 20 - 30 books that are not part of todays canon. so we know the canon we have today is incomplete. the bible even tells us to seek out these books when we want to know more, whats so sad is if you seek like the bible tells you to do, you will have many come out and tell you to ignore them and they are part of a Satanic deception.
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Most go by what is traditionall accepted rather than stand on His word. Just look at peoples doctrines, if the doctrine is not accped in the main stream it is wrong according to the world....
Psalm 143:8, “Let me hear Your loving-commitment in the morning, For in You I have put my trust; Let me know the way in which I should walk, For I have lifted up my being to You.”
Psalm 143:8, “Let me hear Your loving-commitment in the morning, For in You I have put my trust; Let me know the way in which I should walk, For I have lifted up my being to You.”
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The Bible, all 66 books, already gave us the information we need, and tells us the creation, God's character, the plan of redemption, and the saints dwelling with God for eternity, and tells the whole history of mankind, every kingdom, and what is going on now, which He said He identifies Himself as the one true God for showing us the end from the beginning, and all the history of mankind, which no other religion or person can do.
What other books do we need.
I tend to think that some people try to pass off books as inspired by God by repeating, and telling, what has already been written, and told.
If I wanted to I could write a book and claim it as inspired by telling what the Bible tells, but wording it differently, and trying to make it appear as if it is coming from an intelligent God.
Abraham said to the rich man in hell if a person does not hear the words of Moses, does not believe them, they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them, which Abraham pointed out the words of Moses as being important, not some other books.
Like Mary Baxter saying she had a revelation of hell, and what it is like, and describes hell and what goes on there, but she did not.
If God wanted to tell us a detailed description of hell it would be in the Bible, like John gave us a description of heaven.
God only told us what needed to be known of hell to avoid it, and that is it is dark and hot, which how can Mary give us a detailed description of hell as she did when it is pitch black, and the people that were rebellious will not be able to see anything anyway.
But it is like Abraham telling the rich man, if they do hear the words of the Bible they will not believe even if someone wrote a book and said they know the description of hell and that is exists so avoid it.
If they do not believe the words of the Bible they will not hear the other biblical books that are not part of the Bible.
The Bible tells us all we need to know, what else is there to tell, and what do we need to hear from other books to convince us the Bible with the 66 books are true.
Now the Bible does tell in Jude that Enoch gave a prophesy of the Lord coming with the saints to execute judgment on the wicked, but that does not mean that He wrote a book, for many people know that the Lord would come to execute judgement on the wicked, even the least of the least of the saints know that, and back then.
That is a given that all saints should understand that God is going to judge the wicked, so if they repeat it, it is saying something common sense wise among the saints.
I do not believe that Enoch would write a book at the time he lived, and it would make more sense for Elijah to write a book, for where is his book, and Samson's book, where is it at, and Noah's book, for why leave that great man out, and John the Baptist's book, for he gets no love and no book, when Jesus considered him the greatest person to ever be born of women, even greater than Mary, according to the flesh, and John the Baptist gets no book.
Eze 14:12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Eze 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Some people would like to think that Job did not exist, and the book a fluke, but this indicates that he did exist as God mentions Job along with Noah and Daniel, as righteous men.
I believe that the Bible with the 66 books is what God gave us as inspired, and it covers everything we need to know about truth.
For what are we supposed to have 1,000,000 books before we get it in to our head the truth of God, and His character, and love towards us, and that we are sinners in need of salvation.
And if people say God is in control, and things go according to what He wants, then why would they doubt that there should be more books in the organized Bible with the 66 books, for if God is in control and things go according to what He wants they would be along with the 66 books.
Let me put it in Sesame Street terms, one of these books is not like the others, one of these books is not the same.
It could be the apocrypha is books with a pagan twist on them, for some people do interpret the Bible according to paganism, and some it is their foundation of the interpretation of scriptures.
Look at the things the Catholic Church does and believes, which you can see paganism influencing her.
I did not look in to those other books for I did not have a desire, and I read through the Bible so I surely have even less of a desire to read them, but I do not understand what they could tell me that would benefit me, or give me better understanding of truth that is already present in the Bible.
What other books do we need.
I tend to think that some people try to pass off books as inspired by God by repeating, and telling, what has already been written, and told.
If I wanted to I could write a book and claim it as inspired by telling what the Bible tells, but wording it differently, and trying to make it appear as if it is coming from an intelligent God.
Abraham said to the rich man in hell if a person does not hear the words of Moses, does not believe them, they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them, which Abraham pointed out the words of Moses as being important, not some other books.
Like Mary Baxter saying she had a revelation of hell, and what it is like, and describes hell and what goes on there, but she did not.
If God wanted to tell us a detailed description of hell it would be in the Bible, like John gave us a description of heaven.
God only told us what needed to be known of hell to avoid it, and that is it is dark and hot, which how can Mary give us a detailed description of hell as she did when it is pitch black, and the people that were rebellious will not be able to see anything anyway.
But it is like Abraham telling the rich man, if they do hear the words of the Bible they will not believe even if someone wrote a book and said they know the description of hell and that is exists so avoid it.
If they do not believe the words of the Bible they will not hear the other biblical books that are not part of the Bible.
The Bible tells us all we need to know, what else is there to tell, and what do we need to hear from other books to convince us the Bible with the 66 books are true.
Now the Bible does tell in Jude that Enoch gave a prophesy of the Lord coming with the saints to execute judgment on the wicked, but that does not mean that He wrote a book, for many people know that the Lord would come to execute judgement on the wicked, even the least of the least of the saints know that, and back then.
That is a given that all saints should understand that God is going to judge the wicked, so if they repeat it, it is saying something common sense wise among the saints.
I do not believe that Enoch would write a book at the time he lived, and it would make more sense for Elijah to write a book, for where is his book, and Samson's book, where is it at, and Noah's book, for why leave that great man out, and John the Baptist's book, for he gets no love and no book, when Jesus considered him the greatest person to ever be born of women, even greater than Mary, according to the flesh, and John the Baptist gets no book.
Eze 14:12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Eze 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Some people would like to think that Job did not exist, and the book a fluke, but this indicates that he did exist as God mentions Job along with Noah and Daniel, as righteous men.
I believe that the Bible with the 66 books is what God gave us as inspired, and it covers everything we need to know about truth.
For what are we supposed to have 1,000,000 books before we get it in to our head the truth of God, and His character, and love towards us, and that we are sinners in need of salvation.
And if people say God is in control, and things go according to what He wants, then why would they doubt that there should be more books in the organized Bible with the 66 books, for if God is in control and things go according to what He wants they would be along with the 66 books.
Let me put it in Sesame Street terms, one of these books is not like the others, one of these books is not the same.
It could be the apocrypha is books with a pagan twist on them, for some people do interpret the Bible according to paganism, and some it is their foundation of the interpretation of scriptures.
Look at the things the Catholic Church does and believes, which you can see paganism influencing her.
I did not look in to those other books for I did not have a desire, and I read through the Bible so I surely have even less of a desire to read them, but I do not understand what they could tell me that would benefit me, or give me better understanding of truth that is already present in the Bible.
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Judging by the posts so far, there seems to be a lot of confusion around the term, "canonical".
It means "accepted as genuine". The longer definition (2nd sense) is "included in the list of sacred books officially accepted as genuine."
Right away we have three issues: what is "genuine"; who makes such "official" determinations; and on what basis are such determinations made?
"Genuine" in this context means that the book was written by one of the first generation of apostles or by one of their associates.
Usually it is a denominational body with larger influence than the local church. Most local churches simply accept the 66 books without fussing over it. Generally, all Western protestant church bodies accept the 66 books as canon. The Catholics, Orthodox, and others have slightly different lists of books.
The determination is made based on the content of the books. Do they line up with accepted Scripture, do they glorify God and Christ, do they represent additional truth not found in the existing books? There are other questions.
The apocryphal and pseudepigraphical books are not considered "canonical" by most churches. They are secondary documents, not Scripture, so any claim that Scripture is "missing" certain books is incorrect. Some readers might find them interesting, but no reader should treat them as instructive for life in the same way the canonical books are.
It means "accepted as genuine". The longer definition (2nd sense) is "included in the list of sacred books officially accepted as genuine."
Right away we have three issues: what is "genuine"; who makes such "official" determinations; and on what basis are such determinations made?
"Genuine" in this context means that the book was written by one of the first generation of apostles or by one of their associates.
Usually it is a denominational body with larger influence than the local church. Most local churches simply accept the 66 books without fussing over it. Generally, all Western protestant church bodies accept the 66 books as canon. The Catholics, Orthodox, and others have slightly different lists of books.
The determination is made based on the content of the books. Do they line up with accepted Scripture, do they glorify God and Christ, do they represent additional truth not found in the existing books? There are other questions.
The apocryphal and pseudepigraphical books are not considered "canonical" by most churches. They are secondary documents, not Scripture, so any claim that Scripture is "missing" certain books is incorrect. Some readers might find them interesting, but no reader should treat them as instructive for life in the same way the canonical books are.
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